184 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob Garbage]

Not all classes need to worry about weight issues, and most infilitrators benefit from single shot/high damage weapons. Also, with the choke, you can basically snipe enemies with the Claymore. If you're going to spend more time in enemy sights and have a power based character, the Wraith is the way to go, otherwise, Claymore.

[SeanThen1]

It's a close call, but that refire time on the Wraith drives mr crazy. I'll often find myself popping AR to overcome it in clinch situations.

[Flambirex]

I don't like the Wraith's ROF or the reload delay, so I use the Claymore. I think the Claymore was the first weapon challenge I completed

I have the Wraith at VIII (highest UR by far) but I can only stand using it on the Destroyer due to the ROF bonus. I should try it out on the Turian Soldier.

[Fortack]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I'm sure Fortack will provide arguments for a variety of Adepts and Engineers too.

One thing I like about the Claymore is how well it matches (most) cooldowns. For example, the Fury (or AA) can fire Claymore and reload cancel with Throw (every shot). A power like Warp (or Overload) can be cast between every 2 shots. The FQE can spam Cryo Blast between every Claymore shot (and/or cryo an enemy > shoot > (reload cancel with) Incinerate etc etc.

Faster cooldowns have little impact on performance when you cannot fire your weapon at its max RoF AND use powers as fast as possible. You cannot fire the Wraith twice followed by Throw without wasting (a lot of) cooldown time and when you are going to cast Throw between every shot there is no real point to take the Wraith over the Claymore anyway.

I also think it's worth mentioning that Stardusk favors fighting Cerberus. Claymore is in a league of its own against Reapers and Collectors when the extra damage does make a difference against a lot of enemies (esp when used on characters who have abilities to increase weapon damage).

[Stardusk]

Fortack wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I'm sure Fortack will provide arguments for a variety of Adepts and Engineers too.

One thing I like about the Claymore is how well it matches (most) cooldowns. For example, the Fury (or AA) can fire Claymore and reload cancel with Throw (every shot). A power like Warp (or Overload) can be cast between every 2 shots. The FQE can spam Cryo Blast between every Claymore shot (and/or cryo an enemy > shoot > (reload cancel with) Incinerate etc etc.

Faster cooldowns have little impact on performance when you cannot fire your weapon at its max RoF AND use powers as fast as possible. You cannot fire the Wraith twice followed by Throw without wasting (a lot of) cooldown time and when you are going to cast Throw between every shot there is no real point to take the Wraith over the Claymore anyway.

I also think it's worth mentioning that Stardusk favors fighting Cerberus. Claymore is in a league of its own against Reapers and Collectors when the extra damage does make a difference against a lot of enemies (esp when used on characters who have abilities to increase weapon damage).

On tech casters with overload and such the Wraith is much better. The Wraith also performs very well against Reapers and Collectors. 

[Lives Must Die]

Yeah.... those weapons (Wraith and BW) are UR. They take much longer to get, and for that they should be better in many circumstances in my opinion. Somewhat... obvious....

[Fortack]

Stardusk wrote...

On tech casters with overload and such the Wraith is much better.

Why?

Why take the Wraith on any character with Overload, fighting Cerb, if you have the Saber? I believe they weigh the same but the Saber has (a lot more) shots, higher RoF and combined with Overload it can take out nearly every (Cerb) enemy with a single shot (Wraith extra damage is overkill, which is what you were arguing about the Claymore earlier).

The Wraith also performs very well against Reapers and Collectors.

No one is saying it doesn't. But the Wraith cannot kill a Ravanger with a single shot, cannot kill Brutes in 2, I don't think it can kill a Scion in 3 and it definitely cannot kill a Banshee in 4 shots. That's why the Claymore is at least a match for the Wraith against those factions which doesn't support your claim that it's nothing more than what the Widow is to the Black Widow (aka a PoS). Both the Wraith and Claymore are excellent weapons, both have their pros and cons, neither is better or worse than the other - just different.

[mrcanada]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

Lighter doesn't matter for a lot more weapons classes. The Wraith is a lot harder to get to X (I've had my Claymore X for months). Accuracy seems on par for me with the same mods (SC and Barrel). Claymore's burst damage will be of more use in certain situations.

I hate these weapon comparisons between rares and URs. Most of the community does not have their UR at X. That makes it almost a meaningless comparison.

I know lots of people with maxed manifests. I do have a Wraith X and I am comparing it on that basis. I am also not talking about Infiltrators. The T.Soldier performs better with a Wraith than a Claymore as do many other classes.

Yeah, the top 0.1% of the players. Not a population to base weapon comparisons on. Maxed manifests are rare, very rare.

And there are non-infiltrators that don't care about weight. Destroyers, Krentinels and Krolders spec'd out of powers etc.

That isn't the point of the thread. He's saying at their highest levels, it can do the job of the Claymore X nearly as well and be ready to shoot quicker. Some instances the Claymore works better, but on classes such as a Drell Vanguard, I may have to agree. I'll never count the Claymore out though.

[kipac]

Playstyle and personal preference are what's important.
I don't really care about all those weapon stats on paper.

[Ledgend1221]

Raider is the best out of them both.

[capn233]

Fortack wrote...

Why take the Wraith on any character with Overload, fighting Cerb, if you have the Saber?

Wraith X weighs 0.9, Saber X is 1.4.

I replaced Claymore with Wraith on various characters after I got it leveled up.  If you have some sort of rapid cooldown power like Throw, maybe Claymore is better.  If your only power on cooldown is Charge and you have grenades, maybe Claymore is better.  On someone like the Turian Sentinel, Claymore weight plus Tech Armor penalty seems to get the powers a little out of rhythm and it seems like Wraith meshes better.  Batarian Vanguard with Wraith + Shotgun blade seems to work better than Claymore.

There are some characters that are probably best with Claymore though.  Ones with damage buffs and no rate of fire buffs (Human Soldier), or some that are less weight sensitive with ROF and accuracy buffs (GI), etc.

Modifié par capn233, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[mrcanada]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Raider is the best out of them both.

The problem is that the Raider is useless outside of short-medium range whereas the Wraith and Claymore can almost headshot across a map with the choke on. That ability puts them ahead of the Raider for overall use. Saying that, I love the Raider.

[CNevarezN]

The Wraith is a damn fine weapon. I agree!

[waltervolpatto]

I've been introduced to the Wraith by a friend and I'm really starting to like it...

[mpompeo27]

Stardusk wrote...

Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

I'd say the Raider is the real Claymore substitute, not the Wraith.

[lazysundae]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

So we shouldn't base weapons discussions on maxed out weapons. Got it.

In some situations yes, but when talking "why take this when you can take that" we should also base it on what is realistically accessable.  I've got a Claymore X and a Wraith I - and thanks to the drop system, I'm lucky to have that single Wraith.

Same deal when someone says "I'm struggling with Z character" and someone else says "slap a Harrier X on it and it's godly."  I can't say I've EVER seen a Harrier X in the wild.  It's not realistic advice.

[mrcanada]

mpompeo27 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Recently after some experimentation I have come to the firm conclusion that, other than for reasons of nostalgia, there is no reason to take the Claymore over the Wraith for most classes. The only area where the Claymore outshines it is damage, other than that the Wraith is MUCH lighter, has the second highest shotgun damage in the game, 2 shots and is more accurate. Most of the time the Claymore is overkill, sure it is cool but in terms of efficiency the Wraith does seem to be better than the Claymore. I feel much the same way about the Black Widow vs. the Widow. Only nostalgia draws me to the Widow but that is it.

I'd say the Raider is the real Claymore substitute, not the Wraith.

See my post above. The Raider can't keep up due to its severe lack of range. It depends on the map though. If you are on Glacier, Raider would be ideal, but most maps it will be left in the dust by Claymore/Wraith.

[InArts]

Reload-canceling claymore GI is so fuuuunnn thoooough.... =(

[kyles3]

What my Black Widow III is to my Widow X, my Wraith III is to my Claymore X.

RNG can kiss my black ass.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Here is my opinion on shotguns :-

Claymore :- The ultimate shotgun. the shotgun which all other shotgun and powerful weapons are compared with. Need to be an expert in reload cancel . Missed shots are very costly

Wraith :- Has more utility and flexibility . Reloads very fast & doesn't require reload cancel . The ROF is decent. High ROF weapons have no innate accuracy so that is why Wraith does not have high ROF. Without reload cancelling, Wraith has more DPS than the Claymore. You can miss shots.


You can use the Wraith + Smart Choke + High Caliber Barrel on any class & have a decent cooldown. Try using Claymore + Smart Choke + High Caliber Barrel on a power dependent class. & with High Caliber Barrel, the Wraith X's single shot does almost the same damage as a base Claymore X's single shot. That's incredible...

So yes, Wraith X is more practical than the Claymore X ..I have to agree with Stardusk....

Modifié par The Sin, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:51 .

[Feneckus]

Fortack wrote...

The Claymore vs the Wraith is what the Javelin is vs the Black Widow.

[UKStory135]

I think the Wraith X is the best gum in the game. The Wraith is very level dependent though. I still think that a 1337 player using an infiltrator or human soldier would be better off with the Claymore.

[RaueDrakenhaart]

The Black Widow is to the Widow what the Wraith is to the Claymore, and the Evicerator is to the Wraith what the Carnifex is to the Paladin.

[DirtySHISN0]

Sniping with a smart choked claymore or missing with a smart choked wraith.

Claymore every time.

[Kenadian]

The Sin wrote...

Here is my opinion on shotguns :-

Claymore :- The ultimate shotgun. the shotgun which all other shotgun and powerful weapons are compared with. Need to be an expert in reload cancel . Missed shots are very costly

Wraith :- Has more utility and flexibility . Reloads very fast & doesn't require reload cancel . The ROF is decent. High ROF weapons have no innate accuracy so that is why Wraith does not have high ROF. Without reload cancelling, Wraith has more DPS than the Claymore. You can miss shots.


You can use the Wraith + Smart Choke + High Caliber Barrel on any class & have a decent cooldown. Try using Claymore + Smart Choke + High Caliber Barrel on a power dependent class. & with High Caliber Barrel, the Wraith X's single shot does almost the same damage as a base Claymore X's single shot. That's incredible...

So yes, Wraith X is more practical than the Claymore X ..I have to agree with Stardusk....

None of the heavy mods add weight to the non-DLC weapons, so the Claymore doesn't get any heavier on caster classes. You can still make use of it just fine on a Tsent, for example.