150 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackrising]

Rawgrim wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon pops up in the conversation. that told me that if i pick that one, the character will become romancable. What this actually does is remove the gender choice, in a way. You get the same romances no matter what gender you play. Leaving that choice only a cosmetic choice. It also made me feel like Hawke was a sexual Mary Sue. Everyone was into himher no matter what.

I`d rather have pure gay characters and straight ones. Makes the whole thing more belivable, and not a dating sim that just aims to cater to everyones prefferances.

The heart icon popped up in conversations with Aveline as well. And yet you never had a chance with her.

Quite right. But she was in love with Donnic, so that bit was no problem. I bet you if Donnic wasn`t in the game, Aveline would have the sexuality I wanted her to have, though.

Wasn't there an option to flirt with her prior to that? I honestly don't remember.
But the point is that the heart icon does not guarantee success. It means you have the option to flirt with that character. Whether he or she responds positively is another matter altogether.

[cephasjames]

Rawgrim wrote...

cephasjames wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon pops up in the conversation. that told me that if i pick that one, the character will become romancable. What this actually does is remove the gender choice, in a way. You get the same romances no matter what gender you play. Leaving that choice only a cosmetic choice. It also made me feel like Hawke was a sexual Mary Sue. Everyone was into himher no matter what.

I`d rather have pure gay characters and straight ones. Makes the whole thing more belivable, and not a dating sim that just aims to cater to everyones prefferances.

In that one playthrough those LIs are gay and straight. If your PC is male, Anders is gay and Merril is straight. In that one playthrough there is no choice of Anders being straight and Merril being gay.

Yup, and that makes my PC feel like a sexuall Mary Sue. The love interests just change their sexuality in order to cater to me as a player.

No. In that one playthrough they do not. In that one playthrough if your PC is male, Anders is gay. Period. He doesn't become straight because you don't choose to make him your LI. He remains gay, but chooses to no longer pursue you as an LI.

[Rawgrim]

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon pops up in the conversation. that told me that if i pick that one, the character will become romancable. What this actually does is remove the gender choice, in a way. You get the same romances no matter what gender you play. Leaving that choice only a cosmetic choice. It also made me feel like Hawke was a sexual Mary Sue. Everyone was into himher no matter what.

I`d rather have pure gay characters and straight ones. Makes the whole thing more belivable, and not a dating sim that just aims to cater to everyones prefferances.

The heart icon popped up in conversations with Aveline as well. And yet you never had a chance with her.

Quite right. But she was in love with Donnic, so that bit was no problem. I bet you if Donnic wasn`t in the game, Aveline would have the sexuality I wanted her to have, though.

Wasn't there an option to flirt with her prior to that? I honestly don't remember.
But the point is that the heart icon does not guarantee success. It means you have the option to flirt with that character. Whether he or she responds positively is another matter altogether.

I don`t remember if it was there before, or not. But given how linear the story was, flirting with her wouldn`t have lead to anything anyway, since Donnic is in the game.

[cephasjames]

Pheonix57 wrote...

cephasjames wrote...
In that one playthrough those LIs are gay and straight. If your PC is male, Anders is gay and Merril is straight. In that one playthrough there is no choice of Anders being straight and Merril being gay.

See, I have one issue with that though: If I play a girl, and I romance Isabela, does that make her gay even though she quite obviously says she's been with men, and hits on Fenris? in that situation, I'm not metagaming, and Isabela is still bisexual.

In this instance, because it is a part of this one story, she is bisexual. But that's because she's bisexual in the story. If she never said she was bisexual in the story then she would be gay in the story.

[Rawgrim]

cephasjames wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

cephasjames wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon pops up in the conversation. that told me that if i pick that one, the character will become romancable. What this actually does is remove the gender choice, in a way. You get the same romances no matter what gender you play. Leaving that choice only a cosmetic choice. It also made me feel like Hawke was a sexual Mary Sue. Everyone was into himher no matter what.

I`d rather have pure gay characters and straight ones. Makes the whole thing more belivable, and not a dating sim that just aims to cater to everyones prefferances.

In that one playthrough those LIs are gay and straight. If your PC is male, Anders is gay and Merril is straight. In that one playthrough there is no choice of Anders being straight and Merril being gay.

Yup, and that makes my PC feel like a sexuall Mary Sue. The love interests just change their sexuality in order to cater to me as a player.

No. In that one playthrough they do not. In that one playthrough if your PC is male, Anders is gay. Period. He doesn't become straight because you don't choose to make him your LI. He remains gay, but chooses to no longer pursue you as an LI.

And this is better, how? Males turns gay if i am male, and women turns straight. All in order to cater to me as a player. That makes my character a sexual Mary Sue. the game just "edits" the romance options in order to let all of them fall into my lap.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Rawgrim wrote...
And this is better, how? Males turns gay if i am male, and women turns straight. All in order to cater to me as a player. That makes my character a sexual Mary Sue. the game just "edits" the romance options in order to let all of them fall into my lap.

I really highly doubt you thinking the PC is a "sexual Mary Sue" is somehow a concern that needs to be addressed, since the PC always has an element of "I'm better than everyone else because I'm the main character," not only when it comes to romances.  Everyone loves to treat their PC as a special snowflake, anyway.

[Rawgrim]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
And this is better, how? Males turns gay if i am male, and women turns straight. All in order to cater to me as a player. That makes my character a sexual Mary Sue. the game just "edits" the romance options in order to let all of them fall into my lap.

I really highly doubt you thinking the PC is a "sexual Mary Sue" is somehow a concern that needs to be addressed, since the PC always has an element of "I'm better than everyone else because I'm the main character," not only when it comes to romances.  Everyone loves to treat their PC as a special snowflake, anyway.

Its not that big of a concern, no. But it does mess up the immersion abit, and the belivability.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its not that big of a concern, no. But it does mess up the immersion abit, and the belivability.

Doesn't for me, especially since only Isabela and Anders are the ones who venture to flirt with Hawke first.  Merrill and Fenris both have to be initiated by the player.   Also, what's this about Anders being gay only with male Hawke?  He never said he was exclusively into women.  He never said he was exclusively into men, either.  

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Rawgrim]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its not that big of a concern, no. But it does mess up the immersion abit, and the belivability.

Doesn't for me, especially since only Isabela and Anders are the ones who venture to flirt with Hawke first.  Merrill and Fenris both have to be initiated by the player.   Also, what's this about Anders being gay only with male Hawke?  He never said he was exclusively into women.  He never said he was exclusively into men, either.  

The love icon is still there. that tells me that if I pick that option, the characters sexuality will be catered to me. Its like a spotlight. If you want decide this characters sexuality, press this button.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon is still there. that tells me that if I pick that option, the characters sexuality will be catered to me. Its like a spotlight. If you want decide this characters sexuality, press this button.

Just because the icon is there doesn't mean that it will always follow through, however.  It just means Hawke could say a flirty comment.   Not all flirty comments in the game end up in a romantic encounter.

By your logic, Hawke could be diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive all at once merely because the options are all there.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Volus Warlord]

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

Modifié par Volus Warlord, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:35 .

[cephasjames]

Rawgrim wrote...

And this is better, how? Males turns gay if i am male, and women turns straight. All in order to cater to me as a player. That makes my character a sexual Mary Sue. the game just "edits" the romance options in order to let all of them fall into my lap.

The point your missing is that in individual stories no one "turns" anything. The only time there is "turning" is when people metagame and compare and combine elements from multiple stories. In single stories, which are separate and unique entities not a collective of every single possibility within the game, LIs are only one sexuality, which relates to the PCs sexuality and gender. Calling LIs bisexual in single stories is factually false.

If you were to pick up a book you had never read before and one of the characters was straight, is he then straight, gay or bisexual? In that one story he's straight. It's the exact same thinng for DA2.

Modifié par cephasjames, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Yes all bi ... because it's really annoying having to mod your game so that you can romance Alistair, and even then, he still refers to your Warden as a woman lol So annoying.

[Rawgrim]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The love icon is still there. that tells me that if I pick that option, the characters sexuality will be catered to me. Its like a spotlight. If you want decide this characters sexuality, press this button.

Just because the icon is there doesn't mean that it will always follow through, however.  It just means Hawke could say a flirty comment.   Not all flirty comments in the game end up in a romantic encounter.

By your logic, Hawke could be diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive all at once merely because the options are all there.

With Aveline, it leads to nothing. she has "plot-armour" when it comes to romances. With everyone else, it leads to a romance.

[Rawgrim]

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

So much this. You hit the nail on the head.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

So much this. You hit the nail on the head.

Aaaand we've hit the thinly veiled homophobia part of the thread.  It's all downhill from here.

[Rawgrim]

cephasjames wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

And this is better, how? Males turns gay if i am male, and women turns straight. All in order to cater to me as a player. That makes my character a sexual Mary Sue. the game just "edits" the romance options in order to let all of them fall into my lap.

The point your missing is that in individual stories no one "turns" anything. The only time there is "turning" is when people metagame and compare and combine elements from multiple stories. In single stories, which are separate and unique entities not a collective of every single possibility within the game, LIs are only one sexuality, which relates to the PCs sexuality and gender. Calling LIs bisexual in single stories is factually false.

If you were to pick up a book you had never read before and one of the characters was straight, is he then straight, gay or bisexual? In that one story he's straight. It's the exact same thinng for DA2.

seeing the love icon in your first playthrough is not metagaming.

[sharkboy421]

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

Except they aren't bi.  Using Merrill and Fenris as examples, their orientation is completely unknown and is never touched upon.  The only way you find out is if you romance them.  If Lady Hawke decides she likes Merrill and tries to flirt with her and Merrill reciprocates, Merrill is gay in that play through.  While in the next one if male Hawke does the same thing, Merrill is straight.  Different play throughs are "parallel universes" if you will.  They have zero influence on each other.  Merrill might be gay in one and Fenris is straight.  In another its the opposite.  Or any combination you want.  They orientation is left up to the player to define but I don't LI like this as being "bi".

[Rinji the Bearded]

Rawgrim wrote...

With Aveline, it leads to nothing. she has "plot-armour" when it comes to romances. With everyone else, it leads to a romance.

FemHawkes can hit on Varric as well, to no avail.

[Battlebloodmage]

Rawgrim wrote...


The love icon is still there. that tells me that if I pick that option, the characters sexuality will be catered to me. Its like a spotlight. If you want decide this characters sexuality, press this button.

So? Just because it breaks immersion for you doesn't mean that it breaks immersion for everyone else. It's a subplot that completely optional. The game is still the same regardless. Unless you care about romance, it shouldn't even be that important. The option is not catered to you but cater to those who want that option. Yes, it breaks immersion for you, so what? The game is made for everyone to enjoy, not to cater to individual needs. 

[Harle Cerulean]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

So much this. You hit the nail on the head.

Aaaand we've hit the thinly veiled homophobia part of the thread.  It's all downhill from here.

And the outright biphobia.  "I'm not saying all bi people are sl*ts, but the only characters who are believable as bi are sl*ts, because that's what bi people are."

[Battlebloodmage]

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

How should bi people act? I think I have been doing it wrong somehow.

[Rawgrim]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

NO

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Writing- Wrecks character integrity. Some characters (Jack, Izzy, Kelly Chambers) are very plausible and believable as bi, mainly because they are all classless tramps that will literally **** anything. (Not saying all bi people are classless tramps). However, MOST CHARACTERS ARE NOT PLAUSIBLE AS BI. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't fit in with their picture. "Lolbi" weakens the strongest point of Bioware games.

Gameplay- Immersion breaking gay dude hitting on you out of nowhere. Cmon. That's just stupid.

So much this. You hit the nail on the head.

Aaaand we've hit the thinly veiled homophobia part of the thread.  It's all downhill from here.

Yeah...play the homophibia card, please. As soon as someone finds that everyone being bisexual is bad for the immersion, the homophibia card is played. Same type of argument would be used when playing the racist card. Don`t want Jim Carey to play shaft? Must be a racist then.

If you look at some earlier posts in this thread I clearly stated that I would rather have characters that are gay, than everyone being bisexual.

[cephasjames]

nm

Modifié par cephasjames, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


The love icon is still there. that tells me that if I pick that option, the characters sexuality will be catered to me. Its like a spotlight. If you want decide this characters sexuality, press this button.

So? Just because it breaks immersion for you doesn't mean that it breaks immersion for everyone else. It's a subplot that completely optional. The game is still the same regardless. Unless you care about romance, it shouldn't even be that important. The option is not catered to you but cater to those who want that option. Yes, it breaks immersion for you, so what? The game is made for everyone to enjoy, not to cater to individual needs. 

Then they should call the game a dating sim, and not an rpg. Rpgs are about immersion and making choices as a character. Not making choices about the sexuality of everyone you meet in the game.