184 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk]

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Modifié par Stardusk, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:03 .

[Madhouse46]

the black widow comments are correct, but the wraith to the claymore is wrong in my opinion, can never have too much overkill secondly a infiltrator with the claymore is just amusing...

' Oh your hiding behind cover, but you can't see me *grins evilly* SHOTGUN TO THE FACE! ' nothing more satisfying than doing that to a phantom ^^

[HolyAvenger]

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

[Stardusk]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

[Fortack]

The Claymore vs the Wraith is what the Javelin is vs the Black Widow.

[SeanThen1]

I have my wraith at 6 and it is a close call between it and the Claymore X. Not quite at the part where it overtakes it, though.

[Stardusk]

Fortack wrote...

The Claymore vs the Wraith is what the Javelin is vs the Black Widow.

No. The Javelin has wallhack and innate cover penetration. The Claymore just does more damage and offers nothing beyond that.

[HolyAvenger]

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

Yeah, the top 0.1% of the players. Not a population to base weapon comparisons on. Maxed manifests are rare, very rare.

And there are non-infiltrators that don't care about weight. Destroyers, Krentinels and Krolders spec'd out of powers etc.

[Knockingbr4in]

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

[Stardusk]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

Yeah, the top 0.1% of the players. Not a population to base weapon comparisons on. Maxed manifests are rare, very rare.

And there are non-infiltrators that don't care about weight. Destroyers, Krentinels and Krolders spec'd out of powers etc.

 I would argue that on a Destroyer, the Wratih is still better, you have a higher DPS with it, better accuracy, etc. Yeah, non-power based soldiers don't care about CD but that the least of the argument.

[Stardusk]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

Regardless, assuming X for both, is there a good reason to take the Claymore for most classes?

[HolyAvenger]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

I'm saying that getting the Claymore to X is a lot more achievable for more players, hence why then prefer it to the Wraith III or whatever they might have.

You don't think rarity and how easy weapons are to unlock should be a factor when discussing weapon choice in the community?

[FreaperFTW]

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

You're adressing the BSN crowd, which in itself is a very small portion of the ME3 MP playerbase, and of that crowd not even 50% has a maxed manifest, making your findings maybe only relevant to 50 or so people who will read this topic.

Nonetheless, I agree with your BW vs W statement, but I disagree that the Claymore is overkill. Specifically if used by a weapon platform/infiltrator against (large) bosses it's almost always the most viable option. Carrying this two ton boomstick on anything other than that does leave a lot to be desired, and forfeiting cooldowns for slightly more DPS, which should be achieved through power use rather than weapons, is often not the smartest play.

[ISHYGDDT]

I have a Wraith X and still prefer the Claymore. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I also score more highly with the Claymore. I agree, in principle, that the Wraith is a superior weapon(for non-infiltrators), but I just like the Claymore more.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:33 .

[HolyAvenger]

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

[Stardusk]

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

That's the debate and it remains open. Since the buff the Wraith really is a UR shotgun, light, massive damage and very accurate.

[HolyAvenger]

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

That's the debate and it remains open. Since the buff the Wraith really is a UR shotgun, light, massive damage and very accurate.

OK, I'm saying that I'm fine with the Wraith X outclassing the Claymore X given how much more difficult it is to obtain.

[IndigoVitare]

Claymore is probably better for the Human Soldier due to Auto-reload.

But yeah, the Wraith is sadly overlooked by so many people. Mine's been stuck at III for ages but it's still one of my most used weapons.

[Stardusk]

IndigoVitare wrote...

Claymore is probably better for the Human Soldier due to Auto-reload.

But yeah, the Wraith is sadly overlooked by so many people. Mine's been stuck at III for ages but it's still one of my most used weapons.

The T.Soldier also has auto reload, yet I find the Wraith better on him.

[Squire Rudi]

For some reason, the shotgun challenge went faster for me with the Raider than either Claymore or Wraith (level V).

What's your take on the AT12?

[Kenadian]

I understand what you're saying, but just to be a pedantic bastard, the Wraith is to the Eviscerator what the Black Widow is to the Widow.

[Stardusk]

Squire Rudi wrote...

For some reason, the shotgun challenge went faster for me with the Raider than either Claymore or Wraith (level V).

What's your take on the AT12?

It can be nice but I prefer the Wraith for its elegance.

[setrus86]

I agree, Wraith is simply more useful in more situations and on more characters...and I haven't even maxed my Wraith yet.

[Kenadian]

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

I would dispute this particular one. Accuracy is a none issue, as is weight, on the TSol, so it comes down to damage and RoF. The Claymore wins out in this competition.

[Stardusk]

Kenadian wrote...

I understand what you're saying, but just to be a pedantic bastard, the Wraith is to the Eviscerator what the Black Widow is to the Widow.

In that sense yes, but you know what I mean, YOUNG high lord diplomat. The Wraith might be a buffed Eviscerator but no one is debating whether to take the latter over the former.