184 réponses à ce sujet

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

Even though I would consider the Wraith my favorite gun, the claymore is still preferred for certain classes that can take the weight or can deal with crowds and needs a boss killer.

[Gylukios]

Kenadian wrote...

None of the heavy mods add weight to the non-DLC weapons, so the Claymore doesn't get any heavier on caster classes. You can still make use of it just fine on a Tsent, for example.

Seriously? No weight increase? If so, holy crap, shotguns for everybody!

Can't believe I've never heard of that before.

[Nightmare137]

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

Modifié par Nightmare137, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[Stardusk]

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

[Feneckus]

IMO the Wraith does not have better accuracy. Well, it does, but since the Claymore does more damage, even if fewer pellets hit you're still looking at roughly the same damage.

And this cooldown thing is total BS. What's important is how much time it takes for you to kill stuff. And in a lot of cases, the Claymore wins, hands down.

[Stardusk]

Feneckus wrote...

IMO the Wraith does not have better accuracy. Well, it does, but since the Claymore does more damage, even if fewer pellets hit you're still looking at roughly the same damage.

And this cooldown thing is total BS. What's important is how much time it takes for you to kill stuff. And in a lot of cases, the Claymore wins, hands down.

The CD is not bs if you are using a T.Soldier to snipe across the screen with, neither is the accuracy in such a situation.

[Nightmare137]

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

[N7Dropout1]

Good analysis, but very, very, VERY few players have Wraith X.

[Stardusk]

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

[Nightmare137]

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

Are you hosting when you play your Tsol?

[Stardusk]

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

Are you hosting when you play your Tsol?

Here I was. I don't always though. Why?

[Nightmare137]

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

Are you hosting when you play your Tsol?

Here I was. I don't always though. Why?

Just that last I heard the Turian stability bonus only applies if you're hosting.

[Stardusk]

Air Quotes wrote...

If you can reload cancel the Claymore is just better.

I do like the Wraith now. Well after so many buffs and getting it to X did made it better. Worthy UR.

I can reload cancel the Wraith as well. I can reload cancel the Claymore. Just better? I don't think so.

[Kenadian]

Gylukios wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

None of the heavy mods add weight to the non-DLC weapons, so the Claymore doesn't get any heavier on caster classes. You can still make use of it just fine on a Tsent, for example.

Seriously? No weight increase? If so, holy crap, shotguns for everybody!

Can't believe I've never heard of that before.

It's a bug. If you use a sidearm with the ULM mods or if you use a DLC weapon (read, anything other than the original weapons, N7 Promos, Raider and Argus) you will get the weight addition.

[Kenadian]

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

Are you hosting when you play your Tsol?

Here I was. I don't always though. Why?

Just that last I heard the Turian stability bonus only applies if you're hosting.

It's an inconsistent bug. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. You'll definitely notice it if your Hurricane starts to kick like a ****ing mule.

[Stardusk]

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

For characters more concerned about weight/ want more accuracy:

Wraith X is the better option

For characters less concerned about weight and/or have accuracy bonuses:

Claymore X

Side by Side

Claymore X vs Wraith X

Weight: 2.00 vs .90 Winner = wraith
Damage per pellet: 206 vs 147 Winner = Claymore
RoF (RPM before reload cancels): 64 vs 48 Winner = Claymore
Rounds per clip: 1 vs 2 Winner = Wraith
Spare rounds : 18 vs 28 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (No Reload Cancel): 469.85 vs 588 Winner = Wraith
Multi Clip DPS (W/ Reload Cancel): 833.38 vs 773.68 Winner = Claymore
Stats bar Accuracy: 10 vs 15 winner = wraith

So in short the Wraith is:

Lighter
Has more overall rounds
Has stronger sustained DPS if you cant reload cancel
slightly more accuracy

The Claymore has:

More Damage per shot
Can fire more rounds per minute before reload cancels factored
Higher sustained DPS if reload canceled.

And honestly I wouldn't even factor accuracy in here if you're using a smart choke on any character though this particuarly applies to any with it's own innate accuracy bonus powers (Destroyer, geth, TSol)

I find I do note a greater difference in accuracy. I just did this match with the T.Soldier and the Wraith. I find I can kill things faster. Marksman makes up for the fire delay, gives faster reloads and I can reload cancel the Wraith just like the Claymore. At least on the T.Soldier I see no reason to use the Claymore anymore.

Marksmen benefits the claymore too and will put it at the same advantage over the wraith. Regardless even better than both for the Tsol is the AT-12 Raider. It is a middle ground in weight between them but has way higher RoF and sustained dps w/ reload cancels with the only drawback being slightly less accuracy than the claymore which he can completely reduce to nothing.

I have used all 3. I used to like the Claymore the most but since the Wraith buffs I prefer it over the Claymore. The Raider is nice but it has so much recoil that even a T.Soldier needs stability gear if you want to snipe with it. It is definitely good but I prefer the Wraith.

Are you hosting when you play your Tsol?

Here I was. I don't always though. Why?

Just that last I heard the Turian stability bonus only applies if you're hosting.

Yeah, they are unreliable if not hosting but if ever try to rapidly snipe across a huge map with the Raider, the 55% is sometimes not even enough, it works best with 85% stability. I prefer the superior control and accuracy of the Wraith but maybe that is just me.

[TommyNg]

Fortack wrote...

The Claymore vs the Wraith is what the Javelin is vs the Black Widow.

Yes its a better comparison

[Tybo]

If you're trying to play at range, and focusing on headshotting everything, I agree. With a decent percentage of the pellets hitting the head, the Wraith is strong enough to one-shot almost any mook, and the difference in boss damage is slight.

However, when used in CQC on a class which requires more mobility and thus less time to aim, I find the Claymore superior. This is because it can easily one shot almost any enemy, and you can thus snap-shot it to kill. You don't have to take the time to line up your shot.

The weight issue does make a difference for most CQC classes, enough to make the choice difficult.  But I find the superior ease of use of the Claymore to be enough of a reason to take it.

Modifié par tyhw, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[TommyNg]

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

But Piranha outclass both its only rare, why ?

[Major Durza]

UR's are a an extreme rarity on Gold PUGs, even decent players are scare.
I am a scrub compared to you and your crowd, Stardusk, and I am top-tier as far as Gold PUGs go. Its an anomaly when I do not top the scoreboard in a PUG, yet when I play with anyone from your crowd I get nowhere close to your scores.

[Stardusk]

TommyNg wrote...

Fortack wrote...

The Claymore vs the Wraith is what the Javelin is vs the Black Widow.

Yes its a better comparison

I don't think so. The Javelin offers 3 advantages over the BW: damage, wallhack, penetration. The Claymore offers one over the Wraith: damage. Hence why I believe the Widow/Black Widow comparison is better.

[Zero132132]

Honestly, most of the time, I feel like I can chain RC'd claymore shots together faster than two Wraith shots, so on builds that don't care much about cooldowns, I'll always take it first. I love both weapons a LOT, though.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

I've always been a proponent for the Wraith. I have loved it since it was about level V or so. However, the Claymore does have its place - namely, boss killing with added benefit of less potential exposure. The Wraith is a great overall fit for Gold and below. The Claymore is still great on Platinum.

I'll always prefer the Wraith on caster classes and perhaps on Gold (or below). However, on classes like the HSo (always), GI (on Platinum), I feel I'd prefer the Claymore.

If you can Headshot OHK anything with a Wraith, then the Claymore is overkill. Though you may be able to reload cancel for higher sustained DPS with the Claymore, you will be able to kill more targets with a Wraith since less of its damage is wasted per shot.

Honestly, I use the Wraith on many of my classes, but there will always be occasions to use the Claymore

[Feneckus]

TommyNg wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

OK, if you have both the Claymore and the Wraith at X, the Wraith outclasses the Claymore. That's why one is a UR and one is a rare.

But Piranha outclass both