271 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSpiral]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

The lyrium is only for control and addiction I believe.

Even so - there's two branches of the Spirit tree that concentrate on anti-magic and any enterprising Lucrosian would jump at a wealthy man paying them to hunt down mages.

No, it's been confirmed that lyrium does indeed give templars their powers.

Confirmed, as in by the devs, or by other characters in the game/books/etc?  If the latter, a source, if you don't mind?  I'd like to read that one.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Both by the devs and in the short story involving Anders/Justice killing templars

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Both by the devs and in the short story involving Anders/Justice killing templars

Well, apparently it doesn't give them their powers so much as it enhances them.

[Auintus]

So basic magic is clearly mandatory, as a mage warden has no difficulty learning or executing spells. They start off with Arcane Bolt, which is under the spirit school as Spirit Bolt in DA2. Considering that that school also has Dispel Magic, it should probably be required knowledge for Circle mages. A degree of work in the Creation school should probably be mandatory as well.

Modifié par Auintus, 04 décembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[DarkSpiral]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Both by the devs and in the short story involving Anders/Justice killing templars

You're inferring that lyrium is the source of templar's powers from a single line in thw Ander's short story.  It doesn't say that it does, it says it allowed Rolan to resist the spell.

Alistair, on the other hand, flat out state that you don't need lyrium to learn the Templar's tricks, it just makes them more effective.

If you have an actual source for confirmation, I'd like to read it.  Especially if its from a dev.  Because I'm done some google searches and read the books and seen teh discussion on the wiki, and this forum, and can't find genuine confirmation one way or the other.  So, currently its a grey area.

[brushyourteeth]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Both by the devs and in the short story involving Anders/Justice killing templars

You're inferring that lyrium is the source of templar's powers from a single line in thw Ander's short story.  It doesn't say that it does, it says it allowed Rolan to resist the spell.

Alistair, on the other hand, flat out state that you don't need lyrium to learn the Templar's tricks, it just makes them more effective.

If you have an actual source for confirmation, I'd like to read it.  Especially if its from a dev.  Because I'm done some google searches and read the books and seen teh discussion on the wiki, and this forum, and can't find genuine confirmation one way or the other.  So, currently its a grey area.

Yeah, if Alistair's assertions turn out to be false, that's a serious, SERIOUS flaw in the mechanics of the game, as neither Alistair nor any tempar-specialized protagonist ever needs to guzzle lyrium. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Heh, like it would be the first time the mechanics gave a middle finger to the lore.

[brushyourteeth]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Heh, like it would be the first time the mechanics gave a middle finger to the lore.

True enough, but MAN. That would just be inexcusably blatant.

[The Elder King]

I remember a post/blog/something else from Gaider that said that the templar's abilities should work only with lyrium ingested, that how it works in DAO and DA2 is a gameplat issue (and a wrong dialogue with Alistair), and that they were thinking of making the templars's spec based requiring lyrium. I'd love if for specializing in the templar the PC has to ingest lyrium, and that there are some dialogues or contents about it.

[Daerog]

hhh89 wrote...

I remember a post/blog/something else from Gaider that said that the templar's abilities should work only with lyrium ingested, that how it works in DAO and DA2 is a gameplat issue (and a wrong dialogue with Alistair), and that they were thinking of making the templars's spec based requiring lyrium. I'd love if for specializing in the templar the PC has to ingest lyrium, and that there are some dialogues or contents about it.

Well, if they continue with the idea that one's spec influences the game more than just what abilities are open to you, they could have it so a templar has a lyrium bar that gets drained by absorbing spells or doing antimagic stuff, and it doesn't auto replenish, but needs the player to drink some lyrium.

The long term affects of lyrium don't need to be in game as the game won't take decades... maybe...

Although, I would wish them to apply resources to more important things first as I don't see it as central, but it is odd that picking blood mage or templar doesn't have impact on other people. Such as a templar being shunned by mages or having people go silent and whisper when a blood mage walks into camp.

[DarkSpiral]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Heh, like it would be the first time the mechanics gave a middle finger to the lore.

This is true.  And it may yet turn out that Templars DO need lyrium to learn and maintain their powers.  Would I enjoy the fact this means that several of my Wardens and most of my Hawkes have been using lyrium "off camera."  Hell no!  I'm just sayiong it has NOT been confirmed.  At least not anywhere I've read.  And pointint out that such things have happened in the past isn't, in fact, confirmation.

[Daerog]

TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

There are likely other places, like some forum posts, but "The Maker" has stated that Templars do need the lyrium to do their job. It even says in the spec information in DA2 that the templars use carefully ingested lyrium to get templar abilities, and hints that Hawke just gets it through other means besides the Chantry.

[DarkSpiral]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

[/i]http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

Awesomesauce.  Thanks, Daerog.

EDIT: Thansk twice, in fact.  That was a good read.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 05 décembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[The Elder King]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...


Well, if they continue with the idea that one's spec influences the game more than just what abilities are open to you, they could have it so a templar has a lyrium bar that gets drained by absorbing spells or doing antimagic stuff, and it doesn't auto replenish, but needs the player to drink some lyrium.

The long term affects of lyrium don't need to be in game as the game won't take decades... maybe...

Although, I would wish them to apply resources to more important things first as I don't see it as central, but it is odd that picking blood mage or templar doesn't have impact on other people. Such as a templar being shunned by mages or having people go silent and whisper when a blood mage walks into camp.

I wasn't talking abotu the long-term affects. I was talking about dialogues like people insulting you, claiming you're a drug addict. Or gameplay features like the one you posted, and  like people reacting differently based on your specializations.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey.

Interesting tidbit

[TEWR]

DaerogtheDhampir wrote...

There are likely other places, like some forum posts, but "The Maker" has stated that Templars do need the lyrium to do their job. It even says in the spec information in DA2 that the templars use carefully ingested lyrium to get templar abilities, and hints that Hawke just gets it through other means besides the Chantry.

Problem is that they wrote Alistair to say that he's never ingested lyrium in the way the Templars take it, in DAO. He'll say that when Templars take their vows, they ingest lyrium for the first time. But he never took his vows.

So it's not that Alistair uses it for a long time "after having stopped ingesting lyrium". He's never ingested lyrium the way the Templars do in his life. Then he says that he was taught that lyrium simply amplifies Templar powers, IIRC.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Retcon.

Templars need lyrium is a new fact.

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DaerogtheDhampir wrote...

There are likely other places, like some forum posts, but "The Maker" has stated that Templars do need the lyrium to do their job. It even says in the spec information in DA2 that the templars use carefully ingested lyrium to get templar abilities, and hints that Hawke just gets it through other means besides the Chantry.

Problem is that they wrote Alistair to say that he's never ingested lyrium in the way the Templars take it, in DAO. He'll say that when Templars take their vows, they ingest lyrium for the first time. But he never took his vows.

So it's not that Alistair uses it for a long time "after having stopped ingesting lyrium". He's never ingested lyrium the way the Templars do in his life. Then he says that he was taught that lyrium simply amplifies Templar powers, IIRC.

This concerns me too. 

[Dethares]

How magic should be handeled

- lyrium raw substance that produces a connection (a sense) towards mana (what powers magical abilities), it's blue and it's addictive to creatures that don't naturally possess the ability of weilding magic

- red lyrium is corrupted (by demons?) lyrium that apparently makes you a schizo and a psychopath and it's very RARE and is also addictive

- templars use lyrium to enhance their sense of an individuals mana thus they can manipulate the source of power of mages, their mana and that's how they fight

- sensing ones mana doesn't mean your doing magic and there's more than one way to do so like deep concentration, ex. meditation

- for the Circle they should separate from the supervision of the chantry and templars and have their own institution where they look after their own as in they would also be carrying the templar duties of punishing mages that do harm to others (cause havoc)

- people FREELY go to this institution to learn about magic (senstive or not) and no magic sensitive individual is obligated to do so but they're highly recommended to do so to prevent future consequences

- the point is for the Circle to treat and give mages basic human rights, so abolishing the use of imprisonment and the practice of tranquility

- the Circle funds itself through mage like services that have now increased drastically instead of the chantry

- practice of the Forbidden School is not allowed within the Circle thats pretty much everything that is frowned upon such as blood magic (mage or not; there is a reason to fear blood magic), shapeshifting, and any spirit dealings (mostly individual manipultaions that one can't notice and easily take advantage of)

- and I'm not asking I'm telling people solutions and just how I told people how the action/fighting in DA3 should be handled http://social.biowar...dex/14137712/83 specifically button to button use via xbox since its harder to get it on a concole due to less buttons

[Little Princess Peach]

I still don't see why they can't have schools like we do in real life, they can still have there templars, and such but the mages would be able to return home at the end of the day, unless there orphans then they can have the choice of staying at the tower or not.

[DarkSpiral]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I still don't see why they can't have schools like we do in real life, they can still have there templars, and such but the mages would be able to return home at the end of the day, unless there orphans then they can have the choice of staying at the tower or not.

Chiefly because they'd be in danger.  The common folk, usually due to fear of demons and what happens to a mage if they get possessed, hate magic and the people that can use it.  Lynch mobs and the like are a very real possibility.  The idea of the Circle is that it protects the mages from the world as much as it protects the world from mages.  The current version is doing a fairly lousy job of it, but the founding idea was sound.

[Daerog]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I still don't see why they can't have schools like we do in real life, they can still have there templars, and such but the mages would be able to return home at the end of the day, unless there orphans then they can have the choice of staying at the tower or not.

Chiefly because they'd be in danger.  The common folk, usually due to fear of demons and what happens to a mage if they get possessed, hate magic and the people that can use it.  Lynch mobs and the like are a very real possibility.  The idea of the Circle is that it protects the mages from the world as much as it protects the world from mages.  The current version is doing a fairly lousy job of it, but the founding idea was sound.

Also, the fact that child mages should have senior mages on hand at any time. What if they are having troubling dreams? The non mage parent can't just say "oh it was only a dream, go back to sleep." They need to stay at the tower, for quick resources and protection. It is pretty much a year long boarding school. Trusted mages who pass the harrowing should be able to leave, but they should check at reasonable intervals to make sure how they are doing and such. Make sure the crown doesn't nab them or whatever.

Although, parents should be able to visit them, well, at least poor families with little ties can't see their mage children and rich families do what they wish, but it should be universally allowed.... I can't think of a strong argument against it other than smuggling contraband, but that seems to happen anyway...