128 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaoswitcher]

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...

Troll thread?

Do I not sound serious? Clearly neither of you have played any of the Baldur's Gate series. Either that or your standards for these types of games have been significantly lowered as a result of all the garbage that has come out since BGII.

About the paying for the DC ReallyAngry6969 they worked on that
content after they finished the game so that content can be righfuly
sold as extra, they arnt tell people to buy it and they also gave you
two DC free so what more could you possible want without starting to
look greedy.

The thing is untill you work on a game or even a mod team you will not come to understand how much time and effort is needed to make content for a game that is AAA quality, its very hard indeed and so i got the non free DC right away.  It may be for more money but in the end its paying the guys thats have been and are working their ass off in the background.  Not the guys that get to go in the videos ( mostly the heads of depeartments ) but the guys lower down that do alot of the work.

Modifié par Chaoswitcher, 07 novembre 2009 - 01:39 .

[Koukin]

Your tears are extremely delicious! Could I have some more? Would be nice if there were more productive posts then these whining ones.

[ScreamingPalm]

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...
can you really argue that NPCs asking me for my credit card information before I help them doesn't ruin immersion? 

lol is this seriously in the game? I have to admit that I would have to agree with this, I haven't got the game yet but... eww? That has to be pretty damn annoying I would think. Thanks for posting this for a lurker Angry.

[Nosuchluck]

ScreamingPalm wrote...

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...
can you really argue that NPCs asking me for my credit card information before I help them doesn't ruin immersion? 

lol is this seriously in the game? I have to admit that I would have to agree with this, I haven't got the game yet but... eww? That has to be pretty damn annoying I would think. Thanks for posting this for a lurker Angry.

That's not actually in the game how he described but one of the dialogue choices when responding to a sales NPC is [Go to the website] or something similiar which links you to a page where you can buy the content. Sucky if you ask me.

[cocaholic]

wintermute1984 wrote...

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...

Why do I hate DLC so much? Because it's absurd. They very easily could have included all of it in the game at release. Why didn't they? Because they wanted more money, simple. DLC is concrete proof that the developers care more about money than the quality of the game- can you really argue that NPCs asking me for my credit card information before I help them doesn't ruin immersion?

Moreover, the story in this game is... unoriginal. The name of the enemy? Darkspawn. Wow, how creative. Two evil sounding words rammed together. "What's scary? Darkness- okay good, first word- dark. They're creatures that come from darkness- the spawn of the scary darkness. Second word- spawn. Darkspawn. Meeting adjourned."

 

I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to change your mind but here's a shot.

First of all, there really is more to DLC's than developers trying to make more money. I personally love DLCs, I think they are essentially bite size expansion packs (I'm sure you loved throne of Bhaal and didn't mind paying for it). You would think eventually you'll play 90% of the game (if not 100%) and put it in your archive/sell it. Wrong, thanks to DLCs, developers can expand the universe, keep the universe fresh and dynamic if they pump out DLCs and improve the shelf life of the game (in an ideal world of course, hope Bioware lives up to this ideal) and make some cash on the side for their efforts, and you get to enjoy the game longer.

I think the design choice by bioware, which is putting a "DLC merchant" on the nexus area of the game (the camp, equivalent of the normandy space ship from Mass Effect if you played that game) turned you off a lot, made you think "oh my god cheap marketing, product getting shoved down my throat".  I assume the real reason for the developer to do so was increasing the accessibility of upcoming DLC's without breaking immersion.
It's funny because I thought this was really brilliant and now I see a lot of people who hate it, here's the hardships of making a product that satisfies everyone. (I can even picture the Bioware employee who came up with that idea feeling awesome after he proposed it to his/her colleagues)

Don't worry, there are ALOT of meaningful side quests in this game and if the marketing for this game gives you "Bioware is a sleezy salesman" impression I would encourage you to examine Halo and GTA franchises

Now about the story... Well I already wrote a lot and I'll save that to another post, essentially I'm gonna have a tirade about presentation  and characterization makes seemingly lame stories awesome and lack of those kill awesome plots. Someone else can write about it too.

TL;DR

SUMMARY: BIOWARE, IF YOU MAKE GREAT, QUALITY DLCs, I'LL BUY THEM FIVE TIMES AND GIVE THE EXTRAS TO FINANCIALLY TROUBLED FRIENDS

well said.  i agree completely.  I remember when they used to call DLC expansion packs. People seem to forget its pretty much the same thing, except instead of waiting a year or two for a huge update we get smaller ones as they're completed and don't have to wait as long.  As you said it prevents people from selling their games and prolongs the value.  Its obvious if the op had played the game past the introduction that there is more value there than 99% of the games released nowadays.  Its an incredible amount of content! So much story!  Oh i'm sorry you wanted more than the 100 hours of content in the box.  In 5 hrs, you haven't seen sh*t so stop complaining about your precious side quests. Trust me, they're there.  Off the top of my head I can think of several that are NOT you're typical fetch quests but require some interesting puzzles. (juggernaut armor, also the several in the circle, many more that i haven't bothered with).

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

BGII is my favorite game of all time, cross-genre and cross-platform. While, since I've not beat DA:O yet, I can't say whether DA:O will dethrone it, it certainly seems the closest Bioware game to BG2 since BG2. Calling it the spirtual successor to BG2 is fitting.



About the whole greed / DLC issue, the reality is games are way UNDERPRICED. The price of games has remained constant for a long long time despite inflation and vastly increased development cost. Putting out a game like DA:O is also very risky -- by no means guaranteed to be a success like, say, Madden or Call of Duty. Personally, I am in the niche that prefers RPGs of this style to any other type of game (not to say I dislike Bethesda style RPGs or FPSes or Action RPGs). I am very concerned that they will stop being made because I bet a game like Mass Effect will have a much higher profit margin. So do I love the DLC being sold? Not really. However, it is a clever way of allowing Bioware to get more money out of us, because God knows most people would not be willing to pay 100.00 for a video game in the store.



So, what do we have? A company figuring out a way to squeeze money out of a very risky game of a seemingly dying genre that I am in love with. So, I look on it more as my Bioware-Will-Continue-To-Make-This-Kind-Of-Game Tax. Point is, video games SHOULD cost more. I would pay more for them and I suspect most people would pay more, if the 50.00 pc 60.00 console price weren't so ingrained in us. So I'm all for anything that will allow Bioware to increase its margins and be motivated to keep making this type of game.

[ScreamingPalm]

I have no issue with DLC itself, and have no issue paying more for my games (which I often do with my niche matrix strategy titles). I DO have issue with "NPC's asking for credit card info"- and even though that was exaggerated, I don't like the idea of DLC being sold ingame. Perhaps this will vanish once the GOTY edition comes out with this content included so it may not affect me at all, just seems odd and a tad nauseating.

[cocaholic]

Chris_Really_Rocks wrote...

BGII is my favorite game of all time, cross-genre and cross-platform. While, since I've not beat DA:O yet, I can't say whether DA:O will dethrone it, it certainly seems the closest Bioware game to BG2 since BG2. Calling it the spirtual successor to BG2 is fitting.

About the whole greed / DLC issue, the reality is games are way UNDERPRICED. The price of games has remained constant for a long long time despite inflation and vastly increased development cost. Putting out a game like DA:O is also very risky -- by no means guaranteed to be a success like, say, Madden or Call of Duty. Personally, I am in the niche that prefers RPGs of this style to any other type of game (not to say I dislike Bethesda style RPGs or FPSes or Action RPGs). I am very concerned that they will stop being made because I bet a game like Mass Effect will have a much higher profit margin. So do I love the DLC being sold? Not really. However, it is a clever way of allowing Bioware to get more money out of us, because God knows most people would not be willing to pay 100.00 for a video game in the store.

So, what do we have? A company figuring out a way to squeeze money out of a very risky game of a seemingly dying genre that I am in love with. So, I look on it more as my Bioware-Will-Continue-To-Make-This-Kind-Of-Game Tax. Point is, video games SHOULD cost more. I would pay more for them and I suspect most people would pay more, if the 50.00 pc 60.00 console price weren't so ingrained in us. So I'm all for anything that will allow Bioware to increase its margins and be motivated to keep making this type of game.

as long as the core game is a good value (like DA), then i'm all for it as well.

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

I agree it is distasteful. But the greater evil would be Bioware not wanting to make these games anymore because they'd pull more money from ME. I wonder if having the option to buy in game as opposed to at the main menu for example notifying you of new content available will actually result in more money for Bioware. I'm not convinced, but it's worth a try.

[mkess]

No, Games should not generally cost more. What they really need is a quality factor for game. There are "chaep" games ost, like some "simply" and short Egoshooters, or "puzzlegames" Tat cost the same amount of mony, as an epic roleplaying game, a complicated and deep tactic game or an huge space sim.



Maybe the "cent per hour" factor, the time, the player has fun with the game, should be counted in. Or some other factors like "has it Multiplayer, and many maps? How is the replay value of the game? Is an editor included, and custum content available?



These are all factors, that should in my opinion be included in the price of a game. The momentary "all games cost the same" will only drop the value of all games, because it is much easier to produce a cheap game, and sell it for a full prize. .

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

I'm all for different games costing different amounts of money. That said, while I can see casual games like peggle costing less than 50.00, I can't imagine what non casual games should.

[cocaholic]

mkess wrote...

No, Games should not generally cost more. What they really need is a quality factor for game. There are "chaep" games ost, like some "simply" and short Egoshooters, or "puzzlegames" Tat cost the same amount of mony, as an epic roleplaying game, a complicated and deep tactic game or an huge space sim.

Maybe the "cent per hour" factor, the time, the player has fun with the game, should be counted in. Or some other factors like "has it Multiplayer, and many maps? How is the replay value of the game? Is an editor included, and custum content available?

These are all factors, that should in my opinion be included in the price of a game. The momentary "all games cost the same" will only drop the value of all games, because it is much easier to produce a cheap game, and sell it for a full prize. .

Thats sort of happened already, just look at xbla or psn or steam and you'll find lots of cheaper games that don't have the same production value of a full on $60 title.  Problem is it costs in the millions for both a 10hr. shooter like call of duty and a 100 hr. epic like da.  Action games make a LOT more money on average than long epic rpgs in the states so they're usually preferred by publishers because they make more profit.  

It would be pretty cool, though, if there was one more popular price point, but i fear that if it was, say $80, it would become the new standard and we'd all be paying that for every big release instead of just the ones that really deserve the price.

[klownkill]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

klownkill wrote...

Once
they have released about 20 DLC at $7 a pop some of these trolls will
realize that paying for all the side quest will cost in the
hundreds($140+) for this game.

Here we see a fine
example of a CDM(Crybaby Defense Mechanism) in action. If you disagree
with someone, label them a "troll."

I said the trolls I didn't call some one a troll in that post. Get your fact right please as your post is misleading..........

[Mosh83]

I think this game is awesome, but I must agree on the point of Warden's Keep - it's a bit of a bummer being in your camp for the first time, getting to talk to a guy who gives you a seemingly interesting quest... and then having to pay for the quest. It's a bit of a shame because everyone has just payed the full price for the game, only to have to pay more. Collector's Editions are about extra material stuff with the game, not extra in-game content. Useless stuff like companion pets in WoW are okay, and cloth maps etc.

Other than that I find this game fantastic, I wish I didn't have to sit at work now instead of playing it. BG it is not, but I've got BG2 installed and a game in progress there too, so I can enjoy that when I want =)

Edit: About game prices... in the Euro zone I'm already paying a lot more than others, and considering it's a digital download there's no cost to Bioware for shipping, packaging materials, printed manual etc...

So I think the price is just right.

Modifié par Mosh83, 07 novembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[IronVanguard]

Personally, I don't even get the DLC rage....

I mean, it's one guy in a camp with a quest, and one of the options says "Buy Warden's Keep."

I mean, I suppose I did know all about Warden's Keep before hand, but...



I really don't see the issue. It's just one little thing.

[allothernamesweretaken]

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...
.After five hours of gameplay

Found your problem, idiot.

[VernRyan]

Sorry I cant see how giving me the possibility to ignore the big threat to the world in battling the blight to go do a side quest to find someones missing livestock would make the game better.

[Bouldir]

Wow I haven't even started playing yet, and I read the OP here and just thought, "Wow this guy has never played any decent RPGs before has he?" Almost all the best RPGs keep you contained and linear for quite a number of hours before opening up. If you calling foul after 5 hours you obviously don't have the experience your saying you do in playing these games.



As to the DLC advert? Who the F cares. It's there because a lot of people wouldn't even KNOW about the DLC if it wasn't advertised. So you can't go on that quest, big deal.



My advice to the OP and anyone else with the same issue, stop wasting your time B*tching here and hitting the refresh button, so you can B*tch at people trying to point out your incorrect assumptions and go put 5 more hours into the game.

[Wretched Gnu]

Here's the thing: the developer's investors and managers have been telling them for years that single-player-oriented games like this are dead in the water. Not because there isn't a market for them, but because such products do not allow for the continual revenue stream of an online game. So Bioware has to propose a business plan that includes the possibility of after-purchase purchases, like Blizzard gets with WoW. Don't blame the designers: I guarantee this is part of the deal they had to cut to get this thing financed.

Investors and managers want all games to have some kind of online component, because that's what keeps the customer in contact with the producers, which is the best way to keep open a window of opportunity for a further purchase (of whatever kind; DLC, other games in the catalog, etc.)

This is why you have the seemingly pointless opportunity to stay logged onto their servers while you're playing. The new model is: constant contact between customer and content provider.

Modifié par Wretched Gnu, 07 novembre 2009 - 08:08 .

[msbouvier]

1) Levi isn't the first side-quest in the game, by a long shot. I discover more each time I play through. And I have played through a LOT.



2) There are so many side quests in the game already that it's ridiculous people are even considering a "pay-for-all-extra-quests" future a possibility. There are what, two side-quests for purchase now? Compared to all the Chantry boards, all the Innkeepers, dudes in cities, dudes in main plot areas like Brec. forest, etc., not to mention the quests started by objects hidden around each area and by followers. If someone wants to come up with a number on this, I would be so glad--there have got to be well over a hundred side-quests that take you all over--including to new areas--and everyone gets their underwear in a bundle about having to pay for another two that come with a bunch of neat stuff beyond the gameplay. Seriously?

[krabman]

I do agree with the OP on one point. I dont like that there is a guy there in the game offering a quest which has to be paid for and downloaded. If I want dlc I will go to that menu, browse it, and buy whatever interests me or not as the case might be. I DO NOT want what amounts to an advertisement in the game. Ever.



Not sure where the "no side quests" thing comes from, I have a dozen ongoing and have solved many. Considering that free content will be coming soon and some of it good I just cant agree with the point either out of the gate or down the road.

[VanDraegon]

Some gamers are such drama queens when their expectations are not met.

[Krips1234]

the OP is completely correct, why is he a troll? He is right. I like DAO but to make you pay to do additional quests after just purchasing the game is a joke.

[Viscount Thalvaus]

ReallyAngry6969 wrote...

Found them? I've found them- but I haven't been able to do them because I don't want to pay $7 dollars to download them.

...

You don't understand what people mean when they say troll.

Hail Grey Warden,

The fact that they sell content on the first day is not simply because of profit hungry corporations as claimed, albeit it is always a part of it in an organization made to make money.

Such content was released with the Collector's Edition of the game, if I recall correctly, and then sold to those who perhaps wanted it at another date and didn't reserve a collector's edition in time or bought a normal version.

Would you have them not give us the ability to download it at all?  Or would you have them make the collector's edition less fruitful by giving us supposed exclusive content for free?

In truth, while they profit, it was also for our sakes that they allowed for such things to be sold.

Furthermore, when people called you a troll hitherto I'd imagine it was because you admitted to only playing the game for "Five hours".  Give the game a chance and play through it, I'm sure you will be pleasently suprised by it.  If you aren't, then just wait for a time and player made content will become available with their released toolset.

The game is more than worth what we paid for it, and even got a specific award for that very fact by Gamespot.

If you are truly outraged by what you were given, then you were given the ability to give the people you believe were ripped off a campaign they deserve; download the toolset and make us a game that is a true spiritual successor to the beloved BG2.

"In war, victory
In peace, vigilance
In death, sacrifice'"

I look forward to journeying in your lands, friend.

[VanDraegon]

Krips1234 wrote...

the OP is completely correct, why is he a troll? He is right. I like DAO but to make you pay to do additional quests after just purchasing the game is a joke.

Bioware isnt making you pay for anything. You you want the extra ones, buy them. If not, so be it.