193 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk]

lazysundae wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

lazysundae wrote...

himohillo wrote...

Females are more valuable at giving births during war. Survival ain't going to happen without them.

Oh geez here we go.

Also, who will cook dinner for all the hungry soldiers, and do their laundry?  <_<

You are missing his point. The female of the species has intrinsic value. 99% of the males of a species could die out but you would only need 1% or less to impregnate females. This is why male life has less intrinsic value than female life. Women=limiting factor in reproduction.

Somehow this thread has gone to applying real world gender roles in a video game full of futuristic aliens.  I admit to being at least partially responsible.

In an attempt to add some levity I'm going to ask "how is babby formed?"

It was inevitable because the premise of the thread (all claims of the authoress to the contrary notwithstanding) is based on real world perceptions (false though they may be) of some kind of gender bias that favours males over females. In other words, the topic and her interest in the topic did not spring forth from thin air.

Modifié par Stardusk, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:19 .

[Nissun]

Stardusk wrote...


You are missing his point. The female of the species has intrinsic value. 99% of the males of a species could die out but you would only need 1% or less to impregnate females. This is why male life has less intrinsic value than female life. Women=limiting factor in reproduction.

First of all: we're talking about a videogame.

Second: even if we were talking about real life, talking like that makes you sound like a psychopa-


-you know what? I don't care. You want to talk about people like they are pieces in a chess board, go ahead. Pat yourself in the back.





On topic: Yes to Turian and Krogan women on multiplayer! Because some of us like having character variety. I mean, if Stardusk had designed this game, all characters would look identical. Probably like the default male human soldier. Because who likes having fun, am I right?

Modifié par Nissun, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[Ledgend1221]

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

[Stardusk]

Nissun wrote...

Stardusk wrote...


You are missing his point. The female of the species has intrinsic value. 99% of the males of a species could die out but you would only need 1% or less to impregnate females. This is why male life has less intrinsic value than female life. Women=limiting factor in reproduction.

First of all: we're talking about a videogame.

Second: even if we were talking about real life, talking like that makes you sound like a psychopa-


-you know what? I don't care. You want to talk about people like they are pieces in a chess board, go ahead. Pat yourself in the back.





On topic: Yes to Turian and Krogan women on multiplayer! Because some of us like having character variety. I mean, if Stardusk had designed this game, all characters would look identical. Probably like the default male human soldier. Because who likes having fun, am I right?

I did not say I liked the system. That is how the world works. Ever ask yourself why (I assume you have not) why 90% of the homeless are male? for the reasons I cited above. Men are perceived as having less value because they are not the limiting factor in reproduction.

[Apl_Juice]

This isn't the real world, Its Mass Effect multiplayer.

There are no gender issues and inequality here. Its just you and 3 other people using a tool (the character and loadout) to overcome a challenge (defeat the enemies and extract).

Kits are not representative of actual, real-world gender; they are eye-candy there for you to deepen the experience. Gender in this game is, quite literally, non-existent. The only differences are voice and character model, which boils down to '****** + smaller frame" or "No ****** + larger frame".

If there was actual value in making more genders available (such as characterization and story), then I'd be all for it. But as it is now, its pointless. ME3MP's strength is in its gameplay. Gender has nothing to do with that.

And in a totally unrelated note, women are more valuable, from a reproductive standpoint. Women have to go through pregnancy to have a child and that, at least for humans, is 9 months. All a guy has to do is bust a nut, and he can do that as much as he wants with as many women as he wants. Not to mention the fact that Salarian and Krogan women are incredibly rare/valuable; it would be stupid to risk them at war, even the Reaper war. Yes, there are dissidents to that social norm, but not enough to validate representation and model development in the MP.

[Abraham_uk]

Happy Shepard wrote...

Nobody evar had this idea before you. Congratulations!

You are now an official member of the BSN creativity club. Welcome!

It's not about being the first...

He/she is just asking.

[himohillo]

Nissun wrote...

First of all: we're talking about a videogame.

Second: even if we were talking about real life, talking like that makes you sound like a psychopa-


-you know what? I don't care. You want to talk about people like they are pieces in a chess board, go ahead. Pat yourself in the back.

Ruthless calculus, just like Garrus said. You can't win if you're trying to save everyone, you have to make sacrifices at some point.

But I guess this is one of those things where it comes down to the perspective.

[Nissun]

Stardusk wrote...

I did not say I liked the system. That is how the world works. Ever ask yourself why (I assume you have not) why 90% of the homeless are male? for the reasons I cited above. Men are perceived as having less value because they are not the limiting factor in reproduction.

Maybe we should stop thinking like animals, then, and stop that reasoning. Even if what you say is right, that less men are required than women to produce offspring and guarantee the survival of the human race, oh God we're living in the 21st century, man. World population is on the billions. There is no need to shelter women and disposing of men is just wrong. How about we treat everybody like human beigns, despite their ability to have babies.

Damn. Seriously.

And what the hell does that have to do with people wanting a new character model anyway?

[Nissun]

Oh and, by the way: the fact that they dropped the words "turian cabals" in this weekend's operation description makes me strongly think the next DLC will have at least a turian adept. And since they actually worked on Nyreen's model, why not use it?

I mean, if they get rid of her facepaint, she'd look as generic as the default turian soldier and sentinel.

[Stardusk]

Nissun wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

I did not say I liked the system. That is how the world works. Ever ask yourself why (I assume you have not) why 90% of the homeless are male? for the reasons I cited above. Men are perceived as having less value because they are not the limiting factor in reproduction.

Maybe we should stop thinking like animals, then, and stop that reasoning. Even if what you say is right, that less men are required than women to produce offspring and guarantee the survival of the human race, oh God we're living in the 21st century, man. World population is on the billions. There is no need to shelter women and disposing of men is just wrong. How about we treat everybody like human beigns, despite their ability to have babies.

Damn. Seriously.

And what the hell does that have to do with people wanting a new character model anyway?

I agree with you 100% We don't need to do what we have always done but it continues nonetheless. Some are trying to change it but it is difficult to change behaviour that we have engaged in for millenia.

[Stardusk]

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

[painforest]

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

[lazysundae]

Stardusk wrote...

Nissun wrote...

Stardusk wrote...


You are missing his point. The female of the species has intrinsic value. 99% of the males of a species could die out but you would only need 1% or less to impregnate females. This is why male life has less intrinsic value than female life. Women=limiting factor in reproduction.

First of all: we're talking about a videogame.

Second: even if we were talking about real life, talking like that makes you sound like a psychopa-


-you know what? I don't care. You want to talk about people like they are pieces in a chess board, go ahead. Pat yourself in the back.





On topic: Yes to Turian and Krogan women on multiplayer! Because some of us like having character variety. I mean, if Stardusk had designed this game, all characters would look identical. Probably like the default male human soldier. Because who likes having fun, am I right?

I did not say I liked the system. That is how the world works. Ever ask yourself why (I assume you have not) why 90% of the homeless are male? for the reasons I cited above. Men are perceived as having less value because they are not the limiting factor in reproduction.

I feel like the homeless and reproductive value are two tangentially linked stats at best. 

You keep mentioning that historically men have been held in a position of lesser value, when in society and real world applications, it is the women who are held in a position of lesser value, often because of reproductive issues.  Additionally, by continually insisting that the value of women is tied to their ability to reproduce, you're implying that women that can't or don't want to reproduce hold little value.

I would go more in depth if you'd like - I am holding back due to where we are.

[Nissun]

Stardusk wrote...

I agree with you 100% We don't need to do what we have always done but it continues nonetheless. Some are trying to change it but it is difficult to change behaviour that we have engaged in for millenia.

Then why bring this up in a discussion about the fictional females of a fictional alien race joining the fight or not? what does it matter?


And about this...

Stardusk wrote...


I think you are imagining things. The entire Asari race is female and how many do we have now? 5. It is a game. It is not meant to be realistic in any sense (if it were there would be even fewer females). 

And still, the Soldier class only has one female character. So they are unable to get rid of the conventions that rule our society, even for a goddamn science fiction game.

[Ledgend1221]

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Equality is overrated.
Complain about it somewhere that actually gives a damn.
Feminism, what a joke.

[Stardusk]

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Considering that feminism is an ideology of female supremacy and essentially a hate movement, yes, I'd say it's a bad thing.

[Apl_Juice]

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Nah, its actually business. Why waste resources on models that aren't important? That's like saying the game is biased to fat people, children, skinny people, amputees, and whatever other crap because BioWare didn't bother to create models. BioWare obviously values the female gender; just look at some of the females' characterizations. Eve, Bastila, and Kriea are probably my favorite BioWare characters, and they're all female.

[RedJohn]

what one has to read on the internet....


by the way, they don't add male and females options for each kit because of a space thing, DLC would weight much more for something unnecesary.

[painforest]

Stardusk wrote...

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Considering that feminism is an ideology of female supremacy and essentially a hate movement, yes, I'd say it's a bad thing.

AHAHAHAH Oh god. No wait, are you serious? Actually, reading your other posts, I think you might be. BSN, you never fail to bring the crazy.

[Nissun]

Apl_J wrote...

Nah, its actually business. Why waste resources on models that aren't important? That's like saying the game is biased to fat people, children, skinny people, amputees, and whatever other crap because BioWare didn't bother to create models. BioWare obviously values the female gender; just look at some of the females' characterizations. Eve, Bastila, and Kriea are probably my favorite BioWare characters, and they're all female.

Bioware does adress some gender issues admirably, but you just can't ignore the all-female race of supersexual blue women. Just saying.

[painforest]

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Nah, its actually business. Why waste resources on models that aren't important? That's like saying the game is biased to fat people, children, skinny people, amputees, and whatever other crap because BioWare didn't bother to create models. BioWare obviously values the female gender; just look at some of the females' characterizations. Eve, Bastila, and Kriea are probably my favorite BioWare characters, and they're all female.

The fact that you think that 50% of a population "aren't important" proves my point.

[Storm-Reaver]

Turian cabal theory is now dominant training paradigm. © Operation Detonator.  

[Stardusk]

lazysundae wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Nissun wrote...

Stardusk wrote...


You are missing his point. The female of the species has intrinsic value. 99% of the males of a species could die out but you would only need 1% or less to impregnate females. This is why male life has less intrinsic value than female life. Women=limiting factor in reproduction.

First of all: we're talking about a videogame.

Second: even if we were talking about real life, talking like that makes you sound like a psychopa-


-you know what? I don't care. You want to talk about people like they are pieces in a chess board, go ahead. Pat yourself in the back.





On topic: Yes to Turian and Krogan women on multiplayer! Because some of us like having character variety. I mean, if Stardusk had designed this game, all characters would look identical. Probably like the default male human soldier. Because who likes having fun, am I right?

I did not say I liked the system. That is how the world works. Ever ask yourself why (I assume you have not) why 90% of the homeless are male? for the reasons I cited above. Men are perceived as having less value because they are not the limiting factor in reproduction.

I feel like the homeless and reproductive value are two tangentially linked stats at best. 

You keep mentioning that historically men have been held in a position of lesser value, when in society and real world applications, it is the women who are held in a position of lesser value, often because of reproductive issues.  Additionally, by continually insisting that the value of women is tied to their ability to reproduce, you're implying that women that can't or don't want to reproduce hold little value.

I would go more in depth if you'd like - I am holding back due to where we are.

It is not tangentially linked since human society (we are animals after all) is driven by reproduction. 

It depends on what you consider lesser value. Women and children first? When it comes to life, women always take primary position. Women are free to do what they want, I am merely asserting that our perceptions of the sexes are based on millenia of evolution where females had more value (in terms of life and health) than males. 80% of females in the past lived on to reproduce, Only 40% of males did. This is an indication of the circumstances we evolved under. In that sense yes, women were held back in a certain regard because they were regarded as precious treasures and one seeks to guard one's treasure as best one can. Men were and remain disposable utilities, work horses, soldiers, etc.