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#26
upsettingshorts

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Apologies, I mistook "Dalish" for "Elf" - but trying to be clever on technicalities just to win a debate shows just where your true intentions lie - in trying to win a debate, not actually discuss the topic with an open mind, and doesn't change my point.


"Dalish" versus "elf" is not a technicality.  Dalish mages and elf Circle mages are categorically different backgrounds with wildly different life experiences and points of view.

My point is very, very simple:  Origins are explicit backstories.  Explicit backstories are inherently limiting.  On the other hand if you have a blank slate protagonist, that means you can invent whatever backstory you want.   

My "true intention" is to guide discussions down paths that are actually coherent.

#27
Giltspur

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Novelists (or perhaps their editors) talk about wanting to achieve character identification, that moment when a reader decides she buys into the main character's want, will be invested in the struggle and want to see things through to the end. 

I think the goal in all story-heavy games, especially role playing games, is to get gamers to click with the main character and to feel invested in the adventure that's to come.  That's character identifiction in the context of video games.  And for me that's happened for different reasons.

In Icewind Dale, I probably enjoyed coming up characters, picking the portraits and writing their biographies more than I ever did the game itself.  I didn't just come up with the characters out of thin air.  I had party composition in mind.  I might even have been inspired by some portrait art that I saw on all those portrait sites there were back then.  And then the descriptions of the kits on the boards for Icewind Dale II had an impact on my designs as well--even if kits ultimately never made it into the sequel (as they shifted to D&D 3 in the course of development).  So there the games or the community gave me something, and I in turn created something.  And my having created something ultimately made the game better.  Losing race selection would have been terrible in a game like Icewind Dale because it would have cut into my way of getting into the game.  Having only three classes would have been terrible because the variety of classes served as a catalyst to ideas for characters.

But for me, losing races and having fewer classes in a game like Baldur's Gate II wouldn't actually have made any big difference.  I'm glad they're there, as more is always good.  But, for me, they weren't essential.  What got me into BGII was Viconia, Jaheira, Edwin, Jan, Minsc, Keldorn, Nalia...you get the idea.  It's was how I felt about the party members that defined my character.  It was those intraparty relationships and how I felt about them that were the decisions that informed how I thought about my character.

It was the same way in Dragon Age: Origins.  The origins were very cool, no doubt.  And I had a character concept that informed the kind of face tattoos I picked for my first Warden.  It impacted the spells I chose to focus on.  And that was cool.  But it wasn't the coolest thing about DAO.  The coolest thing was that the way I thought about my character evolved because of how I reacted to the different characters in the party.  "Alistair's not a good leader and always wants to defer to me.  I'm not really some obvious leader either here.  And Morrigan's too obviously contrarian to lead anyone.  So, I guess I'll be...what...positive?  Ugh."  Or "Well, the party's suspicious of Morrigan.  How do I feel about this person?"  "My first instinct is to spare Loghain.  But how will Alistair feel?  Would I really let my feelings for someone else's feelings impact a life-and-death decision?  Is it possible that Alistair has a point? Is mercy sometimes the easy way out and not the right thing?"  For me, a Bioware game is about the game and the characters in the game.  Role-playing possibility isn't front-loaded in Bioware games as in games like Icewind Dale (or Elder Scrolls or MMO's), where, as a result, character creation options matter a lot more to me.

Ultimately I have to be able to make decsisions.  Race is one kind of decision.  Decisions at character creation are another kind of decision.  Decisions made in the course of a game are another.  I try to step back from things and look at a game and go "What decisions are there for me, and are they cool?"  And so there's a variety of ways to go about letting people have choice and get into a story and have that writer-gamer collaboration that is part of a single-player RPG. I obviously don't want games to become an increasingly passive experience where I don't get to be a storyteller as well.  I don't, though, think there's any one essential feature (race choice, gender choice, silent protagonsit, party size) that's required for that character identification that gets me invested in a role. Ultimately, I want to contribute to a story in an environment that facilitates that.  They do that by giving me conflict--something to struggle with and resolve.  And so they're going to have to fuel those conflicts with their stories and their characters.  They'll just have to find ways to leave room my storytelling as well.  In general though, by necessity, it has to be a collaboration.

Modifié par Giltspur, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:51 .


#28
SpunkyMonkey

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Apologies, I mistook "Dalish" for "Elf" - but trying to be clever on technicalities just to win a debate shows just where your true intentions lie - in trying to win a debate, not actually discuss the topic with an open mind, and doesn't change my point.


"Dalish" versus "elf" is not a technicality.  Dalish mages and elf Circle mages are categorically different backgrounds with wildly different life experiences and points of view.

My point is very, very simple:  Origins are explicit backstories.  Explicit backstories are inherently limiting.  On the other hand if you have a blank slate protagonist, that means you can invent whatever backstory you want.   

My "true intention" is to guide discussions down paths that are actually coherent.


lol, you really aren't someone who can accept that others aren't total geeks devoted 100% to fantasy worlds are you?

I'm sorry, but I'm really not that anal when it comes to DA lore. Dalish = elf to me, you're right that isn't the case technically, but I'm not that into fantasy lore to care.

And not if you're the one choosing that backstory they aren't. That story is a concequence of your choice in the first place.

Let me put it this way - if I say I am a Dalish/Elf Mage my next step is to see ow my life has unfolded up until the point which we are introduced to the story. Life, no matter how much freedom you have, doesn't evolve according to your choices alone, so I can accept that. Playing as a totally different character is a different story to that entirely though. It feels as if it's their choices which have taken you there in the first place.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:38 .


#29
upsettingshorts

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

lol, you really aren't someone who can accept that others aren't total geeks devoted 100% to fantasy worlds are you?

I'm sorry, but I'm really not that anal when it comes to DA lore. Dalish = elf to me, you're right that isn't the case technically, but I'm not that into fantasy lore to care.


:lol:

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
And not if you're the one choosing that backstory they aren't. That story is a concequence of your choice in the first place.


In other words, any protagonist can be a blank slate protagonist when you don't care or pay attention!

What I care about is people saying what they mean, and meaning what they say.  Welcome to the BSN, where neither is common.  You'll fit right in.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:38 .


#30
Maria Caliban

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I find explicit backgrounds and pre-defined characters offer narrative promise that are generally not fulfilled.

Take Dues Ex: HR for example. The character is per-defined, but I find his personality much the same as many generic action heroes. We learn that he was a test subject for a super-secret project and that his DNA might lead to immune-system integration of synthetic body parts. But it’s background information that leads nowhere.

Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Origins both attempted to give background narrative relevance, especially DA II. But like a lot of things in DA II, its handling was uneven. I think it could have been better integrated into your interactions with others.

I expect DA:I’s backgrounds to simply be role-play hooks for those that like them but not something that’s fleshed out to narrative relevance.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 novembre 2012 - 12:42 .


#31
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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

lol, you really aren't someone who can accept that others aren't total geeks devoted 100% to fantasy worlds are you?

I'm sorry, but I'm really not that anal when it comes to DA lore. Dalish = elf to me, you're right that isn't the case technically, but I'm not that into fantasy lore to care.


I don't think he's being anal. A big part of the Dalish is how they relate to elves who are not them - i.e, they think they're the only true elves while dismissing the rest as "flat-ears" who are no better than the humans they live with. Lumping them all together is not a minor breach of lore.

#32
SpunkyMonkey

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@Upsetting Shorts & RainbowPuppy

Well thankyou for both rectifying my DA lore and correcting me. I honestly don't know how I'd have coped throughout the rest of my life, or even possibly playing any future DA games, without being able to make the critical distinction between Dalish and Elf.

Next time I receive a government questionnaire asking me which fantasy race I like the most I'll be so grateful that you both steered me to tick the correct box for "Elf" as opposed to "Dalish". the difference that could make in all our lives is just tremendous. :lol:

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 30 novembre 2012 - 01:22 .


#33
SpunkyMonkey

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Maria Caliban wrote...

I find explicit backgrounds and pre-defined characters offer narrative promise that are generally not fulfilled.

Take Dues Ex: HR for example. The character is per-defined, but I find his personality much the same as many generic action heroes. We learn that he was a test subject for a super-secret project and that his DNA might lead to immune-system integration of synthetic body parts. But it’s background information that leads nowhere.

Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Origins both attempted to give background narrative relevance, especially DA II. But like a lot of things in DA II, its handling was uneven. I think it could have been better integrated into your interactions with others.

I expect DA:I’s backgrounds to simply be role-play hooks for those that like them but not something that’s fleshed out to narrative relevance.


Top, top post.

#34
Xewaka

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Maria Caliban wrote...
Take Deus Ex: HR for example. The character is per-defined, but I find his personality much the same as many generic action heroes. We learn that he was a test subject for a super-secret project and that his DNA might lead to immune-system integration of synthetic body parts. But it’s background information that leads nowhere.

You mean, other than the fact that it's the reason Jensen is not only working with Sarif Industries and the reason he can be extensely augmented without suffering drawbacks. Which allows the player to play without having an annoying "diprozane fix" mechanic getting in the way of the gameplay. Fact is, this narrative background allows the gamemakers to alleviate unfun, busywork mechanics without harming the general lore.
In an interactive medium such as videogames, it is important that we remember gameplay mechanics are a basic narrative tool.

Modifié par Xewaka, 30 novembre 2012 - 02:32 .


#35
nightscrawl

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

"Dalish" versus "elf" is not a technicality.  Dalish mages and elf Circle mages are categorically different backgrounds with wildly different life experiences and points of view.

My point is very, very simple:  Origins are explicit backstories.  Explicit backstories are inherently limiting.  On the other hand if you have a blank slate protagonist, that means you can invent whatever backstory you want.

Hm... I think this mage example is not the best. Pretty much the only background you have as a mage is that (1) you have been there for many years, but you don't know exactly how long*, (2) you have known Jowan for a long time.

With that extremely limited information, I think that the mage origin for both elf and human would be the most "blank slate" for roleplay. You could conceivably make your character a human commoner or a noble, or a city or Dalish elf**. There is nothing to either support or refute any sort of story you can make up. The same freedom is not at all possible with the other stories because those backgrounds are very specific.

I would say that the problem lies in the lack of dialog options pertaining to specific origins, particularly after Ostagar where the game starts blending all of them together into a single, generic, Warden character.



* Really the only hint about your age when you came to the circle is an on-click dialog from the teacher with the children who says that she remembers you at that age (8-10?), and that you were adorable.

** Regarding the Dalish elf and some issues that have been raised here: don't forget that mages are typically brought to the Circle when they are very young. Even if prejudices or beliefs had started forming they could certainly have been changed over the many years of being in the Circle. This applies to elves and humans alike: a noble's child is treated no differently from a farmer's child, and both of those human children are treated no differently from elven children. So really, even if a young Dalish was brought to the Circle with the beginnings of typical Dalish disdain for their city-elf cousins and shemlen, it doesn't necessarily follow that they would keep those same views.


SpunkyMonkey wrote...

@Upsetting Shorts & RainbowPuppy

Well thankyou for both rectifying my DA lore and correcting me.

Being a little hostile, aren't you? Lore is a very important part of the game, and also the basis for many players' roleplay decisions. If you don't care about the lore, that's fine. But the fact is that is does exist and forms the makeup of Thedas in the same way that our own history has shaped our world and its peoples. People can and will make involved forum posts using aspects of the lore as their chief argument for their cause.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:10 .


#36
upsettingshorts

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*rips hair out, leaves thread forever*

You either get the point that origin stories are explicit backgrounds that inherently restrict freedom in character creation in favor of providing exposition and the promise of narrative relevance or you're wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:14 .


#37
BBK4114

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Giltspur wrote...

Novelists (or perhaps their editors) talk about wanting to achieve character identification, that moment when a reader decides she buys into the main character's want, will be invested in the struggle and want to see things through to the end. 

I think the goal in all story-heavy games, especially role playing games, is to get gamers to click with the main character and to feel invested in the adventure that's to come.  That's character identifiction in the context of video games.  And for me that's happened for different reasons. 


Nice analysis. I think that you have identified a main sticking point with DA2 & some other games for me.  I had a really hard time identifying with Hawke, and it's not because of being a pre-set character because I've loved other games with pre-set characters (like the Witcher series - Geralt et al make me laugh.)

*snip*   
But it wasn't the coolest thing about DAO.  The coolest thing was that the way I thought about my character evolved because of how I reacted to the different characters in the party. ~ *snip* ~ For me, a Bioware game is about the game and the characters in the game.  Role-playing possibility isn't front-loaded in Bioware games as in games like Icewind Dale (or Elder Scrolls or MMO's), where, as a result, character creation options matter a lot more to me.

Ultimately I have to be able to make decsisions.  Race is one kind of decision.  Decisions at character creation are another kind of decision.  Decisions made in the course of a game are another.  I try to step back from things and look at a game and go "What decisions are there for me, and are they cool?"  And so there's a variety of ways to go about letting people have choice and get into a story and have that writer-gamer collaboration that is part of a single-player RPG. I obviously don't want games to become an increasingly passive experience where I don't get to be a storyteller as well.  I don't, though, think there's any one essential feature (race choice, gender choice, silent protagonsit, party size) that's required for that character identification that gets me invested in a role. Ultimately, I want to contribute to a story in an environment that facilitates that.  They do that by giving me conflict--something to struggle with and resolve.  And so they're going to have to fuel those conflicts with their stories and their characters.  They'll just have to find ways to leave room my storytelling as well.  In general though, by necessity, it has to be a collaboration.


I agree here too. I've loved my created characters, but even with mostly-set/voiced characters like Shepard I felt invested in the story (and I'm guessing others did by the reaction to the ending of ME3. :P)  

In the games I ultimately didn't like for whatever reason - none of those "essential" features clicked with me so in that respect they failed. I'm not saying that others would not find the PC or other characters or the story compelling, but they missed it for me. 

#38
nightscrawl

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I can get enjoyment from either type of story, but I would probably benefit most from the pre-defined character, as Hawke was. I really don't have an interest in creating a character from scratch, but having a basis for my character's behavior is appealing to me; I will also use it as a jumping off point for various head-canon (or mental fanfic, if you prefer that). An example of this would be the incidents in Hawke's youth that may have caused the family to move (as Bethany references) that I've thought up in moments of boredom.

I other words, my creativity only goes so far. While I can expand on already created material, coming up with my own is problematic.


Upsettingshorts wrote...

*rips hair out, leaves thread forever*

You either get the point that origin stories are explicit backgrounds that inherently restrict freedom in character creation in favor of providing exposition and the promise of narrative relevance or you're wrong.

My whole point was that your use of the mage was a bad way to explain it, since I don't think there is enough explicit information to restrict your freedom in that manner, unlike with the other origin stories, which I do agree on.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:25 .


#39
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nightscrawl wrote...

** Regarding the Dalish elf and some issues that have been raised here: don't forget that mages are typically
brought to the Circle when they are very young. Even if prejudices or beliefs had started forming they could certainly have been changed over the many years of being in the Circle. This applies to elves and humans
alike: a noble's child is treated no differently from a farmer's child, and both of those human children are treated no differently from elven children. So really, even if a young Dalish was brought to the Circle with the beginnings of typical Dalish disdain for their city-elf cousins and shemlen, it doesn't necessarily follow that they would keep those same views.


My point was simply that the Dalish are a very specific segment of the elven population and that "Dalish" and "elf" are not interchangable terms. Saying "Dalish" when you mean "elf" is a bit like saying "Orlesian" when you mean "human".

EDIT: Since you asked nicely!

Modifié par RainbowPuppy, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:30 .


#40
nightscrawl

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Use quotes people. We can't really tell who you're responding to without them, especially if two or three replies are posted within minutes of each other.

#41
Dhiro

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

@Upsetting Shorts & RainbowPuppy

Well thankyou for both rectifying my DA lore and correcting me. I honestly don't know how I'd have coped throughout the rest of my life, or even possibly playing any future DA games, without being able to make the critical distinction between Dalish and Elf.

Next time I receive a government questionnaire asking me which fantasy race I like the most I'll be so grateful that you both steered me to tick the correct box for "Elf" as opposed to "Dalish". the difference that could make in all our lives is just tremendous. :lol:


If you don't even know or care about the difference between a Dalish elf and a city elf then I'm not sure why different races or origins  even matter to you. After all, it's all the same thing anyway right?

Modifié par Dhiro, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:27 .


#42
SpunkyMonkey

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

*rips hair out, leaves thread forever*

You either get the point that origin stories are explicit backgrounds that inherently restrict freedom in character creation in favor of providing exposition and the promise of narrative relevance or you're wrong.


You either get that by creating your own character you have already played a part in creating that story yourself, or you're wrong :)

DA:O - Picks race, picks class, picks background (in whatever order before you start getting all anal on me, I'm at work and can;t remember specifically) , origin + story start.

You've already created that origin yourself and the origin story is a concequence of your choices.

#43
SpunkyMonkey

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Dhiro wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

@Upsetting Shorts & RainbowPuppy

Well thankyou for both rectifying my DA lore and correcting me. I honestly don't know how I'd have coped throughout the rest of my life, or even possibly playing any future DA games, without being able to make the critical distinction between Dalish and Elf.

Next time I receive a government questionnaire asking me which fantasy race I like the most I'll be so grateful that you both steered me to tick the correct box for "Elf" as opposed to "Dalish". the difference that could make in all our lives is just tremendous. :lol:


If you don't even know or care about the difference between a Dalish elf and a city elf then I'm not sure why different races or origins  even matter to you. After all, it's all the same thing anyway right?


Well no, because there's naff all difference between a Dalish elf and an elf, where there's a massive differences between a dwarf and an elf.

#44
SpunkyMonkey

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RainbowPuppy wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

** Regarding the Dalish elf and some issues that have been raised here: don't forget that mages are typically
brought to the Circle when they are very young. Even if prejudices or beliefs had started forming they could certainly have been changed over the many years of being in the Circle. This applies to elves and humans
alike: a noble's child is treated no differently from a farmer's child, and both of those human children are treated no differently from elven children. So really, even if a young Dalish was brought to the Circle with the beginnings of typical Dalish disdain for their city-elf cousins and shemlen, it doesn't necessarily follow that they would keep those same views.


My point was simply that the Dalish are a very specific segment of the elven population and that "Dalish" and "elf" are not interchangable terms. Saying "Dalish" when you mean "elf" is a bit like saying "Orlesian" when you mean "human".

EDIT: Since you asked nicely!


You are right, but it was a minor technicality that had little to do with my overall point. Much like if I'd spelt Elf "Ilf" - I meant Elf, simple as that. Yes I was mistaken and incorrectly substituted "Dalish" for "Elf", but that shouldn't then of become the focus of the debate, and it only did so because Upsetting Shorts won't do anything other than dictate and tell people "how it is". He flat out refuses to accept others POV and thus should just stay out of debates with people who are actually interested in discussing matters, not just trying to get one up on other people as some pointless badge of honour on an internet forum.

#45
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Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Unless the character I am playing has amnesia I hate it when other characters reference events in my characters past as if they are supposed to mean something to me, personally I prefer the wandering stranger in a foreign land as both the player and the character know little about the place they have just arrived in and neither have any relationship with any of the characters who currently inhabit it, puts the character and the player on the same level which I feel is important in an RPG, Amnesia works well in this regard as well.


A fault of both of the KotORs and why I can't validly RP in them. I personally can't stand the "amnesia" nonsense.

As for the story, I don't care. It doesn't need to be my story. What's important to me is that I can RP my character--that I'm given the choices necessary to do so. Having the choices is what matters, not whether the choice actually accomplishes anything--that's an immensely more complex level of RPing.

So I don't care if the story is "mine" or not.

#46
nightscrawl

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

You either get that by creating your own character you have already played a part in creating that story yourself, or you're wrong :)

DA:O - Picks race, picks class, picks background (in whatever order before you start getting all anal on me, I'm at work and can;t remember specifically) , origin + story start.

You've already created that origin yourself and the origin story is a concequence of your choices.

Let's move away from the mage thing and pick another, more specific, origin: the dwarven noble.

In case you've never played that: you are 1/3 children, the middle child, about to get a military command, and you have a hostile/competitive relationship with your older brother. You cannot choose to have a loving sibling relationship, it's simply not allowed. Those things are decided for you, by Bioware. Sure, you picked the origin story, but when you created your character for the first time you (most likely) did not know any of those things, so you cannot have really made an informed decision, and because the game does not tell you about these immutable facts about your character, you are limited from the very start.

Here you have a couple of options: you can ignore these limitations by pretending they don't exist, forging a head-canon for your character in the manner you prefer, OR you can roll with it and adapt the character to your whim, which isn't too terrible since most of the game's origin slips away once you get to Ostagar.


RainbowPuppy wrote...

My point was simply that the Dalish are a very specific segment of the elven population and that "Dalish" and "elf" are not interchangable terms. Saying "Dalish" when you mean "elf" is a bit like saying "Orlesian" when you mean "human".

That's true, but given the vagueness of the mage origin specifically, you could roleplay that aspect as if it has no significance for your character.

If you're just referring to players using the terms interchangeably, well of course you are right, particularly on forums where you have to be specific and clear about topics.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:49 .


#47
upsettingshorts

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nightscrawl wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

You either get that by creating your own character you have already played a part in creating that story yourself, or you're wrong :)

DA:O - Picks race, picks class, picks background (in whatever order before you start getting all anal on me, I'm at work and can;t remember specifically) , origin + story start.

You've already created that origin yourself and the origin story is a concequence of your choices.

Let's move away from the mage thing and pick another, more specific, origin: the dwarven noble.

In case you've never played that: you are 1/3 children, the middle child, about to get a military command, and you have a hostile/competitive relationship with your older brother. You cannot choose to have a loving sibling relationship, it's simply not allowed. Those things are decided for you, by Bioware. Sure, you picked the origin story, but when you created your character for the first time you (most likely) did not know any of those things, so you cannot have really made an informed decision, and because the game does not tell you about these immutable facts about your character, you are limited from the very start.

Here you have a couple of options: you can ignore these limitations by pretending they don't exist, forging a head-canon for your character in the manner you prefer, OR you can roll with it and adapt the character to your whim, which isn't too terrible since most of the game's origin slips away once you get to Ostagar.


Stop trying to dictate things to people to score points on an internet forum, you obviously don't care about SpunkyMonkey's precious point of view.

I find it hilarious that, in arguing a position I do not advocate (I don't like totally blank slate protagonists or origins as DA:O did them) I am being accused on trying to impose my views.  These aren't even my views.

nightscrawl wrote...

That's true, but given the vagueness of the mage origin specifically, you could roleplay that aspect as if it has no significance for your character.


This is what I meant by "ignore the content."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 novembre 2012 - 03:55 .


#48
nightscrawl

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

This is what I meant by "ignore the content."

If you need to have the reinforcement of your chosen roleplay through the dialog options, I think that is another matter entirely. I agree that this can be an issue for the more stringent roleplayers. Generic dialog is generic, and since dialog is the only way we can express our character in the game, the character can start to feel generic as well.

From my perspective there are a couple of roleplay elements at work here that haven't been defined. First, there is the personality and motivation you have chosen for your character's behavior, whether that is revenge, a desire for power, because you just want to help Thedas, or whathaveyou. This is done in your head, either before, during, or while playing the game. Second, there is the expression of your character's personality and motivation. This is done through direct action and dialog within the game, inherently limited because the game is pre-written by Bioware.

It can be argued (I like to look at all sides in these types of discussions) that pure roleply can never be accomplished in a cRPG because the game has been written by someone else. As such you will never get to say exactly what your character will want to say and can only pick the closest choice from the options provided. If it were a table-top RPG where you are physically surrounded by the other players, you can have the option of saying exactly what it is you want to say.

Now, these limitations matter more or less depending on the player, and some players will place more or less importance on the personality and motivation versus the expression of that. If you have decided that your character is going to be a hippie do-gooder, and that choice is all that is important to you in terms of roleplay, you can then look at the dialog options and decide among them which fits that role best. If on the other hand, you want your character to say a certain thing because of the motivation you've chosen, I think you will always come out short, and there will always have to be some leeway allowed because the game was not written by you.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2012 - 04:26 .


#49
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I like interacting with someone else's story. As RPGs (pnp and crpg) tend to do. Playing with the dynamics and options. Sort of like playing a sports game and knowing there are basic rules and boundaries to muck around with.

I don't care to float around in my own headspace, roleplaying all elements most of the time. That's something I encounter in some open world games, and I find them lonely and soulless. Bioware's always been one of preferences for the simple fact that they tell stories and have worthwhile writers on their teams.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 30 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .


#50
upsettingshorts

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nightscrawl wrote...

It can be argued (I like to look at all sides in these types of discussions) that pure roleply can never be accomplished in a cRPG because the game has been written by someone else. As such you will never get to say exactly what your character will want to say and can only pick the closest choice from the options provided. If it were a table-top RPG where you are physically surrounded by the other players, you can have the option of saying exactly what it is you want to say.


This is my actual position, personally.