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[Drakar123]

As we know blood magic is the quickest way for any mage to become incredibly powerful and many resort to it in situations where they are very desperate or if they are power hungry.It's power is the main reason the chantry has locked up mages in circle towers and is the biggest taboo in magic(in countries where the chantry religion is dominant anyway).

Blood magic has been used to destroy Arlathan,enter the fade physcially and accomplsih many other things which would have never been possible otherwise.A single skilled blood mage is said to be capable of taking over a country,something unthinkable for anyone but mages.The chantry believes (and is right) that if mages were allowed to be free it would result in another Tevinter Imperium.This of course is because of the incredible power of blood magic and the complete inability of mundanes to do anything against blood mages.What is it that makes blood magic so powerful ?It can greatly increase a mage's power through using the blood of others yes but it's most fearsome ability is by far mind control.

Cole was able to remain in the White Spire for years without anyone noticing him or realizing he is present because he used mind control to prevent people from seeing or hearing him and erase the memories of anyone who did see him.He could kill a person in broad daylight and nobody would pay attention to what was happening if he didn't want them to.And the best part ?He did all of this subconsciously.With that kind of power he could have walked into a party full of orlesian nobles,killed them all and then left without anyone being able to catch him or know who did it.The demon who possesed Pharamond could effortlesly read people's minds and knew everything there is to know about a person just by looking at them including all of their weakneses and it wasn't a particulary powerful demon either.Just your average pride demon.Any talented mage with training in blood magic could do this which speaks volumes about just how powerful the stronger Magisters of Tevinter are.

By this logc the kind of power the Archon should wield is scary.Like nighmare fuel scary.Seriosuly just imagine someone who could know everything about you just by looking at you and be capable of freely controlling your memories and thoughts without you being able to do anything about it or realizing what is going on.There's a very good reason Tevinter has been around for over 10000 years.

This of course begs a few questions like how the hell did the templars manage to keep mages locked up for 900 years ?!!!With how powerful mind control is any blood mage could just make all the templars let him leave through the front door and give him his phyactery as a parting gift.Random apostate number 41 could have just walked in to the royal palace in any country and taken control of the king without anyone realizing it or even killed the king and made everyone else see and hear him as the king.And do all of you remember that mess in Kirkwall ?Had Orsino or any other blood mage(of which there are a lot of) mind controlled Meredith and the other templars into letting the mages do what they want instead of summoning demons and getting possesed for the lulz then mages could not only free themselves but even mind control the Viscount and sieze power.If the Imperium wanted to conquer the rest of thedas again,all it would have to do is make a few nobles send the country into a civil war until that country's army was too depleted to do anything against them.If they really wanted to they could send a few magisters to talk with the qunari leaders and in doing so sieze power over all the qunari since they would be bilndly obedient to their leader and their leaders would be under the control of the magisters.

These aren't just assumptions on my part.Asunder has shown us just how ridiculous mind control is.Why do you think mages haven't done any of this ?Plot induced stupidity is my personal choice.And what are your thoughts on blood magic ?Evil or just a very poweful tool ?Do you believe it should be banned,regulated or should mages be allowed to use it however they see fit ?Aka Tevinter.I am really curious as to what people think of Blood Magic in general.

[Face of Evil]

1) Mages accepted the Circle system after the "fall" of the Tevinter Imperium due to a very strong anti-magic backlash. (Centuries of slavery and oppression tend to build up some resentment amongst the proles.) For many mages, it was the best option.

2) Blood magic, for all its power, is not infallible. A lone blood mage will still have difficulty contending with angry mobs, and templars are still pretty good at dealing with maleficarum.

3) The Circle system itself tends to weed out potential blood mages. Not every mage believes blood magic is ethical, y'know. Those who are a bit more malleable in their morals tend to be killed or rendered Tranquil.

[Drakar123]

While it's true that they accepted the circle system there was nothing preventing them from leaving if they really wanted to.The templars can do squat against a powerful blood mage with mind control unless he decides to be stupid,slit his wrists and attack them head on...Any apostate skilled in blood magic could get the nearest noble to offer him protection and they'd be set for life.

While not infallible,angry mobs can do nothing against a person they can't see or hear and who could have them change their views without too much difficulty.Really only another blood mage can stop mind control.Mundanes can't do anything against it.

And while the circles do tend to weed out potential blood mages every now and then people like Uldred come along who can corrupt the whole circle.Had he just mind controlled the templars instead of summoning demons,he and all his allies could have left the circle and taken over the throne of Ferelden if they felt so inclined.There would have been the whole Blight issue to deal with but blights are pretty rare.

[Reznore57]

I'm not sure you can just mind control anyone like that...
Cole is a very special case , and he had to kill people which have been noticed by templars.
If he wasn't invisible , I'm pretty sure he would have been caught.

There's a mind control in DA2 , with the prostitute in the Blooming Rose.It requires eyes contact.

I'm not sure you can mind control somebody who's far away , but if you can I'm pretty sure it's not an easy thing.
So you know , you're in a circle , you have to learn blood magic in secret ( not easy) than you have to learn how to mind control (I'm not sure there is a lot of book about it in circles ...) than you have to find some blood , good luck hiding the corpse etc....

About Tevinter , if i remember correctly mind control wasn't the big thing , it was Somniari (people that can shape the fade and enter people 's dream ) .
And Tevinter has its own problem with demons and blood magic.
They have circles and sometimes they kill everybody in it just like the rest of Thedas.
Blood magic is still dangerous for the mage who use it , people from all Thedas still don't know everything about magic and even less about the real power of Blood magic.

The real danger for templars is blood is used instead of mana , so they can't keep the mage from casting.
And there is way to broke mind control , via a Litany.

[Drakar123]

Not everyone can but the powerful blood mages are able to.The only reason Cole's murders were noticed is because once he left nothing was interfering with the minds of the templars so of course they would notice.Had he wanted to he could have erased their memories of the mage he killed,had them clean up the mess and nobody would have found out anything.He could have also had them kill the mage or have the mage kill himself.He wanted to be noticed.He felt it made him alive and all that.

And Cole was clearly able to control people from far away since no one but the people he wanted to were able to see him.He walked right past over 20 templars and if there was a distance limit it was pretty large since the rooms in the circle aren't small if they are supposed to have so many mages in them and none of them could see him.

As for learning blood magic in a circle it's not as hard as you think.There were books on it actually.In Ferelden anyway until the Jowan thing happened.I don't know what the templars were thinking there...Any mage can contact a demon and learn blood magic from them.As long as they have no further contact once the magic is learned and they aren't stupid enough to let the demon in they are all set.There could also turn to the liberaterians.They are bound to find a few blood mages there to learn from.They could also learn it from spirits who would have no interest in possesing them if they wanted to play it safe.

And dreamers are another form of mind control,according to Adralla anyway.She's the magister who invented a counter to every form of mind control including them(the magister who made the littany of adralla which by the way only stops one form of mind control.It can stop a mage or demon during their attempt to mind control someone not after and has no effect on anythng else like sominari for example).The reason regular mind control doesn't work in tevinter is because all the magisters are blood mages and as such can defend against it.Mundanes can't.Sure a magister could be mind controlled by another magister but the difference in power would have to be extremelly large

Blood magic is actually the least dangerous form of magic since it is the only one that has nothing to do with the fade.there is no risk of summoning demons or anything of the like unless you want to.

[sully.nathan]

Yea support blood magic all the way, and I hope if we fight blood mages in Inquisition they are really hard to kill and I hope we have our own way of stopping blood magic effects on our character. In origins fighting a blood mage was difficult but if you were also a blood mage it was really easy.

Modifié par sully.nathan, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:56 .

[Face of Evil]

Drakar123 wrote...

Really only another blood mage can stop mind control. Mundanes can't do anything against it.

Wrong. Mind control can be resisted. You need look no further than Hawke for an example, as s/he is able to shrug off Idunna's blood magic without aid.

Templars are trained to resist blood magic. It's just very hard.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[KingGunDragon]

I wounder if blood magic effect reavers.

[Fredward]

Keep in mind that Cole is a VERY special case here. He's a demon/spirit that merged with some poor kid that everyone totally forgot about, who then promptly forgot that it WAS a spirit/demon. Cole's tragic backstory also lends itself heavily to not being noticed, he hid in a cupboard while his father was killing his mother where he accidentally smothered his little sister. Boiz got issues. Couple this with the fact that Rhys hypothesized that Cole might be a hedge mage, and we learn that their power manifests weirdly. From what we've seen Cole can't cast any other type of magic; his entire being is focused on not being noticed.

So no, I don't think most mages, or any mages really, are capable of Cole's level of mind control.

[Drakar123]

True he is a special case but there is no way a kid who merged with a spirit and forgot about it can have more powerful mind control abilities then tevinter magisters or well trained blood mages.Magisters are people who've practised blood magic all their lives and have more knowledge of it then anyone else.It has been practced since the Imperium's founding in Tevinter (that's around 10000 years...).No spirit or demon should be capable of blood magic on their level.Danarius was able to enslave a great many demons to guard his mantion for instance.They clearly weren't capable of ressisting him.

And while mind control can be resisted in the case of strong willed individuals it is only possible when the blood mage is unskilled.There is no way hawke could have resisted being controlled if the person casting the spell was a magister or anyone who pracitced blood magic for years and had a great deal of experience.Cole's abilities were also something he did without being conciouss of it by the way.The only weird thing about their manifestation was that he did what he did because of personal trauma without intending to.It was standard mind control in every other way.

[vortex216]

Blood Magic is baaaad. It has good reason to be outlawed. NOBODY should be able to control the mind and thoughts of another. The reason why most resort to it is because their back is against the wall or they're curious. The soultion is don't push, and educate apprentices why it's bad without the chantry garbage.

[inarvan]

Blood Magic as it's written is terrifically dangerous and unless the mage using it is scrupulously moral about where the blood comes from, it's almost inevitably tainted by the suffering of others. Definitely should be regulated severely, if not banned entirely.

Of course, as a PC, the blood magic options always seemed sort of pathetic compared to the other available spells of similar level. Apparently only NPCs get the real blood magic goodies.

Modifié par inarvan, 30 novembre 2012 - 04:08 .

[nightscrawl]

Drakar123 wrote...

These aren't just assumptions on my part.Asunder has shown us just how ridiculous mind control is.Why do you think mages haven't done any of this ?Plot induced stupidity is my personal choice.And what are your thoughts on blood magic ?Evil or just a very poweful tool ?Do you believe it should be banned,regulated or should mages be allowed to use it however they see fit ?Aka Tevinter.I am really curious as to what people think of Blood Magic in general.

There have been a few examples of blood magic mind manipulation in the games, and additional ones in the novels. Most of those in the games have either been very brief or stated as second hand information (Avernus). When you discuss this type of element, I think it's important to include in the discussion how such actions would be shown in the game in a mechanical sense. Not only the player witnessing them, but perhaps in using them as well. So when you ask "Why do you think mages haven't done any of this," the answer in part might be because the devs have not yet been able to show such manipulation in the manner that they prefer.

I've always felt that the mind manupilation is the most troublesome aspect of blood magic. We as players dispatch demons by the hundreds in these games, I don't think we need to worry so much about those. I tend to feel that it is a slippery slope. "I'll just push his mind this one time to get a piece of information that will save lives!" Where does that kind of thinking stop?

The best cure is prevention!