271 réponses à ce sujet

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Auintus wrote...
So, my question is: How should mages be treated in the new system? Harsher? Kinder? Stricter?

It doesn't matter how you treat the mages. You can treat them kindly and grant them autonomy like in Ferelden, Or you can allow them to rule like in the Tervinter Imperium, and still it doesn't stop a moron and a terrorist like Anders to screw things up in the name of freedom.

Mages, templars and all regious fanatics are the plague that shouldn't be given another chance to cause further global disaster. They must be hunted down and terminated, every single one of them. - while my evil character watch the bloodbath in awe. No Mercy. Go for the kill.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:44 .

[MisterJB]

Auintus wrote...
Of course it's inevitable. The odds of every single mage being good are about as good as the odds of every single person being good. Should we put everyone in the Circle?

Not everyone can raise armies of the undead with his mind. make people explode with a tap on the head, kill people in their sleep.

If you actually allowed mages to help track and capture/kill maleficar, it isn't really. There's a whole tree dedicated to anti-magic spells.

I place as much faith in mages policing mages as the elves of Denerim place in humans policing humans.

Punishment is little consolation to any victim. The fact the the criminal is a mage changes nothing. Repeat: All into the Circle?

Crimes commited by mages are hard to discover(blood magic can control minds, a mage could force a random passerby to do his bidding and no one would be the wiser), crimes commited by mages are harder to punish(this is self explanatory), crimes commited by mages have the potential for greater destruction (in Redcliff, there were experienced knights armed and armored in the finest steel Ferelden has to offer and they are helpless against a single mage child unless the Warden decides to help).
Those are considerable differences. Mages into the Circle.

You and Soronnar get along well, I take it? Most people are above such base impulses, at least to a considerable degree. That's how society functions. Otherwise, it'd be anarchy.

Corruption is the one thing we don't lack in human society. We follow the rules the bare minimun necessary because we are afraid of being punished, not because it's the right thing to do.
Mages have an almost limitless number of ways in which to commit crimes and avoid punishment thus, what stops them?

And just like any other weapon, they can be taught to control it.

Which is not enough by a long shot. Mages can still lose control of their emotions and cause destruction. Mages can still be possessed. Mages can still use their power for their benefit uncaring of who they hurt.

If you treat someone as a monster, a threat by their mere existence, it is only a matter of time before they become exactly that.

Power corrupts and mages have a lot of it. You can say that treating mages with suspicion will lead to them becoming exactly what we fear and you are, partially, right.
However, both Thedas and our real world, have proven time and time again that people do not need to be opressed in order to become "monsters"
And therein lies the crux of the matter. Both viewpoints are valid.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 décembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[MisterJB]

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...
We keep dancing around this same issue.  You believe all should be punished for the future danger of the few, and I believe the few should be punished for their crimes when they commit them.  No amount of back and forth is going to convince either of us of the other's view.  

Agree to disagree?  /Handshake

I don't believe mages should be punished without commiting a crime. I believe their freedoms must be restricted to account for their greater power.
But sure. /Handshake.

How would you improve the Circle?

Auintus wrote...
But perhaps you can do better. The entire point of this thread is to see new ideas. Let us hear yours.

 
First, I would attempt to turn the Circle into a more welcoming and humane instution for both mages and mundanes. Mages would be allowed to receive visits both parental and conjugal so as to desmitify much of the mistery and fear that surrounds the Circle. Recreational visits to cities would be allowed so long as the mages are accompanied by experienced templars. Marriages and procreation with other mages and mundanes (met during the aforementioned visits, I imagine) would be allowed so long as the mage understand the hardships of mantaining relationships from inside the circle and that mundane childs would have to be given to someone from outside of the Circle to look after. Mages sending letters to the exterior would be permitted but those letters would be opened and read to ensure no plan of escape is being fomented.
The weakest of mages could choose to not go through the Harrowing but they would also not have acess to the same privileges of other mages.
Under no circunstances would I allow a mage to live outside of the Circle.
Shale's owner, for instance, was allowed and his grandchild was in risk of being possessed by a demon.

There would be a zero tolerance to abuses of power from both templars and mages. A templar that, say, raped a mage would be expelled from the Order and arrested, forced to endure the rest of his life without lyrium. A mage practicing forbidden magic outside of experiments permitted by the Chantry would be made Tranquil. No exceptions. Needless to say, the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter would still share power.

So, yes, it's a cage. But a gilded one. Truth be told, most of these rights already exist in the current Circles such as the right to visit towns or send letters. The degree to which they are respected depend on the KC and FE in charge.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 décembre 2012 - 02:25 .

[Auintus]

Sir JK wrote...

However, this puts mundanes at the mercy of patron mages. Which I suspect is something the southern theodosian cultures have a strong aversion to. In essence, you cannot protect yourself but need a mage to protect you. It have a poor fit with the freedom and warrior ideals circulating in the south.

While normally they trust a templar to protect them, in theory any mundane can become a templar. But none can become a mage. So if they suffer a maleficar attack, then they have to beg the big powerful mages to come and save them. They cannot take matters into their own hands, they cannot really do anything if it is their own patron that's the maleficar. It'll turn into a big pot of miscontent that sooner or later will explode.

Any working solution have to involve a means in which mundanes can contribute with our without mage assistance to right percieved wrongs.

We need the police to protect us. It's no different from that, except that mages are better able to combat maleficar and abominations than mundanes.
Mages wouldn't be patrons, they would be members of a defense force of both templars and mages. If any individual went bad, the rest would bring them down.
I figure we need magic to combat what is essentially a magical problem. Mundanes can rule themselves, protect themselves, whilst mages protect them from magical problems. Let magic deal with magic and mundane deal with mundane.

[Auintus]

MisterJB wrote...

Not everyone can raise armies of the undead with his mind. make people explode with a tap on the head, kill people in their sleep.

I could kill people in their sleep. All it takes is a sharp knife and quiet feet. Making someone explode is probably going a bit far, and it would take time and a helluva lot of power to raise an entire army of undead.

I place as much faith in mages policing mages as the elves of Denerim place in humans policing humans.

Ah. Well, that's your own agenda, isn't it?

Crimes commited by mages are hard to discover(blood magic can control minds, a mage could force a random passerby to do his bidding and no one would be the wiser), crimes commited by mages are harder to punish(this is self explanatory), crimes commited by mages have the potential for greater destruction (in Redcliff, there were experienced knights armed and armored in the finest steel Ferelden has to offer and they are helpless against a single mage child unless the Warden decides to help).
Those are considerable differences. Mages into the Circle.

Most mages do not practice blood magic and mind control shows. Crimes by mages are not more difficult to punish. Templars or mages can neutralize their magic, then they can be tranquilized or killed or whatever have you. Recall that Connor was an abomination, which only came to be because of his own lack of training. Had Isolde sent him to the Circle, that would never have happened.

Corruption is the one thing we don't lack in human society. We follow the rules the bare minimun necessary because we are afraid of being punished, not because it's the right thing to do.
Mages have an almost limitless number of ways in which to commit crimes and avoid punishment thus, what stops them?

(bolded) Speak for yourself.
Mages would be more capable of hunting criminal mages than templars are. Most of your ways to avoid punishment involve blood magic, which few mages practice.

Power corrupts and mages have a lot of it. You can say that treating mages with suspicion will lead to them becoming exactly what we fear and you are, partially, right.
However, both Thedas and our real world, have proven time and time again that people do not need to be opressed in order to become "monsters"
And therein lies the crux of the matter. Both viewpoints are valid.

Monsters are fewer and further between if not given a reason. Most mages that have become abominations were evil, untrained, or giving in. Evil mages would be hunted. Few would fear the Circle, since a life sentence is no longer a part of it, thus less untrained mages. Mages wouldn't be treated like monsters, thus nothing to give in to.
Perfect? Certainly not. But it's the best I can do, and better than the current system.

[Auintus]

MisterJB wrote...
 
First, I would attempt to turn the Circle into a more welcoming and humane instution for both mages and mundanes. Mages would be allowed to receive visits both parental and conjugal so as to desmitify much of the mistery and fear that surrounds the Circle. Recreational visits to cities would be allowed so long as the mages are accompanied by experienced templars. Marriages and procreation with other mages and mundanes (met during the aforementioned visits, I imagine) would be allowed so long as the mage understand the hardships of mantaining relationships from inside the circle and that mundane childs would have to be given to someone from outside of the Circle to look after. Mages sending letters to the exterior would be permitted but those letters would be opened and read to ensure no plan of escape is being fomented.
The weakest of mages could choose to not go through the Harrowing but they would also not have acess to the same privileges of other mages.
Under no circunstances would I allow a mage to live outside of the Circle.
Shale's owner, for instance, was allowed and his grandchild was in risk of being possessed by a demon.

There would be a zero tolerance to abuses of power from both templars and mages. A templar that, say, raped a mage would be expelled from the Order and arrested, forced to endure the rest of his life without lyrium. A mage practicing forbidden magic outside of experiments permitted by the Chantry would be made Tranquil. No exceptions. Needless to say, the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter would still share power.

So, yes, it's a cage. But a gilded one. Truth be told, most of these rights already exist in the current Circles such as the right to visit towns or send letters. The degree to which they are respected depend on the KC and FE in charge.

I think reading through their letters is probably an invasion of privacy. Maybe only under reasonable suspicion?

Wilhelm went to great lengths to keep that demon trapped. He was very responsible about it. A host of bad luck caused the situation that would later result in the near possession.

Beyond that...I personally would prefer greater freedom, but your system is one that I would accept.

Visits to towns were cut off after Anders' stunt in Kirkwall. What town would Fereldan mages visit, anyway? Their Circle is in the middle of nowhere. And rarely could a mundane visit the Circle, as I recall.

Modifié par Auintus, 02 décembre 2012 - 03:31 .

[grimkillah]

I prefer a homestead option instead, like someone once said, "Mages have to learn how to handle their talents somewhere", but both chantry system or independent system alienates mages from the wider community, and give too much shelter to mages so that when faced with real situation, they fail to handle it correctly. Instead I feel mages should continue to live with their family and within their community, and have Templars to live with them as a lifelong tutor. This way mages can actually operate within the larger community and let them face with real situations that they will encounter as they grow and mature. Lets face it, real life offer greater temptation than any other situation for mages, if you loves a girl and she does not return the feelings one might use magic, or if your father killed by a bandit, and you seek greater power for vengeance. Such situation isn't often faced inside a closed off circle, and mages will be unprepared when faced, so if a mage can survive real life with the guidance of a Templar, then everyone is better off for it.

Modifié par grimkillah, 02 décembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Auintus]

grimkillah wrote...

I prefer a homestead option instead, like someone once said, "Mages have to learn how to handle their talents somewhere", but both chantry system or independent system alienates mages from the wider community, and give too much shelter to mages so that when faced with real situation, they fail to handle it correctly. Instead I feel mages should continue to live with their family and within their community, and have Templars to live with them as a lifelong tutor. This way mages can actually operate within the larger community and let them face with real situations that they will encounter as they grow and mature. Lets face it, real life offer greater temptation than any other situation for mages, if you loves a girl and she does not return the feelings one might use magic, or if your father killed by a bandit, and you seek greater power for vengeance. Such situation isn't often faced inside a closed off circle, and mages will be unprepared when faced, so if a mage can survive real life with the guidance of a Templar, then everyone is better off for it.

Mages train mages. Templars just watch over them. Also, leaving mages out in the open to be trained is probably too risky, since untrained mages are at greater risk of becoming abominations. In addition, your system would require a templar for every mage. That would mean that the templars would be extremely overtaxed and unable to track mages that do go maleficar. Having a mage tutor for every apprentice would overtax them. And then there is Uldred, who went nuts after Wynne annoying him about his duty to the apprentices. Not everyone's cut out to be a teacher.

Modifié par Auintus, 02 décembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[grimkillah]

Auintus wrote...

Mages train mages. Templars just watch over them. Also, leaving mages out in the open to be trained is probably too risky, since untrained mages are at greater risk of becoming abominations. In addition, your system would require a templar for every mage. That would mean that the templars would be extremely overtaxed and unable to track mages that do go maleficar.

They still go to mage school to train if that is what you meant, but after school they are just like any other person. I believe it is not their power that makes them abominations, but rather their desire of power makes them attract the creature of Fade. Better mage training and real life training is the only long term way to ensure each mage can resist the temptation when opportunity raises. As for the Templars, I doubt they are overtaxed like the Grey Wardens, surely there are thousands of them if not millions, and from DA2 it appears there are just as many Templars as there are mages.

[In Exile]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
It doesn't matter how you treat the mages. You can treat them kindly and grant them autonomy like in Ferelden, Or you can allow them to rule like in the Tervinter Imperium, and still it doesn't stop a moron and a terrorist like Anders to screw things up in the name of freedom.

What? Anders' terrorism only works because conditions are terrible for mages and the first thing the templars did was try to kill every single mage they could find in retaliation (putting aside Meredith being coo-coo for cocopuffs).

grimkillah wrote...
They still go to mage school to train if
that is what you meant, but after school they are just like any other
person.

Who could control your mind, if they wanted to. Or set you on fire. Or raise the corpses of your parents and have them dance a jig.

It's impossible to separate out what mages can do from how non-mages will feel about them. Mages - in virtue of being mages - have abilities that non-mages don't. Any system of co-existence has to come up with a way in which (i) mages don't just end up running society in the long run becuase they're better at everything than the mundates; and (ii) mages don't get to use their magic as they please without oversight.

There has to be a system of regulation in place - though my suggested solution would be something like coming up with anti-magic fields in every settlement in Thedas.

[Lotion Soronarr]

grimkillah wrote...

They still go to mage school to train if that is what you meant, but after school they are just like any other person. I believe it is not their power that makes them abominations, but rather their desire of power makes them attract the creature of Fade. Better mage training and real life training is the only long term way to ensure each mage can resist the temptation when opportunity raises. As for the Templars, I doubt they are overtaxed like the Grey Wardens, surely there are thousands of them if not millions, and from DA2 it appears there are just as many Templars as there are mages.

Believe what you want, but that isnt' true.
Demons are attracted to mages because they are mages. Personality has nothing to do with it.

And training? You cannot train yourself to resist all temptation.

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
It doesn't matter how you treat the mages. You can treat them kindly and grant them autonomy like in Ferelden, Or you can allow them to rule like in the Tervinter Imperium, and still it doesn't stop a moron and a terrorist like Anders to screw things up in the name of freedom.

What? Anders' terrorism only works because conditions are terrible for mages and the first thing the templars did was try to kill every single mage they could find in retaliation (putting aside Meredith being coo-coo for cocopuffs).

Indeed.

If you want to see an example of what happens when a terrorist decides to try and "screw things up in the name of freedom" when nobody else agrees with them look at Timothy McVeigh.

People were horrified in response to the Oklahoma City bombing.  It triggered no revolution.  It inspired nothing but sadness.

[MisterJB]

Auintus wrote...
I could kill people in their sleep. All it takes is a sharp knife and quiet feet.

That's not comparable at all. A Dreamer in Tevinter can control the minds of bandits in Kirkwall.

Making someone explode is probably going a bit far,

Walking Bom. Watch Morrigan use it in the "Sacred Ashes" trailer just by touching an Hurlock on the head.

and it would take time and a helluva lot of power to raise an entire army of undead.

Connor did it and he is a small chil.

Ah. Well, that's your own agenda, isn't it?

It's not an agenda, it's the truth. Both in Thedas and in our real world, powerless minorities have had crimes against them ignored by polices that belonged to the majority. There is good reason to fear that mages would ignore the crimes of other mages much like humans ignore crimes commited by other humans against elves.

Most mages do not practice blood magic and mind control shows.

Most mages do not practice blood magic because the Chantry severely punishes those who do. Relax control, make it easier to hide and watch it run rampant.
And, obviously, mind control is not easily noticeable or the templars wouldn't be so worried about a blood mage controlling someone in power.

Crimes by mages are not more difficult to punish. Templars or mages can neutralize their magic, then they can be tranquilized or killed or whatever have you.

Of course they are. Magic allows for things no criminal mundane could accomplish, both in hiding a crime and avoiding capture. They even have the last resort of becoming an Abomination.

Recall that Connor was an abomination, which only came to be because of his own lack of training. Had Isolde sent him to the Circle, that would never have happened.

If a mundane is at risk of losing a family member, he cries, he goes to doctors, he might steal to afford medicine but that's the extent of it.
If a mage is at risk, he can play Make-a-Wish foundation with a demon like Connor did or he can create  Frankestein Monster like Quentin did.
The point is that there are a numberless situations in life that mages can use to justify the use of their powers.

(bolded) Speak for yourself.

I speak for the great majority of the human race.

Mages would be more capable of hunting criminal mages than templars are. Most of your ways to avoid punishment involve blood magic, which few mages practice.

See above.
Mages can't be trusted to hunt other mages, mundanes need to rely on themselves. And most mages don't use blood magic because, inside the Circle, there is a good chance it will be found.

Monsters are fewer and further between if not given a reason. Most mages that have become abominations were evil, untrained, or giving in. Evil mages would be hunted. Few would fear the Circle, since a life sentence is no longer a part of it, thus less untrained mages. Mages wouldn't be treated like monsters, thus nothing to give in to.
Perfect? Certainly not. But it's the best I can do, and better than the current system.

Nothing to give in to? Other than the entire world?
People don't need a strong reason to abuse their powers. They need a strong reason not to. For mages, that is the constant scrutiny inside the Circle.
Remove them from there and what you accomplish is exposing mages to more temptations, giving them a great leeway to abuse their powers and reduce the quickness of Templar response when they do.

[Huntress]

MisterJB wrote...

However, both Thedas and our real world, have proven time and time again that people do not need to be opressed in order to become "monsters"
And therein lies the crux of the matter. Both viewpoints are valid.

You don't need to be oppressed to be a bad person, I don't know who told you that. Murderers and serial killers can be very educated people.

any way its all perspective and how it makes you feel about something, you're culture/back grounds plays a great deal on this decisions aswell.

In Dao per exemple a noble will see having  mages as "guardians" or "protectors" as a very good thing, while the rivals of this family will see that as a threat and will try to get the people living in close proximity to say mages on their side and if possible get the noble killed.. see? is all about perspectives.

[MisterJB]

Huntress wrote...
You don't need to be oppressed to be a bad person, I don't know who told you that. Murderers and serial killers can be very educated people.

Pro-mages are constantly saying that the mages who turn to blood magic do so because they are opressed. But the truth is that people don't need to be opressed in order to be "bad".

[grimkillah]

In Exile wrote...
Who could control your mind, if they wanted to. Or set you on fire. Or raise the corpses of your parents and have them dance a jig.

It's impossible to separate out what mages can do from how non-mages will feel about them. Mages - in virtue of being mages - have abilities that non-mages don't. Any system of co-existence has to come up with a way in which (i) mages don't just end up running society in the long run becuase they're better at everything than the mundates; and (ii) mages don't get to use their magic as they please without oversight.

There has to be a system of regulation in place - though my suggested solution would be something like coming up with anti-magic fields in every settlement in Thedas.

Why would he/she want to control your mind? or set you on fire, or play with the dead, a well adjusted person would not want to do that, and making mage apart of the community is for just that, give no reason to do things you suggested. And remember Templars are still around, it is not Mages on their own, it is a close partnership with Templars during everyday situation.

[In Exile]

grimkillah wrote...
Why would he/she want to control your mind?

Becaus he loves you so much, and if you could just see that...

Or because her mother is sick, and if you just understood ...

Or because you are the most qualifed to be a scholar at the academic, and if you just got the chance ...

and making mage apart of the community is for just that, give no reason to do things you suggested.

What if the mage wants to lead the community?

And remember Templars are still around, it is not Mages on their own, it is a close partnership with Templars during everyday situation.

So how do they find the mages? Do we have the blood magic registry still going? Do the templars patrol towns, and get to ask for a mage's papers? Why would mages want to hunt other mages? 

[The Elder King]

In Exile wrote...


So how do they find the mages? Do we have the blood magic registry still going? Do the templars patrol towns, and get to ask for a mage's papers? Why would mages want to hunt other mages? 

To prevent the return of a Circle system? I mean, regardless if someone thinks that the Circle system is right or wrong, or if mages should be free to go where they wish, I think that mages know that in the case they'll gain their freedom, they should watch over their fellow's crimes, or that certain countermeasures should be taken to prevent crimes.

Modifié par hhh89, 02 décembre 2012 - 05:36 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

grimkillah wrote...

In Exile wrote...
Who could control your mind, if they wanted to. Or set you on fire. Or raise the corpses of your parents and have them dance a jig.

It's impossible to separate out what mages can do from how non-mages will feel about them. Mages - in virtue of being mages - have abilities that non-mages don't. Any system of co-existence has to come up with a way in which (i) mages don't just end up running society in the long run becuase they're better at everything than the mundates; and (ii) mages don't get to use their magic as they please without oversight.

There has to be a system of regulation in place - though my suggested solution would be something like coming up with anti-magic fields in every settlement in Thedas.

Why would he/she want to control your mind? or set you on fire, or play with the dead, a well adjusted person would not want to do that, and making mage apart of the community is for just that, give no reason to do things you suggested. And remember Templars are still around, it is not Mages on their own, it is a close partnership with Templars during everyday situation.

Oh please.
Why not? Have you any idea what you could accomplish with mind control?

A well-adjusted person WOULD want to use (and abuse) that power.

[grimkillah]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Believe what you want, but that isnt' true.
Demons are attracted to mages because they are mages. Personality has nothing to do with it.

And training? You cannot train yourself to resist all temptation.

Connor become possessed by a desire demon because he want to find a way to save his father.
Uldred trying to gain Loghain's support of a free circle, attacked fellow mages with demons, got possessed instead.
Evelina become an abomination after Templars trying to take her away from the children she was helping.
Huon was dragged away from his wife and community in chains by the Templars, when he returned, he uses blood magic, trying to recreate Elven empire.
Quentin become insane after the death of his wife, turned to blood magic, so he can bring her back.
Orsino have gained knowledge of blood mage for years, but only become a harvester when he think the situation at the Gallows was hopeless.
Corypheus become the first darkspawn after entering the golden city thinking they are as powerful as the Maker.
Grace moved from Starkhaven to Kirkwall, and resisted iron rule of Meredith, and become an abomination during the fight.

Care to give some example where mage become abomination just because???

Also while it is true that you can't resist 100% of all the temptation, you are however innocent until you screw up. Otherwise every mage will be a tranquil and every normal person will be in jail, for possible future crime in which he may or may not do.

Modifié par grimkillah, 02 décembre 2012 - 05:53 .

[Sir JK]

hhh89 wrote...

To prevent the return of a Circle system? I mean, regardless if someone thinks that the Circle system is right or wrong, or if mages should be free to go where they wish, I think that mages know that in the case they'll gain their freedom, they should watch over their fellow's crimes, or that certain countermeasures should be taken to prevent crimes.

The first generation of mages will probably do this rather enthusiastically to avoid that, yes. The second will no doubt engage in it as well. The third will only hear from their grandparents what it was like and the fourth can't even ask them. By the fifth the circles are "ancient" history and the mages will have nothing to compare to. To them it will seem to be nothing but arbitrary requirements that forces them to do stuff they're not too keen on doing.

That's a mere 120 years later... at most.

[In Exile]

hhh89 wrote...
To prevent the return of a Circle system?

Why not do that by fighting the mundates? 

I mean, regardless if someone thinks that the Circle system is right or wrong, or if mages should be free to go where they wish, I think that mages know that in the case they'll gain their freedom, they should watch over their fellow's crimes, or that certain countermeasures should be taken to prevent crimes.

Yes, but they might not be keen to do it as anything other than an entirely mage driven tribunal proccess, with templars answerable to them as enforces.

My point is just that this is all about assuming different things about human nature: (i) that the mundates are good people and won't try to burn lone mages at the stake; (ii) that mages won't believe they have a natural position as leaders of the mundates; (iii) that the system won't naturally trend, like it does with the Dalish, to put mages in positions of power and command; (iv) that people can resist temptations from actual demons, when they're going through periods of being immature; and so on.

[The Elder King]

Sir JK wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

To prevent the return of a Circle system? I mean, regardless if someone thinks that the Circle system is right or wrong, or if mages should be free to go where they wish, I think that mages know that in the case they'll gain their freedom, they should watch over their fellow's crimes, or that certain countermeasures should be taken to prevent crimes.

The first generation of mages will probably do this rather enthusiastically to avoid that, yes. The second will no doubt engage in it as well. The third will only hear from their grandparents what it was like and the fourth can't even ask them. By the fifth the circles are "ancient" history and the mages will have nothing to compare to. To them it will seem to be nothing but arbitrary requirements that forces them to do stuff they're not too keen on doing.

That's a mere 120 years later... at most.

I think the problem about magic will always return after some time, regardless who'll win between mages and templars, and what solution will be found at the end of the war. I think it's impossible to find a solution that will last forever, unless, again, Bioware will go on Synthesis route (either by making all people mages or destroying magic). Which is stupid in my opinion.

[grimkillah]

In Exile wrote...
What if the mage wants to lead the community?


So how do they find the mages? Do we have the blood magic registry still going? Do the templars patrol towns, and get to ask for a mage's papers? Why would mages want to hunt other mages? 

The Templars is right next to the mage, you didn't read my original post at all have you? one sign of corruption and he cuts you down.

As for mage wanting to lead the community, if the community elect him/her, then why not.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh please.
Why not? Have you any idea what you could accomplish with mind control?

A well-adjusted person WOULD want to use (and abuse) that power.

If you try to mind control the Templar next to you will stop it. There are at least one Templar with you 24/7, both training you in dealing with daily tasks and cut you down if situation rises.

[The Elder King]

In Exile wrote...



Yes, but they might not be keen to do it as anything other than an entirely mage driven tribunal proccess, with templars answerable to them as enforces.

My point is just that this is all about assuming different things about human nature: (i) that the mundates are good people and won't try to burn lone mages at the stake; (ii) that mages won't believe they have a natural position as leaders of the mundates; (iii) that the system won't naturally trend, like it does with the Dalish, to put mages in positions of power and command; (iv) that people can resist temptations from actual demons, when they're going through periods of being immature; and so on.

I'm not saying that this system would work. I was talking from a mages's POV. They know that mundanes are capable of putting them in Circles (and not necessarily with good conditions), so if they ever gained freedom they should try to appease the mundanes by showing them that they'll show no mercy to mage crimes.
Regardless, I think that every solution found at the end of the war will last forever. As I'm neutral, I'd like to find a solution that grants mages more freedom and mundanes enough security, that will last for a good aumont of time. I created a thread proposing one (you can check my profile if you want), and some people suggested some improvements. I like it, and it seems reasonable enough to me, though I doubt that this choice will be present in DAI.

Modifié par hhh89, 02 décembre 2012 - 05:55 .