193 réponses à ce sujet

[Nissun]

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

I like this human! *headbutts*

[RedJohn]

no haven't seen anything 

Modifié par RedJohn, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Crypticqa]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Equality is overrated.

Said by a guy.
Riiiight.

[painforest]

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

Uh, not shaving your legs doesn't make you a feminist..and no feminist I know supports female world domination or wtfever. But yeah, the fact that you want to see some semblance of equality in this game kinda does make you a feminist. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Modifié par painforest, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Riot Inducer]

So...I was going to comment about how I thought it would be cool to include female turians now that we have seen them in game, because you know, more variety is good. But then I noticed some people had apparently opened up a very big can of worms and started smearing them on the walls...kinda killed my appetite for discussion.

[Stardusk]

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Oh yeah!
Playing females is much more fun then characters with interesting powers!
Man who needs actual variety when we can have cosmetic variety?

It's not cosmetic. It's sexism. You don't see this crap in the recent halos. You get one character, you choose female or male. (now days) This system should have been implemented with the characters in the ME3 MP. But sure, Whatever. This isn't halo.

When they had a male and a female human, at the start up (New release), character for each class I thought they were going to be fair about this and release male and female versions of each of the playable species. 
The only fairness in the instance of gender has been the men getting a male to play as. 
I'm all for bringing on new skills, maps, and what have you. But not as much as I am all for stomping out this ugly sexiest behaviors in mulitplayer. 

Ah, the feminist is revealed. Multiplayer is sexist now...because not every race has equal sex representation. Yes, of course. Good one.

You say feminist like it's a bad thing. And essentially, yes. It's not just that every race doesn't have equal representation. It's that there's no where CLOSE to equal representation. And that's partially because Bioware didn't put time into making female models. So, yes. That is sexism.

Nah, its actually business. Why waste resources on models that aren't important? That's like saying the game is biased to fat people, children, skinny people, amputees, and whatever other crap because BioWare didn't bother to create models. BioWare obviously values the female gender; just look at some of the females' characterizations. Eve, Bastila, and Kriea are probably my favorite BioWare characters, and they're all female.

It's always just about the money.

[RedJohn]

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women"

by wikipedia


so no, it isn't a hate thing.

[Apl_Juice]

painforest wrote...
The fact that you think that 50% of a population "aren't important" proves my point. 

Never said that, way to jump to conclusions.

I said their representations aren't important. Just the same as a painting with a man in it doesn't require a female's.

It isn't financially sound to model and voice, for example, a female Drell if she won't utilized in some way. Creating an entirely new model and voice is pointless if she's just going to be walking around the Citadel doing nothing. Also, did you have a response to the rest of my post, or are you just going to make selective arguments?

[Apl_Juice]

Nissun wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Nah, its actually business. Why waste resources on models that aren't important? That's like saying the game is biased to fat people, children, skinny people, amputees, and whatever other crap because BioWare didn't bother to create models. BioWare obviously values the female gender; just look at some of the females' characterizations. Eve, Bastila, and Kriea are probably my favorite BioWare characters, and they're all female.

Bioware does adress some gender issues admirably, but you just can't ignore the all-female race of supersexual blue women. Just saying.

I'm not. Asari are (mostly) fanservice, but you can't say that's their only identifier. Aside from some of them being overtly sexual, they're still portrayed as the most powerful race in the galaxy in a tasteful fashion.

[Stardusk]

painforest wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

Uh, not shaving your legs doesn't make you a feminist..and no feminist I know supports female world domination or wtfever. But yeah, the fact that you want to see some semblance of equality in this game kinda does make you a feminist. And there's nothing wrong with that.

With women controlling 70%-80% of all disposable income world wide and well as being the HUGE majority of consumers, it's safe to argue that goals of feminism are being advanced.

[Grammaton Dryad]

I don't even know why ledgend1221 posts in these threads, all of them come out trolly.

As for entertaining stardusk at all on this topic is pointless. If you looked up his non-gaming youtube account vids you'd understand his perspective on women, which is in part highlighted in his comments here.

I'm glad these threads keep showing up, that's how bioware will get the message that it is important to some of the fanbase and add them. For those that believe in democracy, the minority is important for pluralism. And there really isn't any excuse, or problem, with adding a female turian.

Modifié par Grammaton Dryad, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[Nissun]

Stardusk wrote...

painforest wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

Uh, not shaving your legs doesn't make you a feminist..and no feminist I know supports female world domination or wtfever. But yeah, the fact that you want to see some semblance of equality in this game kinda does make you a feminist. And there's nothing wrong with that.

With women controlling 70%-80% of all disposable income world wide and well as being the HUGE majority of consumers, it's safe to argue that goals of feminism are being advanced.

That's fine, and all. I'd just want some more fine male booty   male nudity appreciation of the male form in my videogames. 

And not neccesarily human, if you know what I mean...

[painforest]

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...
The fact that you think that 50% of a population "aren't important" proves my point. 

Never said that, way to jump to conclusions.

I said their representations aren't important. Just the same as a painting with a man in it doesn't require a female's.

It isn't financially sound to model and voice, for example, a female Drell if she won't utilized in some way. Creating an entirely new model and voice is pointless if she's just going to be walking around the Citadel doing nothing. Also, did you have a response to the rest of my post, or are you just going to make selective arguments?

"Why waste resources on models that aren't important?"

This is what you said. Female models are not important and not worth modeling. This is the implication of your statement. How is this not sexist? And yes, it would be awesome if they were "utilized". Duh. That's the point. That females are incorporated in to the greater narrative in a meaningful way and not just handwaved away.

[Apl_Juice]

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

 BioWare doesn't have to represent every female of every race; they accuractly and tastefully represent women in dozens and dozens of other ways. Not getting what you want does NOT equate to sexism and you should be ashamed of whining about it.

[Stardusk]

RedJohn wrote...

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women"

by wikipedia


so no, it isn't a hate thing.

You might excel at MP, but you have to much to learn if you are going to simply rely on wikipedia articles for definitions. 

"I feel that "man-hating" is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them""Lesbianism and Feminism: Synonyms or Contradictions?", in Going Too Far: The Personal Chronicle of a Feminist, p 178.[/list]No hatred there, huh?

[painforest]

Stardusk wrote...

painforest wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

Uh, not shaving your legs doesn't make you a feminist..and no feminist I know supports female world domination or wtfever. But yeah, the fact that you want to see some semblance of equality in this game kinda does make you a feminist. And there's nothing wrong with that.

With women controlling 70%-80% of all disposable income world wide and well as being the HUGE majority of consumers, it's safe to argue that goals of feminism are being advanced.

I don't know where you're getting that statistic, but I'm not going to argue about it because this isn't the place. To a certain extent, I would agree with you about feminism making meaningful changes, but only in the western world. Female dominance has yet to take hold in many underdeveloped parts of the world. Be afraid, men. Be very afraid.

[painforest]

Stardusk wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women"

by wikipedia


so no, it isn't a hate thing.

You might excel at MP, but you have to much to learn if you are going to simply rely on wikipedia articles for definitions. 

"I feel that "man-hating" is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them""Lesbianism and Feminism: Synonyms or Contradictions?", in Going Too Far: The Personal Chronicle of a Feminist, p 178.[/list]No hatred there, huh?

Just stop. Why don't you link to the comment section of one of your MRA sites if you're going to cherrypick nasty quotes? 

[Apl_Juice]

painforest wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...
The fact that you think that 50% of a population "aren't important" proves my point. 

Never said that, way to jump to conclusions.

I said their representations aren't important. Just the same as a painting with a man in it doesn't require a female's.

It isn't financially sound to model and voice, for example, a female Drell if she won't utilized in some way. Creating an entirely new model and voice is pointless if she's just going to be walking around the Citadel doing nothing. Also, did you have a response to the rest of my post, or are you just going to make selective arguments?

"Why waste resources on models that aren't important?"

This is what you said. Female models are not important and not worth modeling. This is the implication of your statement. How is this not sexist? And yes, it would be awesome if they were "utilized". Duh. That's the point. That females are incorporated in to the greater narrative in a meaningful way and not just handwaved away.

THEY ARENT IMPORTANT TO THE GAME, NOT TO REAL LIFE. Again with the assumptions. 

Every fictional universe, especially ones that are as expensive as the ones in video games, don't have the resources to create every variation of every single person or object in the game. The game says there are females of each race. They don't have to go around modelling everything that exists in the universe. That's STUPID.

Also, females aren't incorporated into the narrative? Tali, Liara, and Eve are three characters who make HUGE differences in the game, and are female. Not to mention SHEPARD herself.

[Stardusk]

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

painforest wrote...

Data7 wrote...

Oh ffs.
I have to be considered a FEMINIST because I see SEXISM where it is?
I don't support not shaving ones legs, I don't support not wearing a bra. I don't support 'womens world domination'.
I just want a goddamn female krogan rebel who fought in the rachni wars, who wants to fight in the reaper wars; because it's (by what she thinks) the last war of the cycle. REGARDLESS if she has the genophage or not. (because either way that leaves time to fight)

Uh, not shaving your legs doesn't make you a feminist..and no feminist I know supports female world domination or wtfever. But yeah, the fact that you want to see some semblance of equality in this game kinda does make you a feminist. And there's nothing wrong with that.

With women controlling 70%-80% of all disposable income world wide and well as being the HUGE majority of consumers, it's safe to argue that goals of feminism are being advanced.

I don't know where you're getting that statistic, but I'm not going to argue about it because this isn't the place. To a certain extent, I would agree with you about feminism making meaningful changes, but only in the western world. Female dominance has yet to take hold in many underdeveloped parts of the world. Be afraid, men. Be very afraid.

Plenty of men are afraid, especially in the West, so you have done a great job in that regard. Fathers afraid they will never see their children again after divorce court are but one example. At least you are honest about what feminism is about, female dominance.

[Stardusk]

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women"

by wikipedia


so no, it isn't a hate thing.

You might excel at MP, but you have to much to learn if you are going to simply rely on wikipedia articles for definitions. 

"I feel that "man-hating" is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them""Lesbianism and Feminism: Synonyms or Contradictions?", in Going Too Far: The Personal Chronicle of a Feminist, p 178.[/list]No hatred there, huh?

Just stop. Why don't you link to the comment section of one of your MRA sites if you're going to cherrypick nasty quotes? 

I don't need to. It's from Robin Morgan and can be found anywhere on the internet, you of course must know her, a famed radical feminist and writer. 

[painforest]

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

painforest wrote...
The fact that you think that 50% of a population "aren't important" proves my point. 

Never said that, way to jump to conclusions.

I said their representations aren't important. Just the same as a painting with a man in it doesn't require a female's.

It isn't financially sound to model and voice, for example, a female Drell if she won't utilized in some way. Creating an entirely new model and voice is pointless if she's just going to be walking around the Citadel doing nothing. Also, did you have a response to the rest of my post, or are you just going to make selective arguments?

"Why waste resources on models that aren't important?"

This is what you said. Female models are not important and not worth modeling. This is the implication of your statement. How is this not sexist? And yes, it would be awesome if they were "utilized". Duh. That's the point. That females are incorporated in to the greater narrative in a meaningful way and not just handwaved away.

THEY ARENT IMPORTANT TO THE GAME, NOT TO REAL LIFE. Again with the assumptions. 

Every fictional universe, especially ones that are as expensive as the ones in video games, don't have the resources to create every variation of every single person or object in the game. The game says there are females of each race. They don't have to go around modelling everything that exists in the universe. That's STUPID.

Also, females aren't incorporated into the narrative? Tali, Liara, and Eve are three characters who make HUGE differences in the game, and are female. Not to mention SHEPARD herself.

Yes. And can you explain why modeling the males of a species takes precedent over modeling the females? Why isn't there a race where we only see the females, but the males are on the homeworld tending house and making sandwiches or something? 

"THEY ARENT IMPORTANT TO THE GAME"


Well, okay then.

[lazysundae]

Stardusk wrote...

lazysundae wrote...

*snip*

It is not tangentially linked since human society (we are animals after all) is driven by reproduction. 

It depends on what you consider lesser value. Women and children first? When it comes to life, women always take primary position. Women are free to do what they want, I am merely asserting that our perceptions of the sexes are based on millenia of evolution where females had more value (in terms of life and health) than males. 80% of females in the past lived on to reproduce, Only 40% of males did. This is an indication of the circumstances we evolved under. In that sense yes, women were held back in a certain regard because they were regarded as precious treasures and one seeks to guard one's treasure as best one can. Men were and remain disposable utilities, work horses, soldiers, etc.

What century are you posting from?

Also, do you know the history of "women and children first"?  The British displayed male chivalry at sea to justify denying women the right to vote. According to their argument, there was no reason for women to vote since men would always put the interests of women ahead of their own interests.

Sure, women were regarded as "precious treasures", just like the rest of the property and stuff that often came in dowries and the business-arrangement-known-as-marriage in the time period you're referring too. 

Modifié par lazysundae, 29 novembre 2012 - 08:30 .

[painforest]

Stardusk wrote...

painforest wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women"

by wikipedia


so no, it isn't a hate thing.

You might excel at MP, but you have to much to learn if you are going to simply rely on wikipedia articles for definitions. 

"I feel that "man-hating" is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them""Lesbianism and Feminism: Synonyms or Contradictions?", in Going Too Far: The Personal Chronicle of a Feminist, p 178.[/list]No hatred there, huh?

Just stop. Why don't you link to the comment section of one of your MRA sites if you're going to cherrypick nasty quotes? 

I don't need to. It's from Robin Morgan and can be found anywhere on the internet, you of course must know her, a famed radical feminist and writer. 

Oh wow, a radical 2nd wave feminist who's ideals are completely irrelevant at this point. Yeah, never heard of her.