184 réponses à ce sujet

[UEG Donkey]

Quick question, I have problems reload canceling the claymore on certain characters that can't cancel with a power (or don't want to) and have an elaborate dodge that takes more time than actually just reloading the Claymore, mainly regarding the drell vanguard. Do I simply chuck a cluster grenade everytime I reload? or is there some other way on console to achieve this

[TommyNg]

I think there is no reason to use wraith as Piranha totally replace wraith with its DPS but havent replace claymore , as claymore has the highest single shot damage useful in some situation.

[VerySeed]

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

[Fortack]

Stardusk wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

If most of what you are killing are bosses, then you'd be hard pressed to claim the Wraith would be better, imo.

Which is why the title of this topic is BS. The Widow is outclassed by the Black Widow in all situations, anyone who argues the same is true for the Wraith vs Claymore needs mental treatment help.

Thanks for suggesting I need mental treatment. I changed the title btw.

Overstatement, maybe?

The diffence between the Wraith and Claymore is about faster cooldowns vs more damage which is a fair deal IMO. That's not the case when you review the Black Widow and Widow. Regardless who or what's using em, the Black Widow is always better, the Wraith isn't.

[Stardusk]

VerySeed wrote...

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

You must be new. Single shot weapons benefit from ROF because the reload time is reduced by a higher ROF. The T.Soldier thus has the fastest firing Claymore of any character in the game under Marksman.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Quick question, I have problems reload canceling the claymore on certain characters that can't cancel with a power (or don't want to) and have an elaborate dodge that takes more time than actually just reloading the Claymore, mainly regarding the drell vanguard. Do I simply chuck a cluster grenade everytime I reload? or is there some other way on console to achieve this

You can tap your dodge button as long as you are not moving or close to cover.  Also, you can shoot from cover; once you shoot, release the trigger, but hold the ADS trigger.  Once it reloads, press the Dodge button, and you will be ADSing again without leaving cover.

Hope that helps.

[Fortack]

VerySeed wrote...

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

(Almost) every weapon benefits from RoF bonuses b/c they reduce reload times as well.

[Dunvi]

Am I the only person who despises the refire time on the Wraith?

[UEG Donkey]

Stardusk wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

You must be new. Single shot weapons benefit from ROF because the reload time is reduced by a higher ROF. The T.Soldier thus has the fastest firing Claymore of any character in the game under Marksman.

Well, adrenaline rush is even faster but I think we are talking about two different things at that point.  I like the wraith over the claymore on all characters that dodge except for the N7 Fury and Vocha Sentinel.  I don't really use shotguns on the TSoldier (I've really only used the Hurricane on that guy)

[UEG Donkey]

Jack Crapper wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

Quick question, I have problems reload canceling the claymore on certain characters that can't cancel with a power (or don't want to) and have an elaborate dodge that takes more time than actually just reloading the Claymore, mainly regarding the drell vanguard. Do I simply chuck a cluster grenade everytime I reload? or is there some other way on console to achieve this

You can tap your dodge button as long as you are not moving or close to cover.  Also, you can shoot from cover; once you shoot, release the trigger, but hold the ADS trigger.  Once it reloads, press the Dodge button, and you will be ADSing again without leaving cover.

Hope that helps.

Will do thanks for the help. 

[Ashen One]

The weapons appeal to completely different classes, comparing them is like comparing the Javelin and Valiant.

classes that need to be mindful of the weight system can use a Wraith AND another weapon and still have much less combined weight than the Claymore which is it's greatest advantage. For classes that disregard weight, and buff weapons the Claymore is a better choice but without those weapon buffs I mentioned the Claymore's damage is not high enough to justify weighing more than twice as much as the Wraith.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:32 .

[Major Durza]

Dunvi wrote...

Am I the only person who despises the refire time on the Wraith?

It is best on classes that have a somewhat short time between their casts that they can use.  Fire Wraith, cast, fire wraith *enemy should be dead that is not boss-level*, reload, repeat.

Works wonders on the Krogan Shaman.  Gotta balance when to melee, when to cast, and when to shoot though.  It *has* to be a combination of the three.

Modifié par Major Durza, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[ISHYGDDT]

Stardusk wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

You must be new. Single shot weapons benefit from ROF because the reload time is reduced by a higher ROF. The T.Soldier thus has the fastest firing Claymore of any character in the game under Marksman.

Yes, but the difference is far less significant, since the reload animation itself is not affected: only the time until reloading can begin.

After firing a shot, the Claymore has a period of 0.94 seconds before reloading begins while Claymore under influence of ROF marksman has a period of 0.63 seconds.  With a perfect reload cancel the reload animation will last 1.04 seconds leaving you with a minimum time between shots of 1.67 seconds with Marksman vs. 1.98 seconds without.  Put another way you can shoot the Claymore ~19% faster with perfect reload cancelling, far less of a DPS boost than that of a many shot weapon (in which the sustained DPS boost approaches the ROF boost i.e. 50%.)  With imperfect reload cancelling this number shrinks further.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:41 .

[VerySeed]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Wait wait wait. You're telling me that a gun that benefits from rate of fire bonuses is better than a gun that doesn't benefit from rate of fire bonuses on a character that gives out monster rate of fire bonuses?

Who woulda thought. Absolutely mindblowing

You must be new. Single shot weapons benefit from ROF because the reload time is reduced by a higher ROF. The T.Soldier thus has the fastest firing Claymore of any character in the game under Marksman.

Yes, but the difference is far less significant, since the reload animation itself is not affected only the time until reloading can begin after firing a shot Claymore has a period of 0.94 seconds before reloading begins while Claymore under influence of ROF marksman has a period of 0.63 seconds.  With a perfect reload cancel the reload animation will last 1.04 seconds leaving you with a minimum time between shots of 1.67 seconds with Marksman vs. 1.98 seconds without.  Put another way you can shoot the Claymore ~19% faster with perfect reload cancelling, far less of a DPS boost than that of a many shot weapon (in which the sustained DPS boost approaches the ROF boost i.e. 50%.)  With imperfect reload cancelling this number shrinks further.

^Thank you. I shoulda known people would nitpick at the whole 'doesn't benefit from ROF' thing. And yes I'm totally new here. Of course the condescending tone would come from the old guy.

[Zero132132]

tyhw wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Honestly, most of the time, I feel like I can chain RC'd claymore shots together faster than two Wraith shots, so on builds that don't care much about cooldowns, I'll always take it first. I love both weapons a LOT, though.

It's staggered.  You get to 2-4-6-8 faster on the Wraith, and 3-5-7-9 faster on the Claymore.

Yeah, but I said 'feel' for a reason. With the Claymore, RCing is an active process. With the Wraith, I shoot, and then I have to wait. I didn't think it actually WAS faster in any sense (you sure about the 3-5-7-9 bit?), in terms of maximum RoF, but there's a pretty clear "ready to shoot now!" cue on the Claymore, so it feels faster.

[Tybo]

Zero132132 wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Honestly, most of the time, I feel like I can chain RC'd claymore shots together faster than two Wraith shots, so on builds that don't care much about cooldowns, I'll always take it first. I love both weapons a LOT, though.

It's staggered.  You get to 2-4-6-8 faster on the Wraith, and 3-5-7-9 faster on the Claymore.

Yeah, but I said 'feel' for a reason. With the Claymore, RCing is an active process. With the Wraith, I shoot, and then I have to wait. I didn't think it actually WAS faster in any sense (you sure about the 3-5-7-9 bit?), in terms of maximum RoF, but there's a pretty clear "ready to shoot now!" cue on the Claymore, so it feels faster.

No, you're right.  I accidentally did the numbers for the Claymore with a RoF boost and the Wraith without one.  I was wrong

[sy7ar]

tyhw wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Honestly, most of the time, I feel like I can chain RC'd claymore shots together faster than two Wraith shots, so on builds that don't care much about cooldowns, I'll always take it first. I love both weapons a LOT, though.

It's staggered.  You get to 2-4-6-8 faster on the Wraith, and 3-5-7-9 faster on the Claymore.

Yeah, but I said 'feel' for a reason. With the Claymore, RCing is an active process. With the Wraith, I shoot, and then I have to wait. I didn't think it actually WAS faster in any sense (you sure about the 3-5-7-9 bit?), in terms of maximum RoF, but there's a pretty clear "ready to shoot now!" cue on the Claymore, so it feels faster.

No, you're right.  I accidentally did the numbers for the Claymore with a RoF boost and the Wraith without one.  I was wrong

what do you think about RC each shot for the Wraith? is it better than RC after 2 shots?

[Dokteur Kill]

Wraith has too low rate of fire for its two-shot magazine to be an actual advantage. It's nice as a lightweight shotgun with a bit of a punch to it, but for raw damage output it can't match the claymore.

[Zero132132]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Quick question, I have problems reload canceling the claymore on certain characters that can't cancel with a power (or don't want to) and have an elaborate dodge that takes more time than actually just reloading the Claymore, mainly regarding the drell vanguard. Do I simply chuck a cluster grenade everytime I reload? or is there some other way on console to achieve this

If you can, aim your reticule away from any enemy briefly and hit the charge button. I tried it for a while, worked well. You can also fire and charge immediately, and due to a little glitch, it'll reload on the way.

Still prefer Wraith on my Drellguard. Love that class, and that weapon.

sy7ar wrote...

what do you think about RC each shot for the Wraith? is it better than RC after 2 shots?

Doesn't the refire time make that impossible? Actually asking. Otherwise, I might rethink how I use that weapon.

Modifié par Zero132132, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[capn233]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Because the difference in DPS between a RC-ed Wraith and non RC-ed Wraith is minimal.

The difference in DPS between a RC'd and non RC'd Wraith is 185dps, which if considered minimal may indicate that the difference in DPS between a RC'd Claymore and Wraith at 59.7dps is also minimal.

Since there wasn't enough paper dps discussion floating around

Relatively speaking, the Claymore does lose a larger portion of dps than Wraith if it is non reload canceled, which is about a 44% vs 24% loss respectively.

[capn233]

Zero132132 wrote...

Doesn't the refire time make that impossible? Actually asking. Otherwise, I might rethink how I use that weapon.

Wraith doesn't have a min refire time stat.  It just has a low ROF (48).

[Learn To Love Yourself]

sy7ar wrote...

what do you think about RC each shot for the Wraith? is it better than RC after 2 shots?

RC time is actually slower than the time between two shots, a common misconception.  I'm pretty sure you knew this already though...

Edit: Oh, are you asking if there is a difference in the time it takes to RC after one shot as opposed to two?  If so, my mistake.  I don't imagine there would be a difference though.  There isn't in any other gun, AFAIK.  This isn't Battlefield or COD 

Modifié par Jack Crapper, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

capn233 wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Because the difference in DPS between a RC-ed Wraith and non RC-ed Wraith is minimal.

The difference in DPS between a RC'd and non RC'd Wraith is 185dps, which if considered minimal may indicate that the difference in DPS between a RC'd Claymore and Wraith at 59.7dps is also minimal.

Since there wasn't enough paper dps discussion floating around

Relatively speaking, the Claymore does lose a larger portion of dps than Wraith if it is non reload canceled, which is about a 44% vs 24% loss respectively.

That's what I meant

[capn233]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

That's what I meant

I figured as much.

There is a lot of talk how the RC'd Claymore destroys the Wraith in DPS.  I just wanted to put some of that in perspective.

I think on Bronze through Gold it doesn't matter a whole lot, since you can oneshot a whole host of enemies with a Wraith, even without stacking a lot of damage bonuses on it.  Practically speaking, I do not think you are reliably one-shotting enemies at range more with the Wraith or the Claymore though, it is almost a wash for the reason Feneckus outlined.  More lower damage pellets on target, or fewer higher damage, you get to choose.

Wraith weighs a whole 0.9, which is less than 50% the weight of a Claymore for ~70% damage per shot.  Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't.

I will say that when I first got my Wraith a long time ago it compared very poorly with my Claymore X.  So if someone out there has a low level Wraith, then just keep it in the gun safe and wait for it to get to a high level.  It then starts making sense.