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[Amirit]

I always saw Cerberus in ME3 as a "Fifth column" of the Reapers. Clearly, TIM was indoctrinated sometime right after Collectors. And as we know, Collectors themselves had unlimited resources which they used to buy people or anything and anyone they needed. So does TIM now. And though TIM thinks he is working on the plan of controlling reapers, in fact he is working for them.

So, when we fight Cerberus we are simply still fighting reapers.

[Display Name Owner]

Amirit wrote...

I always saw Cerberus in ME3 as a "Fifth column" of the Reapers. Clearly, TIM was indoctrinated sometime right after Collectors. And as we know, Collectors themselves had unlimited resources which they used to buy people or anything and anyone they needed. So does TIM now. And though TIM thinks he is working on the plan of controlling reapers, in fact he is working for them.

So, when we fight Cerberus we are simply still fighting reapers.

Well, I'm sure that was the idea, but I'd say it could have been presented much better. As it is, we get hints as to TIM's being indoctrinated in the conversation with him on Thessia; there are a couple of lines he delivers with just the slightest hint of uncertainty, like he's having to convince himself that he knows what he's doing. Then we see the Human Reaper and the video logs on Chronos Station. Aside from that, we're given no direct evidence that Cerberus command is under the effects of indoctrination. Their moves to thwart the Genophage cure and Krogan/Turian alliance and the other stuff they do can all be taken as actions taken in anticipation of the post-Reaper galaxy, rather than a Reaper-implanted desire to hinder the war effort. But for the majority of the game, there's no evidence given to suggest they're indoctrinated, in fact their work to control the Reapers suggests just the opposite. To me, they felt like an entirely separate faction from the Reapers.

[ioannisdenton]

txgoldrush wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...

Stop arguing with txgoldrush. You cannot win.
His headcanon skills is light years ahead of us.
His headcanon skills are over 9000
He is the best **** ever. Bioware does nothing wrong according to him.
He owns stocks of Bioware.
His attitude hurts Bioware in ways he cannot imagine. Justifying everything is terrible.
He claims Da2 is way better than DAO. ask him. (i do love DA2 also but lets be honest DAO >>> DA2)

Wow you are an idiot....

I have called DAO one of the most overrated RPGs this gen, completely bashed Jade Empire's morality system, thinks Neverwinter Nights is their worst game, and called Obsidian's KOTOR II better than the first Bioware made KOTOR. Nevermind I continuously bash Bioware's recycling of plots and characters...and even called Drew K overrated as a writer who cannot develop his characters properly.

I am far from a drone.

And it isn't headcanon...its simply all in the narrative you choose to ignore.

Well let this idiot tell you something amazing Headcanoneer
( are you a superhero?? Headcanoneer from Bioware defence justice league force team; lets call it BDJLFT from now on)
DAO had all it's choices matter in a way your beloved Me3 (and sadly my beloved) could only dream of.
MY assets i gathered in the whole NON LINEAR game actually mattered and were shown in the final battle. There were bosses , the characters did not act like complete idiots (liara on thessia, Thane ninja fighting, kai leng), the story made sense was not hard to follow, was in face value, did not require headcanon.
I won't eve n compare the length or the REPLAYABILITY.
Also yeah the story was cliche but Me3 AI vs man was not??
Ending and closure.. i ll just won't get into too deep into this particular.
All you keep mantioning is the narrative. Which narrative? Me3 has narrative now??
Lots of BSN members are arguing with you due to your obsession of defending every flaw Me3 has, this is not a coincidence.
It is ok to love Me3 (i too like the game) but at the same time stop defending it's terrible flaws.
That's it for now dear member of BDJLFT. See you in the next adventure.

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 02 décembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[xsamplexample]

they ruined cerberus in ME3. they should have been the ironic good guys, who turn out to be correct in their methods, although extreme. in ME3 theyr just space ****s....

[Arturia Pendragon]

Because the Call of Duty/Gears of War crowd doesn't care what the story claims the enemy is? They don't play a game for its story, just to pew-pew "bad guys", be it clowns, Care Bears, or N4zis.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 02 décembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[WheatleyHQ]

Well, if Cerberus wasn't in the game, I would be pretty bored just fighting the Reapers. Sure, the game is about fighting Reapers, but I'm pretty sure Bioware/EA isn't stupid enough to just add one enemy faction into the final installment of Mass Effect

[Vic-TIM of Circumstance]

xsamplexample wrote...

they ruined cerberus in ME3. they should have been the ironic good guys, who turn out to be correct in their methods, although extreme. in ME3 theyr just space ****s....

The only thing "ruined" about Cerberus is that they're never explained.  They have never been "good" or "bad," morals are completely irrelevant to them.  They have one goal and one goal only: the advancement of the Human  race.

Cerberus is honestly, in my opinion, more important thematically than the Reapers as antagonists.  They are the embodiement of the theme of greed and ambition present since the first game.  They are the exact quality of Humans the other species are terrified of in ME1.  

They demonstrate the tragic story of those who reach to high.  They are the story of Icarus.  They disregard their morality for the sake of advancement and in doing so, sacrifice their Humanity

[Funkdrspot]

ITT: whiners still whining and employing their usual tactics of feigned ignorance, excessively overused copypasta sarcasm and being pedantic.

Half of the complaints about ME 3 are from people who apparently did not pass basic college comprehension. To ask 'what is the point of cerberus' is to acknowledge that you need to be beaten over the head with the story for you to grasp it.

[Bourne Endeavor]

You are asking the wrong question, OP. Cerberus had some relevance, albeit they were handled terribly from the get go. What we need to know is how they went from a rogue terrorist organization to **** Germany on a galactic scale.

[nos_astra]

Funkdrspot wrote...

ITT: whiners still whining and employing their usual tactics of feigned ignorance, excessively overused copypasta sarcasm and being pedantic.

Half of the complaints about ME 3 are from people who apparently did not pass basic college comprehension. To ask 'what is the point of cerberus' is to acknowledge that you need to be beaten over the head with the story for you to grasp it.

Well, considering the impressive amount of analysis that has been done concerning narrative, factions and characters I'd say these people are actually more perceptive than the usual gamer and not at all unintelligent. Even smart people can be annoying and overly persistent. Admittedly, there are probably a few idiots among them on the bandwagon.

The point of Cerberus is not at all clear, unless you don't look too closely and content yourself with a very simple explanation like "they want to thwart Shepard for reasons and rule over everyone by using the Reapers". That's not hard to grasp. It's just that their actions often hurt such a goal. Do they want to destroy the Crucible? Do they want to steal it? How does TIM even know what it does if the guys building it have no clue what it does?

Like every other faction they are being dumbed down and serve primarily to make Shepard look good. This wasn't that obvious when they were working with Shepard, just like the Alliance's and the Council's incompetence is less pronounced the moment they are Shepard's allies and not needed to highlight how superior Shepard is. 

Cerberus were idiots to shoot at in ME1, they were allies and therefore better characterized in ME2, they're back to being idiots in ME3. And the reason for this is: The writing for ME in general is overrated and mostly sucks.

Modifié par klarabella, 02 décembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[Anthadlas]

BleedingUranium wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Nrieh wrote...

you got have some paywalls if you want to know the whole story of me3....

Yep. While with rest 2 games "extra" content added to universe and game storyline - ME3 has a lot of substracted things. Wanna know why Vega saluted you and you act as if you know this guy? Get a comic. Wanna know what's that all about batarians sudden hate to humans? Either read few lines in codex or buy Arrival. Wanna know how archeologist scientist girl turned out to be a Shadow Broker? Take it "as is" or buy LToSB. Wanna know who's Kai Leng? Get a novel. Wanna know why Udina is in Council while you were talking to Anderson just few month ago? Feel free to guess, as it was never even mentioned in game. What was going on on your own trial? Use headcanons.

But as for given example with TIM - he is not indoctrinated untill some point of ME3. Though, as with most of things in ME3 we are free to speculate.

He's been indoctrinated for ages, we just covered that. Anyway, that's called having a rich and full universe. Having more games, DLC, novels, and comics is a good thing. You can be cynical and call it money grabbing, or you can love the universe and be happy there's now more to it!

If he was then WHY did he ressurect shepard????
do not make Me look worse than it is

He was basically a sleeper agent at that time. He was indoctinated all along, but only after Shepard deals with the Collector base do the Reapers start to actively use TIM and Cerberus.

TIM was never indoctrinated all along, during ME2 he was normal and only had the blue cybernetic eyes due to exposure to reaper tech when he was younger but managed to resist it.

It was only at the end of ME2 that he became indoctrinated after salvaging the tech from the collector base, exposing himself to more Reaper tech and then implanting his troops to improve their performance before eventually doing it to himself

[Amirit]

isnudo wrote...

Amirit wrote...

I always saw Cerberus in ME3 as a "Fifth column" of the Reapers. Clearly, TIM was indoctrinated sometime right after Collectors. And as we know, Collectors themselves had unlimited resources which they used to buy people or anything and anyone they needed. So does TIM now. And though TIM thinks he is working on the plan of controlling reapers, in fact he is working for them.

So, when we fight Cerberus we are simply still fighting reapers.

Well, I'm sure that was the idea, but I'd say it could have been presented much better. As it is, we get hints as to TIM's being indoctrinated in the conversation with him on Thessia; there are a couple of lines he delivers with just the slightest hint of uncertainty, like he's having to convince himself that he knows what he's doing. Then we see the Human Reaper and the video logs on Chronos Station. Aside from that, we're given no direct evidence that Cerberus command is under the effects of indoctrination. Their moves to thwart the Genophage cure and Krogan/Turian alliance and the other stuff they do can all be taken as actions taken in anticipation of the post-Reaper galaxy, rather than a Reaper-implanted desire to hinder the war effort. But for the majority of the game, there's no evidence given to suggest they're indoctrinated, in fact their work to control the Reapers suggests just the opposite. To me, they felt like an entirely separate faction from the Reapers.

True. Everything I said about Fifth Column fall in place for me only after my first PT. _During_ that first PT every time I run into Cerberus I had that WTF impression and constant "why, TIM why?!" question in my head.

They sure had to do it better. And justifying bad writing is always difficult

[nos_astra]

Wraith 02 wrote...
TIM was never indoctrinated all along, during ME2 he was normal and only had the blue cybernetic eyes due to exposure to reaper tech when he was younger but managed to resist it.

I'm not sure this actually canon but it serves as a nice headcanon. Indoctrination through nanites that create nano-structures in your brain (and other body parts) that respond to Reaper signals. Full indoctrination is one step below husk.

Modifié par klarabella, 02 décembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[Outsider edge]

The TIM situation irked me aswell since it's basically the last "boss-battle"of the game. You don't get too fight the big evil you get a verbal discussion with the headhoncho of the the group that have been the lackeys of the Reapers all along.

Also through the game there are moments that hint too something more concerning Cerberus that are never eleborated on. For example the Salarian traitor that gave Cerberus the oppertunity too attack the STG base. Wouldn't it been nice if it turned out it was the Dalatrass who sold out the STG base too Cerberus just too prevent a Turian-Krogan alliance? Yet you never hear from it again. Same goes with that dying Cerberus soldier in the STG base. It even has it's own cutscene yet doesn't add anything. And there are tons of similar additions that could have provided colour too the whole Cerberus mess but are never expanded on. Just more quick additions too get the writers favourite faction once again involved for no apparent reason.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 02 décembre 2012 - 01:13 .