184 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalas Magnus]

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

No it doesnt. 

[Knockingbr4in]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

I'm saying that getting the Claymore to X is a lot more achievable for more players, hence why then prefer it to the Wraith III or whatever they might have.

You don't think rarity and how easy weapons are to unlock should be a factor when discussing weapon choice in the community?

The discussion isn't about if it is more achievable for more players. Discussion is about the optimal setup.

Stardusk wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

Regardless, assuming X for both, is there a good reason to take the Claymore for most classes?

Comment was aimed at HolyAvenger as you can see above. I can't really comment on Claymore vs Wraith on a weapons class though, as I never used the Wraith on anything else than casters. I shall do so in the near future though.

[Stardusk]

Kenadian wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

I would dispute this particular one. Accuracy is a none issue, as is weight, on the TSol, so it comes down to damage and RoF. The Claymore wins out in this competition.

LOL. The T.Soldier has a great weight capacity try getting CQC when you need to fire concussive shot against a phantom, waiting on you 80% or your almost 200% CD, big difference. 2 marksman Wraith shots come do more damage than one Claymore shot.  If you want to use Marksman as often as possible then I would always take the Wraith.

[UEG Donkey]

Can you use the heavy barrel with the wraith without penalty?

[dragaaan]

regarding the stats i would say you are right but i just dont like the way the wraith feels. i dont know whether this makes much sense but at least for me the claymore just feels better and will always be the queen of all guns

[iOnlySignIn]

Stardusk wrote...

Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes.

Says the guy who doesn't play Infiltrators.

Claymore is also axiomatically better on Human Soldier due to auto-reload; and on Vorcha Sentinel & Geth Trooper due to effectively no cooldown restriction (like Infiltrators).

I'm sure Fortack will provide arguments for a variety of Adepts and Engineers too.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[HolyAvenger]

Kalas321 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

No it doesnt. 

I wouldn't know, I don't have the Wraith X.

I was just restating Stardusk's argument, and saying that I have no issue with it if true.

[Stardusk]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes.

Says the guy who doesn't play Infiltrators.

Claymore is also axiomatically better on Human, Turian, and Quarian Soldiers due to auto-reload; and on Vorcha Sentinel & Geth Trooper due to effectively no cooldown restriction.

I'm sure Fortack will provide arguments for a variety of Adepts and Engineers too.

LOL. Axiomatically better? Not for me, there goes your axiom. 

[Stardusk]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Can you use the heavy barrel with the wraith without penalty?

What do you mean?

[HolyAvenger]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

The discussion isn't about if it is more achievable for more players. Discussion is about the optimal setup.

The question posed was that why would you take the Claymore over the Wraith? My answer was that I have the Claymore X and the Wraith III, and so I take the Claymore as it is a lot more easier to level up and get used to.

If the question was why is the Wraith X better than the Claymore X, and is that an issue for people, then my answer is a) I don't know not having the Wraith X and I don't have an issue with an UR gun outclassing a rare gun

(same as the BW > Widow).

[Kenadian]

Stardusk wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

I would dispute this particular one. Accuracy is a none issue, as is weight, on the TSol, so it comes down to damage and RoF. The Claymore wins out in this competition.

LOL. The T.Soldier has a great weight capacity try getting CQC when you need to fire concussive shot against a phantom, waiting on you 80% or your almost 200% CD, big difference. 2 marksman Wraith shots come do more damage than one Claymore shot.  If you want to use Marksman as often as possible then I would always take the Wraith.

Marksman has, what, 2ish/3ish second cooldown with a Claymore? Besides, you know I don't use CS on my TSol, proxy all the way. Proxy I find is quite useful as a CC ability with a nifty debuff that reaches through cover. Theoretically I could use both powers more often with a Wraith, but you can get two reload cancelled Claymore shots off faster than two Wraith shots. Even if you can't, it's higher DPS and burst DPS and I'd venture to say the Claymore gets more out of Marksman's RoF bonuses due to the long ass refire rate on the Wraith.

Just looked on the class builder, Marksman cooldown is 2.9s with the Claymore, 1.9 with the Wraith. 2.9 is plenty fast.

Modifié par Kenadian, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[Kenadian]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Can you use the heavy barrel with the wraith without penalty?

Yes, all non-DLC guns get no weight bonus from them.

[iOnlySignIn]

Stardusk wrote...

LOL. Axiomatically better? Not for me, there goes your axiom. 

OK maybe not on the Turian. You're the Turian expert. I'll give you that one.

Does the Concussive Shot argument really work though? I use the Typhoon (same weight as Claymore, iirc) on my Human/Turian Soldiers and the cooldown on Concussive Shot is quite manageable.

But on a Human Soldier? No way. That's the axiom. In fact, I've seen many great Claymore Human Soldiers but not one great Wraith Human Soldier. Maybe you should make a video of it. There must be some secrets to using the Wraith that are as yet unknown to me. 

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Stardusk]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

LOL. Axiomatically better? Not for me, there goes your axiom. 

OK maybe not on the Turian. You're the Turian expert. I'll give you that one.

Does the Concussive Shot argument really works though? I use the Typhoon (same weight as Claymore, iirc) on my Human/Turian Soldiers and the cooldown on Concussive Shot is quite manageable.

But on a Human Soldier? No way. That's the axiom. In fact, I've seen many great Claymore Human Soldiers but not one great Wraith Human Soldier. Maybe you should make a video of it.

I don't use the Human soldier much, I might try it though.

[Knockingbr4in]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

The discussion isn't about if it is more achievable for more players. Discussion is about the optimal setup.

The question posed was that why would you take the Claymore over the Wraith? My answer was that I have the Claymore X and the Wraith III, and so I take the Claymore as it is a lot more easier to level up and get used to.

If the question was why is the Wraith X better than the Claymore X, and is that an issue for people, then my answer is a) I don't know not having the Wraith X and I don't have an issue with an UR gun outclassing a rare gun

(same as the BW > Widow).

Well, I guess we can deduce from you that we shouldn't take a Wraith III or lower against a Claymore X if we're looking for what is optimal then.

[Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout]

Well, I am a stout fan of the claymore, but recently i started using a wraith V ( have it at VII now, after a 8-million shopping spree. ^^ ) on the Broguard and it performs really really good.

So, yes, I still claim that the Claymore actually has a death star firing from inside but the wraith is very good, on par, maybe better than claymore.

[Ankarah]

1. Wraith's ROF is so slow, you can almost get Claymore to work just as fast by reload cancelling.

2. classes that seriously consider weapon weights to be effective shouldn't carry neither in the first place.

3. Unless you play on Silver or lower, even Claymore won't guarantee a one-shot-kill on most enemies unless it's a perfect head shot - you can certainly never have too much power on Platinum.

4. For 95% of the people, they are much more likely to have maxed out Claymore than they have Wraith, further increasing the disparity between the two.

[LuckyBullet95]

If you're a good reload canceller the Claymore fires faster than the Wraith.

[Rodia Driftwood]

Unless your Black Widow or your Wraith are at level X, the Claymore and the Widow are the better choices, since they're both most likely maxed already and they're at their full potential. Such is not the case for everyone, Op

[HolyAvenger]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

The discussion isn't about if it is more achievable for more players. Discussion is about the optimal setup.

The question posed was that why would you take the Claymore over the Wraith? My answer was that I have the Claymore X and the Wraith III, and so I take the Claymore as it is a lot more easier to level up and get used to.

If the question was why is the Wraith X better than the Claymore X, and is that an issue for people, then my answer is a) I don't know not having the Wraith X and I don't have an issue with an UR gun outclassing a rare gun

(same as the BW > Widow).

Well, I guess we can deduce from you that we shouldn't take a Wraith III or lower against a Claymore X if we're looking for what is optimal then.

Well we're just going around in circles now. My point was that I often find these topics that compare UR weapons to Rare weapons frustrating because I think most URs are designed to be better than their Rare counterparts obviously.

What next? Why take the Katana when you have a Eviscerator? Why take the Phalanx when you have a Carnifex?

[laniromee]

Am I the only one that thinks the raider is ridiculously better than both of them in a Turian Soldier? That shottie is amazing even on host

Modifié par laniromee, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Kenadian]

Ankarah wrote...

1. Wraith's ROF is so slow, you can almost get Claymore to work just as fast by reload cancelling.

2. classes that seriously consider weapon weights to be effective shouldn't carry neither in the first place.

3. Unless you play on Silver or lower, even Claymore won't guarantee a one-shot-kill on most enemies unless it's a perfect head shot - you can certainly never have too much power on Platinum.

4. For 95% of the people, they are much more likely to have maxed out Claymore than they have Wraith, further increasing the disparity between the two.

This line doesn`t make sense. I can agree for the Claymore, but the Wraith? It shares literally the same weight as the Mattock and Piranha, it's incredibly light for its damage and is perfect as a caster shotgun.

[croADEPT]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

If you're a good reload canceller the Claymore fires faster than the Wraith.

this claymore all the way.

[Zancloufer]

Does the RoF bonus from Marksmen remove that annoying reload delay from the Wraith? Would think it does as the >60 RPM really messes with the reload rate of weapons.

If it does and makes the Wraith a True quick two-shot shotgun I could see it being better than the Claymore on the TSol.

Still, Claymore>>>>>>Wraith on a Human Solider. AR reload + some AP makes for some crazy damage and overkill isn't as prevalent when the pellets go through multiple enemies.

[snarf001]

I use my Wraith X on the Volus Engineer. It is my prefered shotgun on this character and there is no way in hell I would ever use a Claymore on him, just too heavy so in that respect, the Wraith is better but the Claymore is more suited for other characters that doesn't worry about CD.