143 réponses à ce sujet

[SpunkyMonkey]

Just wondering if you preffer to play a game which is somene else's story, or one which you feel is your own? Also, how much of a difference you think character creation makes to that and your Fantasy RPG experience overall?

For me character creation is such a core element in D&D style games, that I'm quite frankly gobsmacked by the amount of dumbing down we're now seeing in games based on D&D foundations.

I'm playing through BG2 currently, and such a large part of the charm is the vast array of races/classes etc. available to me. It will be a big shame if Bioware continue to go down this route IMO.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

My story, either in the form of free will construction sandbox games or through series of TRUE choices and consequences in story driven mode. I don't give a crap of other people story in my game. If I want other people story, I'd spend 2 hours watching a dvd movie or cinema without pausing.

how much of a difference character creation makes to your Fantasy RPG experience?

It's easy. I don't buy and play a RPG with no character creation.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:27 .

[Plaintiff]

I couldn't care less.

There are very few character creation systems that satisfy me, if anything it's an exercise in trying to create the look I hate least.

The few that I do like keep things very simple (with the exception of Soul Calibur's system), and don't try very hard to look realistic.

The only stories that are "mine" are the ones I write myself, from scratch. I play games to experience the narrative, world and characters that others have created. I'd rather play a set protagonist and discover his personality than have a blank slate whose personality only exists in my head.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Kidd]

I enjoy collaboration. Basically I've always seen BioWare games as emulations of a PnP gaming session where the developers play the part of the game master (the companions are the PCs of the other people around the table). Just like I enjoy having a framework given to me and then expressing my character within that scene, I enjoy experiencing "my story" and "the authored narrative" in coexistence.

Sometimes, to tell a story, a GM will restrict you in some way. I'm sure the vast majority of D&D games are based on the adventuring party for instance, so choosing to play a farmer is basically flipping the GM off. Similarly, the GM (BW) has asked me not to roll a dwarf, elf or qunari in DA3 but other than that I'm sure I get to express my character with a lot of freedom regardless.

All fine by me.

[Maria Caliban]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Just wondering how much of a difference character creation makes to your Fantasy RPG experience?

It makes a difference.

For me character creation is such a core element in D&D style games, that I'm quite frankly gobsmacked by the amount of dumbing down we're now seeing in games based on D&D foundations.

Removing the ability to play a half-orc is not 'dumbing down.'

That said, what does the thread title has to do with the original post? Is your criteria for a story being yours that you can play a half-elf rogue/mage?

I've never played a BioWare game where I thought the story was mine.

[Face of Evil]

It's always someone's else's story, unless I make up my own plot and characters. It's good to be able to make decisions within that framework, but to borrow a metaphor others have used, I'm not going to kick over the table if the DM tells me to pick a character appropriate to the setting he's using.

F*** YOU AND YOUR DARK SUNS AND YOUR ERRBEBBONS I WANNA BE A POKEMON TRAINER

Modifié par Face of Evil, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:21 .

[upsettingshorts]

All single-player cRPGs are collaborations.

They differ in how much input you are allowed to provide, how much they respond to your choices, and how much they actively impede your imagination in favor of their own narrative.

Ultimately a given player's preferences as to how much of any of these they want in a game is something of a Goldilocks problem.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Maria Caliban wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Just wondering how much of a difference character creation makes to your Fantasy RPG experience?

It makes a difference.

For me character creation is such a core element in D&D style games, that I'm quite frankly gobsmacked by the amount of dumbing down we're now seeing in games based on D&D foundations.

Removing the ability to play a half-orc is not 'dumbing down.'

That said, what does the thread title has to do with the original post? Is your criteria for a story being yours that you can play a half-elf rogue/mage?

I've never played a BioWare game where I thought the story was mine.

My original wording was a bit poor, I've edited it now - guess it's two seperate questions really, but I'd say they were interlinked.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Face of Evil wrote...

It's always someone's else's story, unless I make up my own plot and characters. It's good to be able to make decisions within that framework, but to borrow a metaphor others have used, I'm not going to kick over the table if the DM tells me to pick a character appropriate to the setting he's using.

F*** YOU AND YOUR DARK SUNS AND YOUR ERRBEBBONS I WANNA BE A POKEMON TRAINER

Is it? I'd say Fallout 3, DA:O, BG2, Morrowind etc. all felt like my story. In a different time/place/dimension/whatever, but it felt like me living out my fantasy life there - unlike ME, DA:2, The Witcher etc. which felt like someone elses tale.

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Is it? I'd say Fallout 3, DA:O, BG2, Morrowind etc. all felt like my story. In a different time/place/dimension/whatever, but it felt like me living out my fantasy life there - unlike ME, DA:2, The Witcher etc. which felt like someone elses tale. 

It depends on your preferences and priorities.  

Personally, for something to feel like "my" story it would have to react dynamically to my choices in a way videogames simply cannot.  Every single-player cRPG demands I work within whatever confines it establishes, provided I want to advance in any significant way.  

Can a game get too restricted for even my tastes?  Sure.  But what's most important to me is that within whatever freedom said game allows, my choices result in active feedback from the game itself.  For example one of the things that makes me prefer Fallout: New Vegas to Fallout 3 or even Skyrim is the faction reputation system.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:25 .

[Face of Evil]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Is it? I'd say Fallout 3, DA:O, BG2, Morrowind etc. all felt like my story. In a different time/place/dimension/whatever, but it felt like me living out my fantasy life there - unlike ME, DA:2, The Witcher etc. which felt like someone elses tale. 

Not me. I'm merely the strange god directing the actions of a mortal completely subservient to my whims; s/he relies on me to fight, to talk and to do all other protagonist-related activities. But they are still a seperate being from myself. I'm content to share in the puppet's pain and joy.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Face of Evil wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Is it? I'd say Fallout 3, DA:O, BG2, Morrowind etc. all felt like my story. In a different time/place/dimension/whatever, but it felt like me living out my fantasy life there - unlike ME, DA:2, The Witcher etc. which felt like someone elses tale. 

Not me. I'm merely the strange god directing the actions of a mortal completely subservient to my whims; s/he relies on me to fight, to talk and to do all other protagonist-related activities. But they are still a seperate being from myself.

You see, you can play both games your way as they are -  characters with both a pre-detirmined personailty/setup can be guided by your god-like hand, as can those which you create.

However, those people who put themselves in the role of the character may struggle buy into that when the character is pre-detirmined for them.

So for me character-creation is the only method which covers all bases and keeps everyone happy.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[cowoline]

I ALWAYS create my own. Except from in Masseffect, the character creator for women is terrible!

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Eh it is a tricky question to be honest. The developer writes the story and creates the characters and the world so really it is their story. But in a game that allows the player to see through the eyes of a character that develops down the path the player chooses and with a plot and world that is at least partially shaped by the actions of the player it would be unfair to say that the player takes no ownership of the story even if it is only a 95 - 5 split.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

RainbowPuppy wrote...

What's most important for me is that I feel like the character I create is as much a character with a part in the world as any other NPC, with friends and a family and where other people react to the choices I make. DA2 was a little better than DAO in this regard, so the restrictions in character creation I can deal with.

Unless the character I am playing has amnesia I hate it when other characters reference events in my characters past as if they are supposed to mean something to me, personally I prefer the wandering stranger in a foreign land as both the player and the character know little about the place they have just arrived in and neither have any relationship with any of the characters who currently inhabit it, puts the character and the player on the same level which I feel is important in an RPG, Amnesia works well in this regard as well.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

RainbowPuppy wrote...

What's most important for me is that I feel like the character I create is as much a character with a part in the world as any other NPC, with friends and a family and where other people react to the choices I make. DA2 was a little better than DAO in this regard, so the restrictions in character creation I can deal with.

Unless the character I am playing has amnesia I hate it when other characters reference events in my characters past as if they are supposed to mean something to me, personally I prefer the wandering stranger in a foreign land as both the player and the character know little about the place they have just arrived in and neither have any relationship with any of the characters who currently inhabit it, puts the character and the player on the same level which I feel is important in an RPG, Amnesia works well in this regard as well.

Another great reason to include origin stories.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

RainbowPuppy wrote...

What's most important for me is that I feel like the character I create is as much a character with a part in the world as any other NPC, with friends and a family and where other people react to the choices I make. DA2 was a little better than DAO in this regard, so the restrictions in character creation I can deal with.

Unless the character I am playing has amnesia I hate it when other characters reference events in my characters past as if they are supposed to mean something to me, personally I prefer the wandering stranger in a foreign land as both the player and the character know little about the place they have just arrived in and neither have any relationship with any of the characters who currently inhabit it, puts the character and the player on the same level which I feel is important in an RPG, Amnesia works well in this regard as well.

Another great reason to include origin stories.

huh, I thought it was an argument against them.

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Another great reason to include origin stories.

Those introduce facts about a character's past and limit characterization, exchanging this freedom for exposition and some narrative relevance.  

To demonstrate this:

Load up Dragon Age: Origins and try to roleplay a Dalish mage without using mods.

There are a lot of character archetypes you simply cannot use without outright ignoring the content of the origins.  Like... non-mage human commoners.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:39 .

[AshenShug4r]

I cease to be and I become them. Their story is my story.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Another great reason to include origin stories.

Those introduce facts about a character's past and limit characterization, exchanging this freedom for exposition and some narrative relevance.  

To demonstrate this:

Load up Dragon Age: Origins and try to roleplay a Dalish mage without using mods.

There are a lot of character archetypes you simply cannot use without outright ignoring the content of the origins.  Like... non-mage human commoners.

I've never used mods and find that fairly straight forward to be honest as I chose that role - I chose to be Dalish and a Mage, and any backstory related to that makes sense they are all offshoots of choices which I have already made myself.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:56 .

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

I've never used mods and find that fairly straight forward to be honest as I chose that role - I chose to be Dalish and a Mage, and any backstory related to that makes sense they are all offshoots of choices which I have already made myself.

Then you ignored the content of the origin story, just like I said you'd have to, since there is no Dalish mage origin.

You could pretend you're a Dalish mage in the Tower anyway, but the origin itself doesn't acknowledge or contribute to this interpretation , thus ignoring the benefit origin stories actually provide.  So if you're going to take that approach, you're better off asking for a blank slate protagonist like Gandalf-the-Fabulous.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

I've never used mods and find that fairly straight forward to be honest as I chose that role - I chose to be Dalish and a Mage, and any backstory related to that makes sense they are all offshoots of choices which I have already made myself.

Then you ignored the content of the origin story, just like I said you'd have to.

Since there is no Dalish mage origin.

Apologies, I mistook "Dalish" for "Elf" - but trying to be clever on technicalities just to win a debate shows just where your true intentions lie - in trying to win a debate, not actually discuss the topic with an open mind, and doesn't change my point.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[cephasjames]

It's a bit of their story and my story. BioWare creates the story with it's beginning(s), middle part(s) and ending(s). The story will only precede according to the structure and elements they create. That makes the story theirs. But they have created the story in such a way that I have the ability to choose which way those elements play out. That makes the story mine. But, I would have to say, if I was only able to choose "my story" or "their story," I'd say it is their story because they are the ones who wrote it and who gave me the elements to choose from.