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Bioware, you've been beaten at your own game!


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#1
Sejborg

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First off. I'm not sure where this post fits in, but since this has to do with gameplay, I think this is the right place.

For me: the core mechanics that make Biowares games stand out from the crowd, is the storytelling, characters and choices that makes me think. Bioware have been the go to place for me, because I find such things interesting in the games I play, and you at Bioware have simply been by far the best at this. But not anymore...

Bioware, you've been beaten at your own game! By Telltale Games: The Walking Dead.

Sure. The Walking Dead only have pretty much one ending. But what is even more interesting than lots of different ending cinematics, is how the journey till the end will feel very different due to how you behave as a character while you play. The choices you make and the things you say (or keep hidden), will decide how your companions feels about you.

In The Walking Dead the companions will remember what you say and do, and they will bring it up. Either for good or for worse. How you treat the companions, will not just be transferred to some renegade/paragon or rivalry/friendship bar. No, these decissions will have an impact on many conversations and how different things will play out. From this emerges a whole new level of belieavability to the characters. They feel that more real, because they remember what you say and do. They remember what you make them do, and the things they do will transform their personality. 

I will use an example from the recently released Mass Effect 3: Omega DLC, to show how Bioware could have done something similar, so stop reading if you don't want to be spoiled. 

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In the Omega DLC It is shown that Nyreen is scared of these new monster reapers. At one point Aria decides to give her some advice. This could have been done by Shepard instead:

Advice A) "Man up Nyreen and get in there! Don't be a chicken or you will regret it!"

Advice B) "Don't worry about it. Just stay back and out of the way. I can handle these monsters"

Result of advice A) the end she has in the DLC already. 

Result of advice B) Nyreen is now unable to fight these monsters. She is so scared she is practically fleeing during gameplay when these new monsters show up. This would also result in her not dieing later on, because she would simply choke up and hide, while the monsters kills the people in front of Afterlife. She survives. But at what price? She is now devastated and willingly succumbs to Aria's rule.

Advice A and B both results in the same ending - Aria having no competition for the rule of Omega. Choosing who is the new ruler of Omega could be interesting. Another interesting thing is to have an impact on characters. Did Shepards advice make a martyr or a traumatized coward out of Nyreen? Of course, this is just one (extreme) example of how you could give the player an impact on the companions story.


TL;DR
Telltale Games have given player choice a more interesting impact by focusing more on how the characters you interact with feels about you, and how you shape them, rather than where the game leaves off. My best advice for Bioware. Play The Walking Dead, and be inspired.

#2
Drayce333

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Bioware don't care about that now. All about that 3rd person shooter action and multiplayer and whatever else makes them money.

#3
Redbelle

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I think BW started a trend, and now others are taking up the concept of narrative decision making leading to multiple consequence's.

This however is a good thing. If ME4 doesn't pan out in a similar vein, I can look to other developers for that video game experience BW started in ME1, developed in ME2, then retreated from in ME3.

Shame telltale haven't added an RPG element to it in the vein of ME......... <hint hint BW. Don't leave a consumer hanging>.

#4
HTTP 404

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I agree, I thought the walking dead is a great game to play.

But I have to say that bioware did a pretty good job at making choices possible much less transferable to subsequent sequels. No one has ever done it before they did it.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 01 décembre 2012 - 02:14 .


#5
Althix

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Drayce333 wrote...

Bioware don't care about that now. All about that 3rd person shooter action and multiplayer and whatever else makes them money.

hmm do you really think that MP gives Bioware/EA money?

#6
JeffZero

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It uh, does.

#7
Althix

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hmmm...
I am making about 300-320k credits in hour farming gold.
1600 bioware points pack cost you about 20 i think dollars? Or less? let say 15$.
99k spectre pack cost you 240 bioware points, so you can afford 6 packs for 15$.
In credits it's 594k credits which means you need 2 hours playing Gold to get that amount of money.
Taking into account that, i have common, uncommon and rare cards maxed, i need a least 1kk-1,5kk to have a chance to get single random ultra rare card. In real money it's about 30$.

So let me get this straight, are you telling me that mentally healthy people buying spectre packs for real money for coop only pve just for fun game mode? I mean how stupid the one should be to do that?

but on the other hand render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 01 décembre 2012 - 04:23 .


#8
Hathur

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secretsandlies wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Bioware don't care about that now. All about that 3rd person shooter action and multiplayer and whatever else makes them money.

hmm do you really think that MP gives Bioware/EA money?


Tragically it does... no thanks to the dumb dumbs who spent real money in multiplayer to buy gear :pinched:  .. reinforces it as a business practice which means we'll only see more of it in future games .. possibly (though not assuredly) at the expense of single player experiences.

The constant release of additional multiplayer content is not out of Bioware's good graces .. it's because it's very profitable (extremely cheap to make, high profit).

#9
TheImmortalBeaver

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I've played a little bit of The Walking Dead (never finished due to a lovely RROD), and I would agree that it's excellent. However, I really do think that this is comparing apples and oranges. While the basic story interaction structure (via dialogue and choices) may be somewhat similar, Telltale and BioWare approach storytelling in fairly different ways. While I would agree that Mass Effect 3 was a step back in some aspects (ME2 is my favorite), it was still a phenomenal game. The Walking Dead being a good game doesn't make ME3 worse, and there's no reason to count BioWare out of the story-focused games genre just yet.

Quick Edit: For Justice and Getting Rid of A Few Missing Words (I should probably go to bed and stop trying to write at 1 AM).

Modifié par Misterpinky0, 01 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .


#10
Redbelle

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secretsandlies wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Bioware don't care about that now. All about that 3rd person shooter action and multiplayer and whatever else makes them money.

hmm do you really think that MP gives Bioware/EA money?


money = BW points/MS points = packs.

Its a trickle, but it builds up. I just can't quantify the flow. But the potential is there and the number of players in MP makes it a likely occurance.

@MisterPinky

I don't count BW out just yet. It's too early and tbh I only spotted TWD a day ago. I watched it on YouTube and saw how the game engine works as well as the artistic direction.

It's no ME. But then, it's gameplay of getting the player to choose and carrying those consequences forward is very BW.

I still believe that BW, through ME, set a trend that they have been teasing us with through KOTOR and DA:O. ME pretty much took decision/consequence based narrative and fully controllabe RPG based avaters, and spliced them together somewhere in a secret laboratory........... Probably the same place they make Top Gear Stig's.......... I have also seen similar gameplay done poorly in the past by other AAA titles like Final Fantasy XIII-2.

But now I've seen TWD I know that there is another developer who can do what BW does wrapped up and delivered to the players in a form that is very desirable. I'm going to look into TWD more and see if it's downloadable or shelf copy stuff.

The point is, BW need's to innovate their ME product. That step back I talked about and another forumite noticed? It meant that, as a whole, despite Rannoch and Tchunka, I came away unsatisfied. I wish I hadn't, I know BW can satisfy it's gamers. They done it through most of their back catalogue. But if ME3 is a sign of leaning more towards shooting as opposed to the hacking, item modding, etc etc element's of, not only ME1 and 2, but most of their produced catalogue of games, then I'm doubly sad to see BW's vision of gaming diminish to shooting things in the face with a plot doesn't quite connect all the dots.

Hideo Kojima is someone I keep referencing in my posts about how his company innovate like madmen. One game mechanic is thrashed apart to see how it works, then it is applied in different context's to create an utterly new way to manipulate the in game enviroment. They keep blank school books in their drawers so if they suddenly have a flash of inspiration they can capture that idea before it fades.

I see ME4 as a chance to innovate the ME gameplay. To bring it to another level. But that raising it to another level should be based on the height's of ME2, not ME3. ME3 turned into an overglorified shooter with an end game I've been waiting ages to get to experience. ME2 was an action RPG with a balance of both and easier interfaces. ME2 allowed you to do more than shoot things. ME3 did not.

Here's to hoping that ME4 bring's back the RPG game interaction mechanics. Cause some of us enjoy the rewards of opening locked doors.

Modifié par Redbelle, 01 décembre 2012 - 10:26 .


#11
GargamelLeNoir

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Sejborg that would have been a great idea!

#12
Spiritwolf1

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I dont think N yreen is dead, I think she did that to "disappear" once again... but thats just me, she fooled Aria once...

#13
Redbelle

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Spiritwolf1 wrote...

I dont think N yreen is dead, I think she did that to "disappear" once again... but thats just me, she fooled Aria once...


Funnily enough I made a thread that suggested the same thing, as well as bring her back as a squad mate in the ME4 sequel, assuming it is a sequel.

#14
LtAdams2247 Origin

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Sejborg wrote...
My best advice for Bioware. Play The Walking Dead, and be inspired.


That's actually good advice ;-)

#15
Guest_Rubios_*

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>The Walking Dead
>Videogames

Pick one.

Modifié par Rubios, 01 décembre 2012 - 08:16 .


#16
LessrOf2Weevils

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.