271 réponses à ce sujet

[TCBC_Freak]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
With the system as it currently is, no wonder mages get angry or bored and turn to blood magic. It's what's expected of them. It's what the system raises them for -- all so that the cycle can be reinforced and repeated again and again. Let them have something else: great punishment for wrong, but great honor for doing right. Let them know that, like anyone, they'll be cut down for breaking the law -- but that, like anyone, they can achieve great honor within their sphere of influence and a place in history for using their gifts for the benefit of others. Most mages would be plenty content with that.

This exactly. DA2 makes the situation in Kirkwall sound exceptional with the Knight Commander constantly pressuring the mages and them turning to blood magic or turning apostate to fight this. But really this is taking place on a grand scale all over the Circles. The templars are addicted to lyrium, they get lyrium to combat mages, they NEED mages to be dangerous otherwise their existence is no longer justified. So as long as their are lyrium-swilling templars around a greater than average amount of mages are going to turn to blood magic or turn into abominations. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Think about it. The greatest number of mages we've seen become blood mages and abominations have done so to fight the Chantry/Circle/templars remove those restrictions and the rate of magic abuse also drops.

The greatest number we've seen maybe, but not that we have heard about. Before the fall of old Tevinter it was run by blood mages, but there were no Templar. In modern Tevinter the Templar are like lapdogs to the mages, they have no power and are just for show, yet it is run by blood mages.

You can't blame the Templar for "creating evil bloodmages by being mean" any more than you can blame the mages for "creating evil Templar by turning to bloodmagic."

Templar who are evil are that way for the same reason mages who become bloodmages are, they find a reason to justify them but it's what they want, to be cruel and have power. Good people stay good, bad people will go bad at the first chance they get. Look and anything you want and you see it. In the games we see it and in the books, in other places too, like in Star Wars when talking about the Jedi and Sith or Harry Potter and the magic in that world.

[PsychoBlonde]

Auintus wrote...

Note the bolded sections and get back to me on that.

Management does not need to imply a ruling body or organized meetings of mages deciding the conditions for other mages.  It can simply mean constructing your setup in such a way that there are powerful incentives for playing nice, and equally powerful disincentives if you fail to do that.  Are there going to be missteps, failures, mistakes, bad outcomes?  Of course.  You can't "fix" human nature.  But you can avoid applying pressure so as to turn your molehill into a volcano.

It's an identical problem to designing an "ideal" government that protects people but is itself limited in such a way that it doesn't become a threat to those same people.  How can you grant power but also restrict that power?
Or, how do you enable your kids to get the experience they need to become adults while (hopefully) skirting as many of the enormous pitfalls along the way as you can?  The solution is not to take people's kids away from them and raise them in uniform cattle pens.  Nor is there some magic phrasing that will stave off tyranny.  Nor is there any system that will somehow prevent mages from falling into darkness.  It is not just a difficult problem, it is a fundamentally insoluable one.  Nothing will ever be perfect.  But many things can get better.

I suggest dwarves not because dwarves are perfect (they're not), but because their culture is somewhat more benevolent in a number of useful ways.  They revere achievement, for one, a useful attitude when you want mages to achieve self-mastery.  They have a secular orientation that, for most mages, would be superior to the "you're cursed by the Maker!" superstition of the Chantry.  And, they have racial resistance to magic, so integrating mages into their lives would not be the huge stumbling block that it might be elsewhere.  

[Fredward]

TCBC_Freak wrote...
The greatest number we've seen maybe, but not that we have heard about. Before the fall of old Tevinter it was run by blood mages, but there were no Templar. In modern Tevinter the Templar are like lapdogs to the mages, they have no power and are just for show, yet it is run by blood mages.

You can't blame the Templar for "creating evil bloodmages by being mean" any more than you can blame the mages for "creating evil Templar by turning to bloodmagic."

Templar who are evil are that way for the same reason mages who become bloodmages are, they find a reason to justify them but it's what they want, to be cruel and have power. Good people stay good, bad people will go bad at the first chance they get. Look and anything you want and you see it. In the games we see it and in the books, in other places too, like in Star Wars when talking about the Jedi and Sith or Harry Potter and the magic in that world.

Comparing ALL mages to Tevinter magisters is unfair. Tevinter's history, culture and society glorify magic. It's a system that fosters abuse of power to the extreme. Anyway seeing as how Tevinter is still standing after all its been through this definitely leans towards the idea that the magisters don't often turn into slathering abominations DESPITE their use of blood magic the only thing that the Magisters DON'T have is the templars breathing down their necks. So yeah you're right, it is up to the individual but the current system doesn't acknowledge that by (a) treating all mages equally and ( creating a self perpetuating system where templar abuse and imprisonment based on birth forces individual mages to turn to extremes and then the collective get blamed for their actions.

[PsychoBlonde]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Templar who are evil are that way for the same reason mages who become bloodmages are, they find a reason to justify them but it's what they want, to be cruel and have power. Good people stay good, bad people will go bad at the first chance they get. Look and anything you want and you see it. In the games we see it and in the books, in other places too, like in Star Wars when talking about the Jedi and Sith or Harry Potter and the magic in that world.

This reminds me of some quotes.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." --Steven Weinberg
[/b]
"It wasn't that the city was lawless.  It had plenty of laws.  It just didn't offer many opportunities not to break them.  Swing didn't seem to have grasped the idea that the system was supposed to take criminals and, in some rough-and-ready fashion, force them into becoming honest men.  Instead, he'd taken honest men and turned them into criminals." --Terry Pratchett

[brushyourteeth]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
With the system as it currently is, no wonder mages get angry or bored and turn to blood magic. It's what's expected of them. It's what the system raises them for -- all so that the cycle can be reinforced and repeated again and again. Let them have something else: great punishment for wrong, but great honor for doing right. Let them know that, like anyone, they'll be cut down for breaking the law -- but that, like anyone, they can achieve great honor within their sphere of influence and a place in history for using their gifts for the benefit of others. Most mages would be plenty content with that.

This exactly. DA2 makes the situation in Kirkwall sound exceptional with the Knight Commander constantly pressuring the mages and them turning to blood magic or turning apostate to fight this. But really this is taking place on a grand scale all over the Circles. The templars are addicted to lyrium, they get lyrium to combat mages, they NEED mages to be dangerous otherwise their existence is no longer justified. So as long as their are lyrium-swilling templars around a greater than average amount of mages are going to turn to blood magic or turn into abominations. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Think about it. The greatest number of mages we've seen become blood mages and abominations have done so to fight the Chantry/Circle/templars remove those restrictions and the rate of magic abuse also drops.

The greatest number we've seen maybe, but not that we have heard about. Before the fall of old Tevinter it was run by blood mages, but there were no Templar. In modern Tevinter the Templar are like lapdogs to the mages, they have no power and are just for show, yet it is run by blood mages.

You can't blame the Templar for "creating evil bloodmages by being mean" any more than you can blame the mages for "creating evil Templar by turning to bloodmagic."

Templar who are evil are that way for the same reason mages who become bloodmages are, they find a reason to justify them but it's what they want, to be cruel and have power. Good people stay good, bad people will go bad at the first chance they get. Look and anything you want and you see it. In the games we see it and in the books, in other places too, like in Star Wars when talking about the Jedi and Sith or Harry Potter and the magic in that world.

Templars AND mages are to blame because they reinforce the culture. What's needed is for good mages and (if possible) good templars to take control of the situation and see to it that good is reinforced through encouragement and abuse by either faction is discouraged through swift punishment. For mages, their positive behavior will for once be acknowledged the way it ought. For the templars... well, that's easy. Even the most vile and disgusting templar will behave if you threaten to take his source of lyrium away.

[Celene II]

Any manditory removal of children from their family can not be the solution to the mage situation.

How many times has this been a source of problem for the DA world at large when people hide their mage children and it leads to ruin.

No circle.

Just 100s if not 1000s of roaming mage/templar duos wandering from village to village trying just to keep mages safe.

Conner
The Hawk Children
Feynriel

Any circle, any manditory prison type location will breed Ander's type hate.

[brushyourteeth]

Switching gears, I'd just like to say that religion isn't to blame for mage abuse, here. In fact, reading over the Chant, there's nothing in it to suggest to me that mages are intended to be second-class citizens. The people of Thedas in general have become superstitious and distrustful of magic based on the (true) tales that have spread about the horrors mages are capable of. Granted, the Chantry has itself spread that trust, but not because it's a religion -- because it's part of the culture and directly involved in the situation.

I kind of die inside every time someone calls foul on the reliability of someone's character just because they have belief in a higher power. There's no universal rule to the worth of a human being based on whether they are or aren't religious.

[PsychoBlonde]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Comparing ALL mages to Tevinter magisters is unfair. Tevinter's history, culture and society glorify magic. It's a system that fosters abuse of power to the extreme.

Eh . . . kind of.  The Imperium is basically institutionalized (cold) warfare, mage on mage, so the only way to HAVE power IS to abuse it, i.e. the Morrigan method.  It is ironic, because in so doing they strip themselves of any access to the ultimate power: moral authority.  They have no moral authority.  That's kind of what I'm hoping we'll start to see in DAIII.  The establishment of actual moral authorities.  Or, it could all go horribly wrong.  We shall see.

[PsychoBlonde]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I kind of die inside every time someone calls foul on the reliability of someone's character just because they have belief in a higher power. There's no universal rule to the worth of a human being based on whether they are or aren't religious.

No, but there is a reliable barometer based on what *kind* of religion they have.  And I don't mean monotheistic or polytheistic or whatever.  If they have the kind where they embrace spirituality of some kind, it's nearly always completely benign, maybe a wobble here and there on a particular hot-button issue for them.  If they have the kind of religion that rejects the world, then you know it's time to surreptitiously reach for the baseball bat.  There's a very clear illustration of this in the difference between Elthina and Petrice.

[Drakar123]

There can't be any alternative.If mages are allowed to leave the circles and happen to learn blood magic in secret they could take over a country without too much effort.Since you read asunder you know what Cole was capable of.Skilled blood mages could do far more.They could effortlesly overthrow a goverment in any country and there is no way for mundanes to stop them.Mind control is practically invincible in Thedas and assumng you master it nobody could do a thing against you.Powerful blood mages can read and control a person's thoughts,manipulate their memories and control their senses and emotions.Another Tevinter is inevitable should mages be allowed to leave.Not that I think that is a bad thing.I would love for the Imperium to conquer Thedas again but the chantry and nobles would never let something like this happen.They however no longer have the power to stop it.If the mages win another tevinter is certain.If they lose the same thing happens unless templars kill every single mage everywhere the moment they show signs of magical talent.Assuing they imprison mages in harsher circles they will turn to blood magic and could mind control the templars and leave through the front door to go and mind control the nobles and take over every country.If the circles are more lax power hungry mages will turn to blood magic and usurp the goverment of whatever country they are in.I can not see this war ending with anything but another Tevinter.

[Auintus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Auintus wrote...


Note the bolded sections and get back to me on that.

I honestly do not like that idea. The Circle, even my Circle, may be kinda harsh, but unless I misunderstood, your throwing mages to the wolves, or darkspawn, whatever. That teaches mages to place their own survival above anything else.
In addition, if a "master" is a maleficar, and teaches their student the same, you have two problems for the price of one. Which is why I think education should be a universal thing.
Also, mage-broodmother. I don't like the sound of that.

Those are around, it is what the Darkspawn Emissars come from.

But what about genlock emissaries? Don't tell me the broodmother that births them was a dwarven mage.

[Auintus]

Raydiva wrote...
I always thought the use of phalacteries as being hypocritical on the part of the whole circle thing.  They are using blood to track mages...blood magic.  And the Hallowing?  Demon based magic.

I like part of what you are saying.  All children should be tested and if proven to have mage give taken in for training.  Parents are free to visit the children on holidays and special occasions.  A student can even be given a leave of absence in rare cases (ie death in the family).  Once training and reasonable testing is complete, they are free to return home or where-ever they choose. 

By testing I don't mean the Hallowing.  Why are mages forced to take the Hallowing?  To prove they can not be corrupted?  Almost every mage I've seen corrupted has already gone through the Hallowing.  More often, I've seen the non-hallowed Apostates (sp?) fight off demons better.  Maybe the Hallowing actually makes the mage more open to demon control by being exposed to dark forces in the fade without any real support.  Its a pointless sink or swim test, and if you sink your head gets cut off.

I do believe, mages should not inherit titles.  Too much power and all that.  But I have a feeling after the more humbling training in a circle, a noble born mage might feel relieved that he/she is not expected to be bound to the duties acquired by just being born in a noble family.  They can take on positions of advisors, healers, war-mages in the armies, etc.  They should be able to find work that suits them.

As much as I hate to say it, a way to track mages is needed, but perhaps a different method or a leash.  A magical artifact (ie bracelet, ring, tatoo, etc) that can not be removed and that when blood magic is used triggers.  Perhaps, knocking the mage out and/or summoning local templars and/or other mages to stop him/her.  This artifact could be used instead of the blood based phalacteries to track mages down and could give witness on behalf of the mage if he/she is charged with using blood magic.  If not triggered then no blood magic.  The artifact would need to be attuned to each specific mage, but a decent group of specially trained enchanters should be able to do it.

Yes, Gaider confirmed that phalacteries are a sort of blood magic, but I personally consider blood magic nothing but a tool. A way to track maleficar is needed and phalacteries serve that role quite well, though your artifact idea has some merit. It sounds like a anklet you put on a prisoner though. I think phalacteries are sufficient. The Harrowing is not demon-based magic, though I will not argue that it utilizes demons.

True, we ought to find a test in which failure does not automatically mean death.

Absolutely.

This actually sounds like a very good idea. Better than phalacteries in that it would detect blood magic. However, if the mage found a way to remove it, they could be long gone before anyone arrived to investigate it's removal. Also, it makes it seem like a hampering to the mage, rather than a tool of the policing force.

[Auintus]

Vit246 wrote...

- Shut down Kirkwall as a Circle location. The Veil there is hopeless.

- All templars (if possible) and Circle mages will be taught how to actually detect demonic possession using that spell from Merill and Anders.

- Rivaini mages will be consulted on how to discover and communicate with benign spirits. Also, the possibility of having emotionally stable Circle mages being willingly possessed by benign spirits and thus immunized against demonic possession and abominations.

- A Templar Internal Affairs that is actually competent. The Chantry Seekers are crap. Serious reprimands, punishments, and executions against Templars who torture, rape and murder mages and advocate anything like a "Tranquil Solution". 

You, I like.

-Gaider actually said that there is some sort of connection between magic use and the Veil. The Veil in the area around a Circle would weaken in time and if the Veil is very strong, it is more difficult to use magic.Or something like that.

That would be useful, though some mages may want absolutely nothing to do with demons.

Erm, I'll have to disagree here. Justice was a benign spirit at first. I think we should treat spirits with only marginally less caution than demons.

Absolutely.

[Auintus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

I may be misremembering, but your "alternative Circle" sounds like what the Circle was originally supposed to be when it was established yes? It has become what it is today after centuries of vitriol from the two main factions involved (the Circle and the Templar) after the Tevinter Circle basically fell apart and magistrates rose to power again. Then the other Circles at the behest of the Templar made it a life time commitment in the "schools for magic" as it were.

Am I remembering this right? Or did I just imagine it happened like that?

I don't know, where did you hear that?

[Lotion Soronarr]

A new circle system?

How about a giant pit. You freeze mages in silly poses and throw them off, playing tetris with their bodies. Fun for the whole family.

[Auintus]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Management does not need to imply a ruling body or organized meetings of mages deciding the conditions for other mages.  It can simply mean constructing your setup in such a way that there are powerful incentives for playing nice, and equally powerful disincentives if you fail to do that.  Are there going to be missteps, failures, mistakes, bad outcomes?  Of course.  You can't "fix" human nature.  But you can avoid applying pressure so as to turn your molehill into a volcano.

It's an identical problem to designing an "ideal" government that protects people but is itself limited in such a way that it doesn't become a threat to those same people.  How can you grant power but also restrict that power?
Or, how do you enable your kids to get the experience they need to become adults while (hopefully) skirting as many of the enormous pitfalls along the way as you can?  The solution is not to take people's kids away from them and raise them in uniform cattle pens.  Nor is there some magic phrasing that will stave off tyranny.  Nor is there any system that will somehow prevent mages from falling into darkness.  It is not just a difficult problem, it is a fundamentally insoluable one.  Nothing will ever be perfect.  But many things can get better.

I suggest dwarves not because dwarves are perfect (they're not), but because their culture is somewhat more benevolent in a number of useful ways.  They revere achievement, for one, a useful attitude when you want mages to achieve self-mastery.  They have a secular orientation that, for most mages, would be superior to the "you're cursed by the Maker!" superstition of the Chantry.  And, they have racial resistance to magic, so integrating mages into their lives would not be the huge stumbling block that it might be elsewhere.  

I really don't like the fact that there is no uniform cirriculum or the "sending mages into the Deep Roads" bit. But everything else you said makes sense. I think that one school would fare better than a system of tutors, but I suppose that we'll just agree to disagree there.

[Auintus]

Drakar123 wrote...

There can't be any alternative.If mages are allowed to leave the circles and happen to learn blood magic in secret they could take over a country without too much effort.Since you read asunder you know what Cole was capable of.Skilled blood mages could do far more.They could effortlesly overthrow a goverment in any country and there is no way for mundanes to stop them.Mind control is practically invincible in Thedas and assumng you master it nobody could do a thing against you.Powerful blood mages can read and control a person's thoughts,manipulate their memories and control their senses and emotions.Another Tevinter is inevitable should mages be allowed to leave.Not that I think that is a bad thing.I would love for the Imperium to conquer Thedas again but the chantry and nobles would never let something like this happen.They however no longer have the power to stop it.If the mages win another tevinter is certain.If they lose the same thing happens unless templars kill every single mage everywhere the moment they show signs of magical talent.Assuing they imprison mages in harsher circles they will turn to blood magic and could mind control the templars and leave through the front door to go and mind control the nobles and take over every country.If the circles are more lax power hungry mages will turn to blood magic and usurp the goverment of whatever country they are in.I can not see this war ending with anything but another Tevinter.

Have a little faith. Mind control is by no means unbreakable and mages have just as much reason to be loyal to their country as any other citizen, considering they are no longer imprisoned due to birth. Mages would have less reason to turn to blood magic considering they are as free as any other man. Most mages are reasonable individuals, Malcolm, Jowan, Irving, Orsino for a great while. None of them want to rule, they just want to be free. Power-hungry mages will be checked by the more moderate.
Also, Cole is a demon, not a blood mage.

[Iosev]

In my opinion, the very act of separating mages and normal people is only furthering the gap between each group, so no matter how benevolent a Circle system is, it is still a form of segregation that I think ensures that there will be no toleration between mages and non-mages. How are you going to encourage mages to use their powers to benefit society, when they spend the bulk of their lives apart from it?

Obviously mages need proper education to use their powers, but I also think that they need to interact with normal people, so that both parties can learn to better tolerate each other (and it needs to happen early in a child's life).

Modifié par arcelonious, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[Dave of Canada]

Kill  Tranquil 'em all after Tevinter crumbles, the other two Old Gods are slain and the Qunari are repelled for good.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[brushyourteeth]

arcelonious wrote...

In my opinion, the very act of separating mages and normal people is only furthering the gap between each group, so no matter how benevolent a Circle system is, it is still a form of segregation that I think ensures that there will be no toleration between mages and non-mages. How are you going to encourage mages to use their powers to benefit society, when they spend the bulk of their lives apart from it?

Obviously mages need proper education to use their powers, but I also think that they need to interact with normal people, so that both parties can learn to better tolerate each other (and it needs to happen early in a child's life).

Well put! How to best implement that is a tricky question, but I completely agree with what you're saying. 

[Iosev]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Well put! How to best implement that is a tricky question, but I completely agree with what you're saying. 

Thanks, and yes, it's definitely a dilemma that I don't really have a good answer for.

[brushyourteeth]

arcelonious wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Well put! How to best implement that is a tricky question, but I completely agree with what you're saying. 

Thanks, and yes, it's definitely a dilemma that I don't really have a good answer for.

I think a good start (and granted, it's only a start) would be the Chantry seeing to it that every decently populated town has a responsible and approved skilled healer available for general aid living and serving within that city's Chantry among the priests and (yes) templars.

When little Billy's injuries are severe enough, and if the Chantry's endorsement is strong enough, Farmer Bob will eventually subject his family to the help of magic. And trust can be formed in that community over time.

[Auintus]

brushyourteeth wrote...

arcelonious wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Well put! How to best implement that is a tricky question, but I completely agree with what you're saying. 

Thanks, and yes, it's definitely a dilemma that I don't really have a good answer for.

I think a good start (and granted, it's only a start) would be the Chantry seeing to it that every decently populated town has a responsible and approved skilled healer available for general aid living and serving within that city's Chantry among the priests and (yes) templars.

When little Billy's injuries are severe enough, and if the Chantry's endorsement is strong enough, Farmer Bob will eventually subject his family to the help of magic. And trust can be formed in that community over time.

Auintus approves +10, though I think mages could be more than just healers. Jowan, sorry, Leyvn, served as bodyguard for a group of mundanes in a bugged quest.
You are quite right, though. Seperating them is only asking for trouble. However, if you remember, there is an apprentice in the Circle who nearly torches himself because he has yet to control his powers completely. Perhaps when apprentices reach a certain point in their training, they can have..."field trips" of sorts to build their compassion towards non-mages.

[Rixatrix]

I have thought about this as well, and I think the situation requires a far more sophisticated solution than I can come up with.

That said, I have considered something like:

- All mages have the same rights as everyone else. However, since they have a gift requiring training unlike everyone else, they must either be taught by a tutor for a fee (and I imagine groups can get a special rate so it works like local schools) or be sent to the Circle of Magi for free.

- No phylacteries and no templar control. However, templars still exist, and if mages allegedly commit a crime like murder, they are sent to capture the mage alive so that s/he can stand trial.  Mages brought back and convicted of crimes are imprisoned or executed as local law provides, like anyone else, but have special prisons guarded by templars that prevent magical means of escape.

- The Circle of Magi gets control of itself. Its profits, however, must go to continue research, mage education, mage prison funding, and templar training, among other things.

- Mages can live among everyone else, procreate, marry, hold titles, etc.

- No magic is forbidden; however, if it hurts someone, mages are bound by law like everyone else and will be punished as the local law provides.

- Being made tranquil is no longer allowed as a punishment.  This is like a lobotomy, and it is both cruel and unusual.


Something that has always bothered me about the in-game world is that "being a mage" means you have fewer rights than others.  "Being" anything you have no control over should not mean it is okay to take your rights away.  That leads to discrimination.  Your actions, however, are fair game.

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:43 .

[Dave of Canada]

[quote]BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

- All mages have the same rights as everyone else.[/quote]

To live on the street in povertry, starve and suffer plague? To be abused, raped and murdered by nobility and guardsman which are not accountable to anyone but themselves? To live in a family and suffer all the emotional instability which that may cause? To have children with a husband or wife and see them grow old, perhaps grow sick and... die? To yearn for more influence in the world, to seek to rise above their station?

I think everyone else wished the yhad the same rights as mages, tbh.

[quote]No phylacteries and no templar control.[/quote]

So no supervision, nor any accountability for their actions or way to track them down?

[quote]However, templars still exist, and if mages allegedly commit a crime like murder, they are sent to capture the mage alive so that s/he can stand trial.[/quote]

How would you know it's murder if a mage commited it? They could've mind-controlled someone else to do it, perhaps even have the person kill themselves. Hell, maybe they summoned a mage and did it! Perhaps burned down the entire house and made it look like an accident!

Hell, what would Templar do when they finally surround the mage? They don't have an entire army unlike the Circle, who's to say they won't get overrun by blood magic or demons?

[quote]but have special prisons guarded by templars that prevent magical means of escape.[/quote]

There isn't any "magical prison". The one that exists is a death sentence for anyone imprisoned within.

[quote]The Circle of Magi gets control of itself.[/quote]

Like it already does.

[quote]Its profits, however, must go to continue research, mage education, mage prison funding, and templar training, among other things.[/quote]

So, like it already does. However--how will they garner profits? Most of the Circle's profits are from the Tranquil and I assume you're thinking of abolishing the Rite of Tranquility.

[quote]Mages can live among everyone else, procreate, marry, hold titles, etc.[/quote]

Yes, this won't cause any problems at all.

[quote]No magic is forbidden; however, if it hurts someone, mages are bound by law like everyone else and will be punished as the local law provides.[/quote]

Have fun stopping the empowered blood mage / abomination with... local authorities?

[quote]Being made tranquil is no longer allowed as a punishment.  This is like a lobotomy, and it is both cruel and unusual.[/quote]

Ah! Here it is! Let's make the Circle not have any income! Brilliant! Let's forget that the alternative is execution / death and that many submit to Tranquility of their own free will--allowed to leave the Circle to do as they please in the outside world once done.


[quote]Something that has always bothered me about the in-game world is that "being a mage" means you have fewer rights than others.[/quote]

Because commoners, elves and dwarves have soooo many rights!

[quote]"Being" anything you have no control over should not mean it is okay to take your rights away.[/quote]

Being a threat is, a man who's dangerous won't be allowed to live in public--intent or no.

[quote]That leads to discrimination.  Your actions, however, are fair game.
[/quote]

And here we have modern code of ethics coming into play, thank heavens those exist in Thedas wait no they don't.