61 réponses à ce sujet

[Fexelea]

outlaworacle wrote...

You will never be able to use any kind of game toolset of this nature and complexity on a console. At least, not this generation of consoles. Who knows what the future holds. I don't meant to be rude or hostile, but that you would even ask shows that you know very little about how computers work and what is required for game design, even light/programming-free game design like this.

As consoles become more like PCs in the future (a distinct possibility) things like this might be possible. As the industry stands today, mods could wreak irrevocable damage on consoles and I can't see Microsoft or anybody else being especially interested in breaking down this particular wall in a hurry.

Please read the whole thread before making assumptions.
Also, I happen to hold a degree in the subject and I know the console infrastructure VERY well. Mods would not break havoc (lol) on anything: they would need approval and conversion, so some pricing model should be allocated, but it is technically possible.

[Dahelia]

Allan Smith wrote...



I'm sorry that you got the impression that you could use the toolset on a console version of the game. The toolset is designed for use on a PC. It simply in not designed to work on a console. Plugging a keyboard and mouse to your console does not make it a PC.



As was pointed out in some earlier posts, the toolset requires a bunch of files from the game in order to work, and in many cases, the files from the console versions are different than the ones for the PC, and would not work with the toolset, so asking for the PC toolset after buying a console version is akin to asking for a free copy of the PC version of the game after buying a console version.



In studio, the toolset was built to run with dozens and dozens of designers working simultaneously on a centralized, managed database, using a lightmapping server farm, and a sophisticated build process with technical staff with the know how to keep it all up and running. We have spent considerable effort in extracting the toolset from the surrounding support infrastructure so that it can run on a standalone pc so that community members can also enjoy creating new content and modifying content as they desire. It has been a challenge, and we are still tweaking it in order to make it work the way it should on a stand alone pc. Once we get that in better shape, we can focus on other enhancements and improvements. We may do some work in the future to try and facilitate moving user generated content from the PC to other platforms (Some of our users may be bright enough to figure it out on their own too)



The toolset being available for PC only is not an attempt to make you have to buy the game multiple times, or any kind of discrimination against console owners, it is a simple technical reality that it does not run on consoles. The files that you got with the console version are not the same as the ones delivered with the PC version, and I don't even know how they would behave with the toolset. We are willing to work with the community to try and work on porting solutions, however the threat of class action lawsuits is counter productive to working together towards any kind of solution. The fact that this is being bandied about in this thread is causing me to choose my words carefully and consider how helpful I should try to be here (i.e. it is hard to be helpful and constructive while being threatened, knowing that every word will be read and interpreted a thousand times over)

Since you seem so willing to show you actually know more Fexelea...you think you know so much...it could very well ruin your system and your game if I come along and make a bad mod. I've done it to people who use cheats on Pokemon, it is not that hard to corrupt people's files, just a few bad coding lines and you are done for.

[EJ42]

Dahelia wrote...

Since you seem so willing to show you actually know more Fexelea...you think you know so much...it could very well ruin your system and your game if I come along and make a bad mod. I've done it to people who use cheats on Pokemon, it is not that hard to corrupt people's files, just a few bad coding lines and you are done for.

Thank you so much for finding that.  I've grown too weary to bother looking anymore.

[Dahelia]

EJ42 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Since you seem so willing to show you actually know more Fexelea...you think you know so much...it could very well ruin your system and your game if I come along and make a bad mod. I've done it to people who use cheats on Pokemon, it is not that hard to corrupt people's files, just a few bad coding lines and you are done for.

Thank you so much for finding that.  I've grown too weary to bother looking anymore.

Boredom gets the best of you sometimes...I looked in the PS3 technical thingie...forum...to find that.

[Bullets McDeath]

Fexelea wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

You will never be able to use any kind of game toolset of this nature and complexity on a console. At least, not this generation of consoles. Who knows what the future holds. I don't meant to be rude or hostile, but that you would even ask shows that you know very little about how computers work and what is required for game design, even light/programming-free game design like this.

As consoles become more like PCs in the future (a distinct possibility) things like this might be possible. As the industry stands today, mods could wreak irrevocable damage on consoles and I can't see Microsoft or anybody else being especially interested in breaking down this particular wall in a hurry.

Please read the whole thread before making assumptions.
Also, I happen to hold a degree in the subject and I know the console infrastructure VERY well. Mods would not break havoc (lol) on anything: they would need approval and conversion, so some pricing model should be allocated, but it is technically possible.

I said wreak irrevocable damage, not "break havoc". The difference is slight but noteworthy. Mods can often be buggy and there is no standardized QA process for them, which definitely doesn't appeal the console companies. More imporantly, mods often don't play well together and finding workarounds to merge two incompatible mods in order to unbork your game requires a level of resource management and file access that simply isn't available on a console.  Aside from lack of proper interface such as a keyboard and mouse (which could be remedied) if you are as familiar with console architecture as you claim you should know they were not designed for this kind of computing at all. They are hardly ideal machines for such an endeavor. Furthermore, modding often requires secondary applications like Blender, not possible to run on consoles. This isn't just in Bioware's court, Microsoft, Sony and/or Nintendo would have to make some drastic and dynamic changes to their business models, their online services and possibly even the consolse themselves. That's why I don't think you're likely to see it happen with this generation of machines. I'm not saying it's a BAD idea, but close to impossible as things stand. The other thread's idea of allowing owners of the console game to download the toolset for the PC is far more realistic, but I think is tricky for Bioware from a business perspective as well.

Again, not trying to start a flame war, but if you have a computer science degree or any experience programming... or even modding, honestly... you should already know all of this.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 12 janvier 2010 - 02:53 .

[EJ42]

Actually, the situation may not be quite as dire as I originally thought for you...

http://social.biowar...325962/2#346945

Still...Hell has a long way to go before we can expect to see any snow.

[EJ42]

Nevermind...

This looks pretty cut-and-dried:

http://social.biowar...568368/6#595046

[Fexelea]

Come on people PLEASE read the posts before! I never asked for the toolset to work on the console.



Outlaworacle: You have misunderstood my postings, please re-read from the start.



And Dahelia I am by no means "trying to show I know more". I am simply stating a fact, from the start of this thread:

*Bioware was looking into allowing mods on PS3, this was reported on.

*The technical aspects ARE possible, but the system will not be the same as the current one.

*Any mods would have to undergo an approval/moderating process. I assume that is the mayor roadblock and I have, numerous times now and in 2 different threads, said that I understand the distribution would be done by either Bioware or EA therefore the end user would be charged: this would still, in my opinion, not discourage modders since they are not the ones being charged. I know it would not discourage me, and I would even pay extra to meet the requirements if I knew the content I create could make its way to the platform of my choosing.



EJ42, thanks for finding that. All I am trying to do here is get a response from Bioware regarding where they stand in the process. If Sony is blocking them then I will pester Sony instead. If they deem it is a financial impossibility then I want to know about it. If they come to the conclusion that it is technically impossible I certainly want to know what makes them think so. That's all.

[EJ42]

Yeah, well all they've said at the latest is just "the toolset will not produce content that works on consoles."

That looked pretty final, but it didn't really give any of the "whys" that you're probably looking for. I can only speculate, which isn't really useful to you.

[Fexelea]

Yes speculation isn't really gonna take us anywhere... However brainstorming can help encourage Bioware to "work with the community" as they claimed in the linked post.

Regardless, I shall keep asking for reasons until my Qs are As lols.

[Elanareon]

If you read the long quote, the files on the consoles is different from the PC versions. I think that says it all. If a modder made a mod on the PC with the current toolset, it won't run on consoles because they use different files and database. So for example the modder made a file *.something for the mod it won;t be read by the console because the equivalent file on console is *.something2 and doesn't know how to read *.something. Well i think it works that way... lol

[Stanley Woo]

You should probably join this discussion regarding the possibility of a toolset for console players. Thank you.

ENd of line.