154 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Pedrak wrote...

Romance on Bio games gets exactly the attention it deserves, as a minor, skippable, amusing game feature, sometimes done well, sometimes done poorly.

On the BSN, on the other hand, the emphasis on it can be creepy and hard to believe.

I suspect if one approached Bio games with no access to the Web and no knowledge of the fandom surrounding them, the "LOL BioWare games are all about romance!" meme would seem quite odd and excessive to him. But shippers and fans and threads on thousands of pages about the looks of an alien fictional character and the dozens of topics begging the devs to let the player romance the PC's sister just make the amount of romance seem a lot bigger - and sillier - than it actually is in the games.

True to a point. I do believe that since the days of ME1, romance has become a much larger focus, to the extent their priorties are shifting from RPG to dating sim.

[Karlone123]

RainbowPuppy wrote...

A lot of people really enjoy the romances. What makes you think having them is necessarily detrimental to the rest of the game?

The way I see it, there are too many romances to maintain like ME series. the ones in ME2 became slightly secondary in ME3 like Jack and Jacob. More romances does add variety in choosing one you like but again some end up being sacrificed to put more work into others. So keep romances, just limit the amount of them as sad as it is.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

So you would say that all romanceable companions should have specific narrative ties that would be bolstered by romancing them?

At least some relevance which involves themes in the narrative. The only romance which effectively does this in Dragon Age 2 was Anders and it's very brief, unlike say... Alistair's romance influencing the tones of the Landsmeet and both Morrigan and Alistair influencing the player's thoughts on the finale.

An Alistair-romanced Warden having the player suffer a double-wammy if they don't do the ritual was brilliant. I'd still shake the hands of the writers for it.

Please do tell if there are other RPG companies making plot-significant romances that actually match my sexual preferences in a way that I would find enjoyable.

There's plenty of innocent child-like characters out there in every RPG, I'm sure you'd be satisified with most of them.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 30 novembre 2012 - 07:42 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

I didn't say the be all end all.

Your words heavily implied that without romance the relationships between Player and NPC were null and void, or somehow less than the romance itself. I'm glad to see that I was wrong, and you don't actually believe romance is necessary for character interaction.

I'm also glad to see that, despite the fact you seem to contradict yourself, you agree romance is not the only "rich" form of interaction. As you have said there are a number of ways to build relationships with characters, ranging from friendship to rivalry to romance.


Completely unrelated to my misinterpretation of your words and for the topic of Romance itself I will attempt to voice my opinion as clearly as possible with minimal use of bile:

Romance is not a necessity in the grand scheme of interaction, but it is one of many options available to a Player and I can't fault Bioware for giving us options. Friendship, rivalry and romance are all *optional* choices of character interaction. Each person is going to want to pursue a different avenue and each of those avenues should present it's own challenges, contain it's own progression and have it's own unique conclusion.

The problem that I have is the fact that the only path to gain it's own unique content, it's own fitting conclusion and it's own presentation of unique challenges is Romance. Romance receives more content than any other form of relationship, yes it's all "romantic content" meaning that anyone attempting to pursue a friendship "shouldn't care", but the simple fact is that that "romantic content" means that Romances get a greater sum of content than Friendships or Rivalries.

If the relationships were well balanced I would have no problem. If Friendships and Rivalries received their own unique dialogues, their own suitable conclusions and their own challenges to overcome then I would have utterly no problem with the continued use of "focused Romance". But the simple fact is they don't. The optional interaction of Romance receives more care, attention and CONTENT than any other form of interaction and I consider that to be rather ridiculous and entirely unfair.

That being said, I've come to accept the fact that Bioware are incapable of presenting each form of Player/NPC relationship with the same care, attention and content as Romance. So I'm willing to completely overlook the blatantly overbearing romantic content that overshadows every other form of interaction.

/opinions.

[wafwexe]

Romance makes the game feel more alive and also it gives replay value.

[Saibh]

Points for romance: We almost always feel connected very strongly to love interests over essentially any other relationship. Usually because the relationship is created during the narrative, and therefore the viewer feels more involved in its inception, and more aware of the feelings that surround it. You do not choose your family, and are generally not present for the making of a longterm friendship. Romances are chosen, so people feel particularly attached to love interests in films and books.

It's one of the easiest ways to make one feel invested in the world being created, and to feel urgency and danger when a love interest is involved. However, since many creators (particularly in film) use love interests as a cheap tool to prove a character has emotions or something (like the unspoken rule that all superheroes need a love interest), I think we're getting more disillusioned.

In video games, people feel even more connected and attached to relationship they feel they are personally forming. Romance is a great way to see different sides of the same character, and explore new options for both.

That said, I'll say what I've felt BioWare has been doing for a long time: they put such an effort and emphasis on romance it undermines the character completely. Often the romance is used as the only meaningful tool on which to get to know a character, and if you don't, a big part of their character arc is missing (especially in Mass Effect). The friendship path is almost never as fleshed out as the romance one, and is usually not as rewarding. In DAII, the friendly conversations you had with companions were incredibly few and unrewarding: almost all conversations were about their personal issue and quest they had.

DAO was much better in this regard, and was regarded more highly for it.

I also do not feel like four romance options available to a single character is reasonable in a party of six. Even if they're not constantly hitting on you.

[Seboist]

Xilizhra wrote...

Please do tell if there are other RPG companies making plot-significant romances that actually match my sexual preferences in a way that I would find enjoyable.

Yes there are

[slimgrin]

Saibh wrote...

I also do not feel like four romance options available to a single character is reasonable in a party of six. Even if they're not constantly hitting on you.

It's a bit ludicrous, really. Better to have the PC shacking up with NPC's not on your team.

[Xilizhra]

At least some relevance which involves themes in the narrative. The only romance which effectively does this in Dragon Age 2 was Anders and it's very brief, unlike say... Alistair's romance influencing the tones of the Landsmeet and both Morrigan and Alistair influencing the player's thoughts on the finale.

An Alistair-romanced Warden having the player suffer a double-wammy if they don't do the ritual was brilliant. I'd still shake the hands of the writers for it.

Well, fair enough. I see no problem with that.

There's plenty of innocent child-like characters out there in every RPG, I'm sure you'd be satisified with most of them.

I was referring to lesbianism. Also, Leliana is by no means childlike, even in manner (I don't think Liara is either and Merrill isn't significantly so, but I doubt I have any chance of convincing you of that). Morrigan is quite a bit more childlike than Leliana, really.

[Chromie]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Please do tell if there are other RPG companies making plot-significant romances that actually match my sexual preferences in a way that I would find enjoyable.

Yes there are

Persona is a jrpg based on that BSN won't care.

[HiroVoid]

Solmanian wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

If you don't want meaningful and branching character interaction and development why are you even playing an RPG in the first place?

Because the gameplay isnt like the other genres.

Why play a game if you don't care about the gameplay? Why is softcore porn the only meaningful interactivity? 

RPG's are not about the gameplay (not to say that it's not a vital part of any game). They are unique in that they have a simbyotic relationship with other genres: they use a certain genre as the platform to tell a story. Anyone will tell you that mass effect has very little in common with gears of war, and that fallout 3&NV has very little to do with Halo or COD. The gameplay is just a platform, the story is the most importent part of an rpg.

The fact that I can't play DAII because I find the combat repetetive as heck which is at least 70-80% of the game seems to be a bit contrary to this statement.

[argan1985]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Might as well replace the R with Romance, really. I haven`t seen much Roleplaying in the latest Bioware games. Mostly just action with conversations that has zero effect on how the story goesends up.

Role-playing isn't about affecting the story. It's about defining a character.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that there's too much focus on romance.

The whole point of role playing is to let you define your character yourself. If you want to imagine them having a romance with someone in the party, use your imagination! We don't need to be told every single thing by writers. If you ask me, romances have absolutely zero to do with RPGs, and I think it's a shame that they are given more and more attention, both here on the boards and in Bioware's recent games.

My two cents.

[iOnlySignIn]

Kroitz wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

P stands for Parenting.

G stands for Grocery-shopping.

RPG is for those who can't afford a family IRL.

Oh, where did you buy yours?

I don't. That is the point.

$60 is a small price to pay compared to half of my lifetime.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Seboist wrote...

Yes there are

Wow. The resemblance is uncanny! 

[Nefla]

I would rather have fewer but BETTER romance options where you can get to know the LI as a person and let affection build through your actions and conversation rather than just pushing that heart icon whenever it pops up.

[SirGladiator]

The original comment suggested that somehow the number of romances in ME3 caused the ending to suck, which is bizarre because the number of romances in the game has nothing at all to do with the fact that, until they changed it, there was no way to have a happy ending. They could've had 1 or 100 romances, that decision to give the players nothing but terrible endings was completely separate from that, and completely insane.

As to the broader point, I love the romances, I want more of them, I want them to stop taking away our choices, as a FemShep player a majority of the female romance options were disabled for me, I want to have all 5 female teammate LIs, the same as everybody else, not just one out of 5 because somebody doesn't like the idea of FemShep players romancing female teammates. In an ideal world, every female teammate would be a potential LI, but obviously nobody's asking for all that. However more is always better, and the deeper the romance the better.

I'll be satisfied with the same deal as DA2, two female LIs for my Female Inquisitor to choose from, and would be extremely happy with a third. I know that the more you add, the less quality you're going to get, so I'd be quite satisfied with two or three, quality over quantity and all that. The romances are a HUGE part of the game, of course they add tremendously to the replay value, but they also make each game unique and super fun in their very own special way. Its not that the romances are the main part of the game, but honestly if there werent any romances I probably would be playing something else, as they do add tremendously to the game.

Also I agree with the earlier comment that the romances should be a bit more challenging, there really should be more to it than clicking the heart icon enough times. I want to really earn the affections of the LI of my choice, I want to have to make the right conversation choices, find a nice gift item, that type of thing, not just find the heart icon. Isabella was a lot more like the former, Merrill was way too much of the latter.

Bioware is known for having the best romances in all of gaming, thats why their games are so popular. Of course they do a lot of things right in their games, whether its a great story, awesome combat, fascinating characters, etc. but the thing that put them on the map worldwide was FemShep and Liara, live on Fox News, it wasn't fighting weird looking aliens or blowing up a really huge talking ship. Without that romace they'd have had just another shooter, that may or may not've been popular enough for a sequel but certainly wouldn't have been the massive hit that they have today, with millions and millions of fans around the world, simply because people would've never heard of it or cared enough to give it a chance in the first place. Thats something to keep in mind the next time somebody tries to minimize the importance of romances in any Bioware game.

[mickey111]

[quote]SirGladiator wrote...The original comment suggested that somehow the number of romances in ME3 caused the ending to suck, [/quote]
No it didn't.

[quote]SirGladiator wrote...[/quote]I want (romances) to stop taking away our choices[quote]Me too. I want character development that go somewhere other than "we'll bang, okay," - Shepard... or go nowhere at all. DAO was good like that.



SirGladiator wrote...[/quote]Bioware is known for having the best romances in all of gaming, thats why their games are so popular.[quote] It's not like they're competing against a high standard in gaming anyway

[frankf43]

there was nowhere near enough romance in DA:2. You just didn't get the feeling you were building up to the relationship like you did in DA:O

[Lazengan]

Every single thread not regarding gameplay on these forums

SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX

bah north american culture...

Modifié par Lazengan, 01 décembre 2012 - 02:30 .

[Saibh]

Lazengan wrote...

Every single thread not regarding gameplay on these forums

SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX

bah north american culture...

Well...don't denigrate our European fellows!  They like the romances too.

In any case, it really is mostly about romance. I mentioned it early, but people always feel more attached to love interests than any other character. I'm not sure why some people are so hateful that some people get flutteries and good feelings from romances. I mean, no one gets angry at you for being happy that Sten was your friend, or that EDI cracked jokes with you? Those are feelings too, and they're about fictional characters. 

[upsettingshorts]

frankf43 wrote...

there was nowhere near enough romance in DA:2. You just didn't get the feeling you were building up to the relationship like you did in DA:O

I feel like this comment is straight out of opposite land.

DA2 is the game where it takes years to romance people.

DAO is the game where the Warden can sleep with Morrigan before Lothering.

I'm guessing what you're really referring to is that in DAO you have more control over the pace at which the romances proceed because you can talk to companions at your convenience, whereas in DA2 you are prompted when advancement is available.