227 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

withneelandi wrote...

Its an odd one, personally I'd completed DAO multiple times before I even had an xbox live or BSN log in, so how do people like me factor into those stats?

Did you go into the menu options and turn off metric reporting to BioWare?

If you did not do this, and you had an internet connection, you were counted.  

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lightning Cloud wrote...

Wait a second... Did someone say Origins had an art style?

It's called "Realist".  I really like it.

There is nothing "realistic" about Origins' art style.  The Witcher 1-2 is a much better example of realism.

Origins was really brown, with nonsensical armor and clothing, enfused with a color palette stolen from the 1970s, and exceptionally terrible lighting.  

I hope DA3 ends up being the first Dragon Age game to actually put it all together and look good.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[withneelandi]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have never finished Skyrim; even though I have played that game, everyday, since it came out, at least an hour or so, on average (usually late at night, to wind down).

Bethesda's games are the worst games for assessing quality based on whether or not someone completed the main plot. I'd argue the main plot for those types of games are included simply for the people that find a game lacking if it doesn't have one.

Very true,

I've never completed Oblivian but i've sank well over 100 hours into it and done loads in the game, I hit a natural point where that game story just ended for me, and stopped playing far short of the main quests end, but to me with my character, the dark brotherhood and theif guild was that games "main plot" so i'd show up on those figures for Obvivion despite playing it to death and loosing weeks of my life to it.

[Montana]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have never finished Skyrim; even though I have played that game, everyday, since it came out, at least an hour or so, on average (usually late at night, to wind down).

Bethesda's games are the worst games for assessing quality based on whether or not someone completed the main plot. I'd argue the main plot for those types of games are included simply for the people that find a game lacking if it doesn't have one.

You can't really "finish" a TES game (especially with the radiant system), you just stop playing at some point when you're satisfied.
I consider a playthrough "finished" when I've doen the quest chains I've planned for that character (my mage won't join the Companions etc). Or when I've achieved a goal for that character.

Most of my characters haven't even touched the MQ.

[eyesofastorm]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I would argue that all roleplaying games are similar in this regard.  Whether someone completes the main plot tells us nothing of value.

It tells us whether or not the main plot is compelling and i think that is valuable.  I really enjoyed Skyrim... right up until the point when I finished the main plot and was completely underwhelmed.  Does that make the game a failure?  Not at all.  Does that diminish all of those hours of enjoyment prior to the completion of the main plot?  Hell no!  However, I must say that I have little interest in going back to it with the DLC's.  I think if the main plot had been more compelling, I might have been able to justify going through game again and experiencing that new content if I felt like the ultimate goal I was building towards, the main plot, was worth the effort.  I enjoy the journey, but for me, the journey is about getting ready for the big finale.  

[withneelandi]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

withneelandi wrote...

Its an odd one, personally I'd completed DAO multiple times before I even had an xbox live or BSN log in, so how do people like me factor into those stats?

Did you go into the menu options and turn off metric reporting to BioWare?

If you did not do this, and you had an internet connection, you were counted.  

For a long time my xbox hadn't gone near and internet connection, it has no wireless and I didn't have an ethernet for it for a long time. It only did because I decided I needed an xbox live to get the most out of dark souls, so depending on when they measured it, i might well not be.

I doubt i'm the only gamer who's console won'y have been internet enabled in any way shape or form either, and those sorts of gamers will tend to be the ones who play single player games like origins.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lightning Cloud wrote...

Wait a second... Did someone say Origins had an art style?

It's called "Realist".  I really like it.

There is nothing "realistic" about Origins' art style.  The Witcher 1-2 is a much better example of realism.

Those also have excellent art (terrible gameplay, but fine art).

DAO is realist particularly in its muted colours.

[deuce985]

I really hate statistics like this. I really do hope Bioware doesn't look at something like this and say, "Wow! I guess this means we need to make a shorter game because the majority didn't complete it." I know they're smarter than that but it makes me wonder how much it influences design decisions.

Length doesn't necessarily prevent a player from completing the game. When Bioware looks at stats like this, how do they make educated design decisions when they don't have any reasoning behind why a person stopped playing? Could be something simple like pacing? Length? Life got in the way? School? Boring plot? Boring combat? It could be any number of things. The only thing Bioware can do is make a guess as to what they need to "improve" in their game to keep people interested to the ending.

I believe I saw that stat and it also said more people completed DA2. I believe a big reason for that is the pacing is MUCH better in DA2 and that's likely why more people finished the game(just my personal opinion). I guess my question is, does Bioware use much more research data to make speculated guesses as to why a person didn't finish the game?

What about people who turn uploaded feedback off? How does Bioware know that number would actually shoot up to 62% if everyone was forced to upload? My point is, surveys, stats, and market research always are incredibly flawed. Most of the time they don't tell you the motivation behind the statastics. It might not be anything wrong with Bioware's game as to why a person didn't finish...

Modifié par deuce985, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:32 .

[fchopin]

I could only play about 6 hours of Skyrim, after that i was bored so stopped playing.

It's a good game but not for me, i need a story like Risen, you find yourself on the beach and then you explore.

[Sylvius the Mad]

eyesofastorm wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I would argue that all roleplaying games are similar in this regard.  Whether someone completes the main plot tells us nothing of value.

It tells us whether or not the main plot is compelling and i think that is valuable.  I really enjoyed Skyrim... right up until the point when I finished the main plot and was completely underwhelmed.  Does that make the game a failure?  Not at all.  Does that diminish all of those hours of enjoyment prior to the completion of the main plot?  Hell no!  However, I must say that I have little interest in going back to it with the DLC's.  I think if the main plot had been more compelling, I might have been able to justify going through game again and experiencing that new content if I felt like the ultimate goal I was building towards, the main plot, was worth the effort.  I enjoy the journey, but for me, the journey is about getting ready for the big finale.  

I enjoy roleplaying games most when I don't know what the main plot is.  And I still have no idea what the main plot is in Skyrim.

That's part of why I think Baldur's Gate was such a brilliant game.  The main plot is hidden from the player until quite late in the authored narrative.

And, for the record, I have never completed Baldur's Gate.  Not once.

[iOnlySignIn]

Oh I thought this thread is about the silent majority who are not Cullen fans.

[hoorayforicecream]

fchopin wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

fchopin wrote...

I think the figures are wrong.

The reason it shows only a small percentage of people finished the game is because people played the game many times but only completed the game some of the times.

The figure is whether someone finished the game or not. You can't say 'the figure is wrong' and then complain it measures the wrong thing.

They know if someone finished the game or not.
They know if someone quit the game and then restarted.
They know where people quit the game.

To be correct it would have to show how many times each unique serial number game was completed and only counted one time even if that unique game had several completions.
 
How do you know what system was used to do the counting?

Most modern games have telemetry hooks built in. DAO is no exception. The data it provides is incredibly useful, because it shows where players spend their time, how much time they spend there, and what sort of decisions they make. If your game is connected to the internet and you haven't turned off the option to send Bioware anonymous information, you're sending them information whenever hooks are hit, such as starting a new game, choosing an origin, finishing an origin, recruiting a character, etc. They can put hooks on whatever they feel is useful information, and tie it to that bioware/EA/origin/XBL/PSN account you sign in with.

It might not be 100% accurate, but the number of data points are in the millions. The margin of error is extremely low.

[rapscallioness]

Well, I can only play Bethesda games for a few hours...because they make me physically ill. First, or third person. I tried Fallout 3, Oblivion and Skyrim. Each time I thought things might be different. But no. Bethesda games make me wanna puke. Literally.

The games look great, but I must stop playing because of that. Such a shame. And of course now my mind automatically associates the brand name of Bethesda with...nausea.

That's just wrong.

[Plaintiff]

Melca36 wrote...

It shows me that a great many gamers are lazy and want things handed to them instead of having to play.

Its a sad reflection of society. I had no problems finishing BOTH games but then again I am NOT lazy and I dont want instant gratification.

Yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaah, I seriously doubt that anyone considers playing videogames a great hardship.

It's more likely that they simply get bored, or are distracted by the new games coming out every single day.

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lightning Cloud wrote...

Wait a second... Did someone say Origins had an art style?

It's called "Realist".  I really like it.

There is nothing "realistic" about Origins' art style.  The Witcher 1-2 is a much better example of realism.

Those also have excellent art (terrible gameplay, but fine art).

DAO is realist particularly in its muted colours.

I got to ask, why do you prefer that realism? Role playing purposes or just because its appealing to you? 

And as an aside, Skyrim has no main plot, because all Elder Scroll games throw them out after each game. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

I finish the games several times, though. But it seems to me that most people on this forum has finished alot of Bioware games at least once?

But the forum is not an accurate representation of the Dragon Age fanbase. Only a small minority care about the series enough to log in and discuss it every day, and those who are satisfied with the product are less likely to speak up than those who are not, because they already feel like their needs and desires have been met.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I finish the games several times, though. But it seems to me that most people on this forum has finished alot of Bioware games at least once?

But the forum is not an accurate representation of the Dragon Age fanbase. Only a small minority care about the series enough to log in and discuss it every day, and those who are satisfied with the product are less likely to speak up than those who are not, because they already feel like their needs and desires have been met.

Fair enough.

[Plaintiff]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Just because someone doesn't complete the game doesn't mean he doesn't replay it. Nor does it mean he moves on to something else.

SNIP.

I am with you on this one, Sylvius. I had a real problem finding characters for ME2 and 3 because I had started numerous games, got to a particular point, then put it aside for one or another reasons. When I tried to import a character, I found out of the literally dozens of games I had started, I had only completed a couple. However, I only played through ME-3 once - and vowed never to do it again

I have never finished Skyrim; even though I have played that game, everyday, since it came out, at least an hour or so, on average (usually late at night, to wind down).

And DAO was much the same; for the longest time, I just did not want to bother with the boss battle at the end. One of my kids had a down and dirty playthrough so I watched their boss battle. Every time I got to Denerim, I just started a new character. So for a long time, I would have been included with that mysterious percentage who never finished the game - but I played DAO over and over again - especially with mods.

A statistic is one thing; its meaning can be something altogether different. More data needs to be collected before any hypothesis on why people stop playing a game can be verified. We just do not know, at this point, why.

You're assuming Bioware doesn't have the telemetry on how many times a game is replayed. They do.

[fchopin]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Most modern games have telemetry hooks built in. DAO is no exception. The data it provides is incredibly useful, because it shows where players spend their time, how much time they spend there, and what sort of decisions they make. If your game is connected to the internet and you haven't turned off the option to send Bioware anonymous information, you're sending them information whenever hooks are hit, such as starting a new game, choosing an origin, finishing an origin, recruiting a character, etc. They can put hooks on whatever they feel is useful information, and tie it to that bioware/EA/origin/XBL/PSN account you sign in with.

It might not be 100% accurate, but the number of data points are in the millions. The margin of error is extremely low.

I know all about databases and i also know that data can be manipulated to get whatever answer you like.
 
You can not say anything about the figures because you have no idea how they were calculated.

[AlanC9]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I agree, but AFAIK Bio does collect that data, except from people who are stupid enough to turn the feature off. "Stupid" because this can only harm your own interests by making your personal play style seem less common than it is.

Someone not wiring themselves into everything that can send/receive PC info doesn't make them stupid, I would think.

Paranoid?

[Allan Schumacher]

Melca36 wrote...

It shows me that a great many gamers are lazy and want things handed to them instead of having to play.

Its a sad reflection of society. I had no problems finishing BOTH games but then again I am NOT lazy and I dont want instant gratification.

I dislike the word lazy. In fact, many of the people that don't finish games is because their lives are busy and they are doing a lot of other things. You have no insights into why someone didn't complete the main quest, or even why they play video games.

I know all about databases and i also know that data can be manipulated to get whatever answer you like.

Sorry, but when you make the distinction that I am counting your playthroughs as "7 completed, 14 not completed" rather than a binary "Completed the game" demonstrates that you're not entirely understanding the system at play here.

You may understand databases, but you've become outright dismissive of the conclusion based on "well they could just do whatever they want with the information they have" (this starts to enter the realm of conspiracy theory), as well as "Their data is incorrect because of the situation I have described."  (That is, that we count each of your incomplete playthroughs as another incomplete playthrough).

The latter reason shows you have incorrectly made assumptions about the telemetry system, while the former is akin to not liking the conclusion, so drawing your own logical conclusion that prevents cognitive dissonance.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[Allan Schumacher]

And DAO was much the same; for the longest time, I just did not want to bother with the boss battle at the end. One of my kids had a down and dirty playthrough so I watched their boss battle. Every time I got to Denerim, I just started a new character. So for a long time, I would have been included with that mysterious percentage who never finished the game - but I played DAO over and over again - especially with mods.

A statistic is one thing; its meaning can be something altogether different. More data needs to be collected before any hypothesis on why people stop playing a game can be verified. We just do not know, at this point, why.

Keep in mind we don't have just a single data point. You may have not have officially ended the game (and sure, you'll be included among the millions of other data points that also did not), it doesn't exist in a vacuum. We'll still see that you're one of the ones that got all the way to the end and just didn't finish it.

We'll also see that you played the game much longer than most other people.

[fchopin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I know all about databases and i also know that data can be manipulated to get whatever answer you like.

Sorry, but when you make the distinction that I am counting your playthroughs as "7 completed, 14 not completed" rather than a binary "Completed the game" demonstrates that you're not entirely understanding the system at play here.

You may understand databases, but you've become outright dismissive of the conclusion based on "well they could just do whatever they want with the information they have" (this starts to enter the realm of conspiracy theory), as well as "Their data is incorrect because of the situation I have described."  (That is, that we count each of your incomplete playthroughs as another incomplete playthrough).

The latter reason shows you have incorrectly made assumptions about the telemetry system, while the former is akin to not liking the conclusion, so drawing your own logical conclusion that prevents cognitive dissonance.

Sorry but i did not make a distinction how the calculation was made, all i meant was that without knowing how the figures were calculated there is no way to know if they are correct.
 
My example was only an example on how easy it is to have figures that may have a different meaning.
 
If you could tell us what was counted and in what way we would know if they are correct.