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[Fiacre]

I've been replaying DA2 recently, and one thing in particular that I've noticed while playing it again over the last few days is how badly the dialogue sometimes flows. (And no, I guess this isn't a DA2 only problem, but I can't remember noticing it as much in DA:O)

Just now, for example, I was playing through Aveline's Act 3 companion quest and confronted Jeven. My Hawke had sided with Petrice, so I got the special dialogue option "Some of you where with Varnell." I was curious, so I chose it -- Hawke says, "Hear me! I am your Champion! I've stood with you against the Qunari!" while gesticulating and facing the... uh, mob. (The very... tiny mob.) It really is like the start of a speech. It's not something that sounds any good on it's own. But Jeven complains that this isn't about Hakw, the aveline tells him he'll be left with less than nothing this time, and the fight starts.

That works for other dialogue choices. It doesn't for this one. It particularly bothers me because this is agrressive Hawke -- and even should the primary tone have changed by then, this was agrressive Hawke, and one willing to side with Petrice.

Really, I don't even need a speech as a special dialogue option -- just something that flows well.

And it isn't just this scene -- there are a lot of scenes where you end up getting the same results regardless of response that don't flow too well, depending on which option you chose. I'm... not sure how much work it would be to fix this, but I think it could help make the conversations more immersive.

...Or maybe I'm the only one bothered by this particular problem

[ioannisdenton]

No!!! we do not want autodialogue a la ME3!!!!
the flow is fine!!! do not feed them ideas please man!! i beg you!

[TCBC_Freak]

ioannisdenton wrote...

No!!! we do not want autodialogue a la ME3!!!!
the flow is fine!!! do not feed them ideas please man!! i beg you!

What part of the OP made you jump to ME3?

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

[David Gaider]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

We're not using auto-dialogue like it existed in ME3. It will be the same as in DA2-- meaning we only use it when it stems directly off a choice that has already been made or in cutscenes/banter where the line is innocuous (and no opinions are being expressed or decisions made). In fact, there are things that will mean we'll need it even less.

This is just a stylistic difference between Mass Effect's approach and Dragon Age's, and it won't change.

[esper]

You keep alluding to these things, I am very curious as to what they are. (I know; paitence).

I only got the op's scene once in my playthrough, but it worked fine for my Hawke. My Hawke reminded them who she was, Jevan and Aveline interrupted, but a lot still left the scene.

[Fredvdp]

David Gaider wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

We're not using auto-dialogue like it existed in ME3. It will be the same as in DA2-- meaning we only use it when it stems directly off a choice that has already been made or in cutscenes/banter where the line is innocuous (and no opinions are being expressed or decisions made). In fact, there are things that will mean we'll need it even less.

This is just a stylistic difference between Mass Effect's approach and Dragon Age's, and it won't change.

Thank the Maker.

[ioannisdenton]

David Gaider wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

We're not using auto-dialogue like it existed in ME3. It will be the same as in DA2-- meaning we only use it when it stems directly off a choice that has already been made or in cutscenes/banter where the line is innocuous (and no opinions are being expressed or decisions made). In fact, there are things that will mean we'll need it even less.

This is just a stylistic difference between Mass Effect's approach and Dragon Age's, and it won't change.

I <3 you . Da3 preordered

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 01 décembre 2012 - 03:50 .

[Maria Caliban]

I feel bad for the original poster. Even the dev ignored his post.

[Dabrikishaw]

David Gaider wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

We're not using auto-dialogue like it existed in ME3. It will be the same as in DA2-- meaning we only use it when it stems directly off a choice that has already been made or in cutscenes/banter where the line is innocuous (and no opinions are being expressed or decisions made). In fact, there are things that will mean we'll need it even less.

This is just a stylistic difference between Mass Effect's approach and Dragon Age's, and it won't change.

Great.

[Steppenwolf]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but part of why the dialogue in DA2 sometimes felt odd is because the actual lines didn't match what we selected on the wheel. It disrupts the whole scene when you're thinking to yourself "That's not what I wanted to say."
An easy solution would be showing the whole first line of dialogue when you hover over the choice. It might slow down conversations a bit, but it would fix a problem that a lot of people experienced and go a long way to improve our connection to the character.

[Helena Tylena]

BasilKarlo wrote...

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but part of why the dialogue in DA2 sometimes felt odd is because the actual lines didn't match what we selected on the wheel. It disrupts the whole scene when you're thinking to yourself "That's not what I wanted to say."
An easy solution would be showing the whole first line of dialogue when you hover over the choice. It might slow down conversations a bit, but it would fix a problem that a lot of people experienced and go a long way to improve our connection to the character.

I must be one of the only people who only encountered this problem so few times it never bothered me. Both in DA:II and any of the ME games.

And they already pretty much confirmed they're not going to change the paraphrase set-up, only improving on the actual paraphrases. Whatever that means.

[Foolsfolly]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

Honestly i'd argue that in ME2 the conversation flow was just fine. DA2 it was fine. In ME3 they sacrificed dialogue options for more cinematic conversations.Which made "my Shepard" feel like someone else's Shepard at times. It was an unneeded change. If they can make conversations flow better without putting in auto-dialogue than i'll be okay with it. If not than leave it the way it is.

To be honest I didn't think there was a conversation flow problem in ME1, ME2, or DA2. The lack of agency over what Shepard says in ME3 was noted, however. The most aggrivating of them being the time Shepard apologizes and moans and damn near weeps over Thessia when I would have played the entire scene much much more angrily since my Shepard tends to be more Kirk than Picard whenever given the choice.

And he doesn't lose. And he gets angry when he's about to lose.

Other play-throughs would have enjoyed the apologizing sad dialogue and all but that first Shepard wouldn't have said those things. It was a nice big step backwards for the team and franchise.

Nice to know Gaider and Laidlaw aren't going that way... but I believe I've read that a few times now on these boards. Still, nice to hear.

Unrelated, BasilKarlo I saw your name and thought "Isn't that one of the Clayfaces?" Wiki'd Clayface and sure enough. ...made me smile. I disagree with your opinion but it was cool to see the name.

[TCBC_Freak]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I feel bad for the original poster. Even the dev ignored his post.

I don't think he ignored it, he said that it will be mostly like it was in DA:2. So it will flow like it did in that game in most respects I'd assume, question answered I think, right.

[Fiacre]

Huh, I hadn't even seen that people replied to this <.<

I'm also not sure where people get auto dialogue from. I don't like auto dialogue. I don't want it. I haven't played ME3, but I've heard there's a lot of it and that doesn't sound very encouraging at all.

If anything -- using my OPs example, I would have wanted the option stay silent and let the scene play out as it is or to say "Screw you people, I was talking here :|" or something like that. And what I meant by better flow is to have the point were the reactions to different dialogue options converge and the NPC starts to say the same thing regardless of your choice again not feel so awkward.

Like how it felt awkward that Jeven would be all "Not about you, dude :c" and then Aveline starts talking when Hawke was all "Hey, let's address these people and convince them to follow me instead with a grand speech!" Preferably by adding more variation for the NPC dialogue based on your choices, rather than have them say one line and the ignore whatever you said and then say the same thing regardless of your choice.

Or at least, if we use my OPs example again, have Jeven's reaction be more than "Not about you, dude :c", so Hawke shutting up rather than ignoring Jeven would have made sense (and before someone screams autodialogue, one would, preferably, have the ability to either choose the content of that speech, or have a sufficient idea when choosing the initial dialogue option, had the speech happened.)

[Fiacre]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I feel bad for the original poster. Even the dev ignored his post.

I don't think he ignored it, he said that it will be mostly like it was in DA:2. So it will flow like it did in that game in most respects I'd assume, question answered I think, right.

Welll, he talked about auto dialogue, which wasn't what I meant at all, so, uh, maybe there's still hope that what I was actually talking about won't happen as often?

And if it is like DA2 in that respect as well... I can live with it there, I can deal with it happening in DA3.

[Foolsfolly]

People got ME3 because the auto-dialogue in ME3 was an attempt to improve dialogue flow. It means, yes the dialogue behaves much more like it does in a movie... but you lost a key element in role-playing Shepard.

So as a kneejerk reaction most people on these boards will hear 'better flow' and go 'Oh, hell no.'

[Fiacre]

Foolsfolly wrote...

People got ME3 because the auto-dialogue in ME3 was an attempt to improve dialogue flow. It means, yes the dialogue behaves much more like it does in a movie... but you lost a key element in role-playing Shepard.

So as a kneejerk reaction most people on these boards will hear 'better flow' and go 'Oh, hell no.'

Oh! I see. Thank's for explaining.


Also, as far as auto dialogue goes, I just noticed that what Mr Gaider said about how it worked isn't quite true. At least I don't think that sarcastic Hawke's "Hurr hurr cat fight!" reaction when Aveline and Isabela show up at the manor is innocuos. Or his rather lengthy rant when exiting the Chantry after Petrice dies. But it isn't as bad as what I hear about ME3, true.

[Steppenwolf]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Unrelated, BasilKarlo I saw your name and thought "Isn't that one of the Clayfaces?" Wiki'd Clayface and sure enough. ...made me smile. I disagree with your opinion but it was cool to see the name.

Good memory. Nice to see a fellow comic nerd on the BSN.

[Snypy]

David Gaider wrote...
We're not using auto-dialogue like it existed in ME3. It will be the same as in DA2-- meaning we only use it when it stems directly off a choice that has already been made or in cutscenes/banter where the line is innocuous (and no opinions are being expressed or decisions made). In fact, there are things that will mean we'll need it even less.

This is just a stylistic difference between Mass Effect's approach and Dragon Age's, and it won't change.

Glad to hear it. 

[HiroVoid]

Good to hear the auto-dialogue won't be like it was in ME3. While I still definitely have to wait and see previews and videos of DA3, I'm enjoying what I'm hearing so far.

[Herr Uhl]

Filament wrote...

To be honest I felt this was more of an issue in ME than in DA. A lot of times I would feel jarred by the obvious 'fake branching' dialog, where you'd have a branching path and then all choices would be hamfistedly merged back into the same response that didn't feel right depending on which option you chose. Instead of being an actual branch, it's a cord splayed down the middle and connected at both ends.

It was hilarious in ME3 when you stood and listened in on arguments and then supported someone, followed by them ignoring you and finding the obvious solution to both their problems.