83 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackrising]

mopotter wrote...

Just putting what I put on the poll:

For me, I find the story a lot more interesting when there are characters who don't want to romance one of my video selves but do want to romance another. I loved Sam and Steve in ME3.

Maybe if I only played one or two games it would work, but I usually play a lot more than one and I enjoy the idea that there are some characters that require I play a guy in order to see the romance or characters that are only interested in my female self. I actually enjoy having one of them say sorry, your not my type. i have another character around the corner who will be their type.

That's all good and well, but some people just don't want to play a character of a certain gender.

And what you want can be achieved without bringing gender into it. Characters could reject you based on other things. Cullen may not be willing to be romanced by a mage after what he went through. Cassandra may not be willing to trust someone who is ruthless or supports blood magic. Another character may only be interested in someone who will do everything to achieve their goals, no matter the cost. You see, plenty of options that still allow gaymers to romance whoever they want with the character they can most identify with.

[mopotter]

Blackrising wrote...

Again? Really?



Since people are so adamant about not having all characters be available to either gender, Bioware should just include 2 gay and 2 bi romance options. I'd REALLY like to see what people will say when they suddenly only have one straight option.

My choice would be 10 total.  (ME universe had something around 14-15 total)   So I would love to see 2 gay, 2 bi, 2 straight; then 2 bi who is only interested in a hero and 2 bi who is only interested in an evil character.  

I'd probably never romance the evil ones, but it would be a nice addition.  In fact as long as I'm wishing, I'd like to see the romance option leave or be killed for attacking me if they are not alined with my character.  

[Rixatrix]

Atalanta wrote...
No, you're thinking "romanceable by either gender protagonist," not bisexual. You'd have no idea that they were interested in both genders unless you metagame.

This.

As much as I love BW characters, they are not real people with a standalone existence.  The "herosexual" characters, who fall for whichever gender the protagonist is, should not be viewed standalone like real people (that is, considering all genders and sexual preferences of a potential protagonist) but rather dependent like the fictional characters they are, based on your specific hero's story.

Some characters, obviously, will have specific sexual preferences as part of their characterization, such as Isabela or Zevran, but these should be viewed differently from the "herosexual" LIs.

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 30 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[draken-heart]

I voted no, I would not mind, but would prefer they do an exclusive S/S romance option for both genders.

[esper]

mopotter wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Again? Really?



Since people are so adamant about not having all characters be available to either gender, Bioware should just include 2 gay and 2 bi romance options. I'd REALLY like to see what people will say when they suddenly only have one straight option.

My choice would be 10 total.  (ME universe had something around 14-15 total)   So I would love to see 2 gay, 2 bi, 2 straight; then 2 bi who is only interested in a hero and 2 bi who is only interested in an evil character.  

I'd probably never romance the evil ones, but it would be a nice addition.  In fact as long as I'm wishing, I'd like to see the romance option leave or be killed for attacking me if they are not alined with my character.  

Aligements does not exist in dragon age, so that last one is simply not possible.

Modifié par esper, 30 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[Navasha]

I put yes, because you can never go wrong with more options. I certainly don't want my character railroaded into a romance with an unlikeable character just because they are the only one available.

For instance, in DA2 I couldn't stand the personalities of Moody and Broody. Hence, there were no actual male love interests in the game for me. Varric unfortunately wasn't an option.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

mopotter wrote...

Just putting what I put on the poll:

For me, I find the story a lot more interesting when there are characters who don't want to romance one of my video selves but do want to romance another. I loved Sam and Steve in ME3.

Maybe if I only played one or two games it would work, but I usually play a lot more than one and I enjoy the idea that there are some characters that require I play a guy in order to see the romance or characters that are only interested in my female self. I actually enjoy having one of them say sorry, your not my type. i have another character around the corner who will be their type.

I think these kinds of restrictions are interesting but I'd rather they not be tied to gender. For example, if Fenris could be interested in a PC unless they were a mage, or Anders would break off a romance with someone who put points in the Templar spec. Things like that.

Its more interesting in a character development sense than "so and so isn't into dudes," and I'd rather options be be restricted/available based on how you choose to play the game class and choice-wise instead of gender which, for me, is a decision based solely on which voice actor I prefer.

BSN likes to assume there is some inherent "meaning" in any given sexuality that is vital to character development, but all it means is what kinds of genitals that character likes to have near theirs, and that's not especially interesting information.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[Rixatrix]

Pseudocognition wrote...
I think these kinds of restrictions are interesting but I'd rather they not be tied to gender. For example, if Fenris could be interested in a PC unless they were a mage, or Anders would break off a romance with someone who put points in the Templar spec. Things like that.

This is a good idea.  I've always thought it kind of strange when a LI is extremely opposed to something, and yet, ignores that in the protagonist...

[Blackrising]

esper wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Again? Really?



Since people are so adamant about not having all characters be available to either gender, Bioware should just include 2 gay and 2 bi romance options. I'd REALLY like to see what people will say when they suddenly only have one straight option.

My choice would be 10 total.  (ME universe had something around 14-15 total)   So I would love to see 2 gay, 2 bi, 2 straight; then 2 bi who is only interested in a hero and 2 bi who is only interested in an evil character.  

I'd probably never romance the evil ones, but it would be a nice addition.  In fact as long as I'm wishing, I'd like to see the romance option leave or be killed for attacking me if they are not alined with my character.  

Aligements does not exist in dragon age, so that last one is simply not possible.

Nevermind that it's hard to compare DA and ME in that respect. ME was a trilogy with the same main character for every game, DA games have a new PC every time. So anything more than 4 LIs is pretty much out of the question.

[Fiacre]

mopotter wrote...

Just putting what I put on the poll:

For me, I find the story a lot more interesting when there are characters who don't want to romance one of my video selves but do want to romance another. I loved Sam and Steve in ME3.

Maybe if I only played one or two games it would work, but I usually play a lot more than one and I enjoy the idea that there are some characters that require I play a guy in order to see the romance or characters that are only interested in my female self. I actually enjoy having one of them say sorry, your not my type. i have another character around the corner who will be their type.

Not trying to say you're wrong or anything, I'm just quoting you because you express one reason I can truly respect for not wanting all bi/herosexual LIs rather well -- but the bolded is the one most important reason why I prefer bisexual/herosexual LIs over the other systems.

I don't want to have to play a different sex to romance a particular character. I'm frequently not comfortable doing so. There's a reason why I usually choose the male characters in RPGs -- I'm simply more comfortable with them. I don't have any problem playing a püredefined femlae character, bt in an RPG? there's a reason why the only female Hawke on my hard drive is my brothers, or why I have 9 different Fable 2 files and only a single fem!Sparrow, and 6 different F3 files without a single Princess.

I adore Morrigan, but if she were a female only option, there's a good chance I'd have never seen her romance (at least until I switched to PC). The same goes for Fenris, or Merrill, or Zevran. If Alistair's and Morrigan's avalaibilizty was switched, I'd miss out on my favorurite romance in favour of my least favourite. If I could only romance opposite gender characters in DA2, or anders had been the bi option whilefenris was straight, I'd have missed out on my two very fun playthroughs were I romanced him.

I get where you're coming from, and as I said, I can respct that argument, but it's really, really not for everyone, and I'm glad Bioware goes the route that gives the player the most options without forcing them to do anything.

[Atalanta]

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...
This.

As much as I love BW characters, they are not real people with a standalone existence.  The "herosexual" characters, who fall for whichever gender the protagonist is, should not be viewed standalone like real people (that is, considering all genders and sexual preferences of a potential protagonist) but rather dependent like the fictional characters they are, based on your specific hero's story.

Some characters, obviously, will have specific sexual preferences as part of their characterization, such as Isabela or Zevran, but these should be viewed differently from the "herosexual" LIs.

Thanks, you are much more eloquent than I am.

I should just stay out of these threads. Even though I'm gay and my partner of seven years identifies as bisexual, I probably come off as a raging homophobe most of the time. Oh well.

[Insomniak]

@Fiacre - Admittedly, my wording was rather poor in retrospect.

My overall point is this: I don't give a damn how many characters of any given sexual orientation are included in the game. What I want are fully fleshed out characters that I feel deep emotional connections too (the exact natures of which can range from admiration to repulsed). Interactions with them should flow naturally (like they would in real life) - not feel awkward or forced because an extremist group of fans made so many demands about how they think a given LI(s) should be. And, ultimately, I trust the writers at Bioware to do this. That's what I meant by "refusing to compromise the integrity of character development."

EDIT: Which really has nothing to do with the thread I guess /endrant

Modifié par javajedi217, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Battlebloodmage]

javajedi217 wrote...

@Fiacre - Admittedly, my wording was rather poor in retrospect.

My overall point is this: I don't give a damn how many characters of any given sexual orientation are included in the game. What I want are fully fleshed out characters that I feel deep emotional connections too (the exact natures of which can range from admiration to repulsed). Interactions with them should flow naturally (like they would in real life) - not feel awkward or forced because an extremist group of fans made so many demands about how they think a given LI(s) should be. And, ultimately, I trust the writers at Bioware to do this. That's what I meant by "refusing to compromise the integrity of character development."

Just out of curiosity, who are these extremists you're referring to?

[mopotter]

Blackrising wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Just putting what I put on the poll:

For me, I find the story a lot more interesting when there are characters who don't want to romance one of my video selves but do want to romance another. I loved Sam and Steve in ME3.

Maybe if I only played one or two games it would work, but I usually play a lot more than one and I enjoy the idea that there are some characters that require I play a guy in order to see the romance or characters that are only interested in my female self. I actually enjoy having one of them say sorry, your not my type. i have another character around the corner who will be their type.

That's all good and well, but some people just don't want to play a character of a certain gender.

And what you want can be achieved without bringing gender into it. Characters could reject you based on other things. Cullen may not be willing to be romanced by a mage after what he went through. Cassandra may not be willing to trust someone who is ruthless or supports blood magic. Another character may only be interested in someone who will do everything to achieve their goals, no matter the cost. You see, plenty of options that still allow gaymers to romance whoever they want with the character they can most identify with.

I like the suggestions with Cassandra and Cullen, I do hope that they add something like this, though there will then be people complaining that they don't like fighters and want Cullen to romance their mage or Cassandra for their blood mage, so really it's a no win situation.

As we are saying some people just don't want to play a character of certain gender, I know I will not play a male if there is no reason to and I find this limits the number of times I play, and pretty much this seems to be a wish list so that's mine.  A variety of choices among straight, gay, bi, good and evil.  I don't expect BW to grant my wishes, but there they are.  i want a reason to play a guy and really, the romance options are the only reason I'd bother.  

[XCelfa]

GlaberN7 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

GlaberN7 wrote...

No, and there should be more than four.

Yes, and there should be between two and four.

We're gonna get along very well you and I.

[Redbelle]

If BW were to set DA3 in a swinging 60's time setting then yes. All player NPC's shoild be bisexual. That way, if a character is not bisexual........... We immediately know they are evil and may be put to the sword.

Or we could, you know, stop judging BW NPC's on whether they like clams or osysters..... or both. Cause at the end of the day, when a developer creates a character, that character is not automatically sexualised. He or she has a purpose within the story to be something other than a romp under the traveling blankets within earshot of the hairy dwarf who breath's to loud.

[Insomniak]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Just out of curiosity, who are these extremists you're referring to?

Hahaha. I'm not going to point fingers... but they're not too hard to spot on these forums.

Directly addressing said extremists: You know who you are.

Redbelle wrote...

Or we could, you know, stop judging BW NPC's on whether they like clams or osysters..... or both. Cause at the end of the day, when a developer creates a character, that character is not automatically sexualised. He or she has a purpose within the story to be something other than a romp under the traveling blankets within earshot of the hairy dwarf who breath's to loud.

Thank you! That is exactly what I have been trying to say.

Modifié par javajedi217, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[XCelfa]

Redbelle wrote...

If BW were to set DA3 in a swinging 60's time setting then yes. All player NPC's shoild be bisexual. That way, if a character is not bisexual........... We immediately know they are evil and may be put to the sword.

Or we could, you know, stop judging BW NPC's on whether they like clams or osysters..... or both. Cause at the end of the day, when a developer creates a character, that character is not automatically sexualised. He or she has a purpose within the story to be something other than a romp under the traveling blankets within earshot of the hairy dwarf who breath's to loud.

You do realize that sexual orientation is largely an invention of modernity? 

[mopotter]

Blackrising wrote...

esper wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Again? Really?



Since people are so adamant about not having all characters be available to either gender, Bioware should just include 2 gay and 2 bi romance options. I'd REALLY like to see what people will say when they suddenly only have one straight option.

My choice would be 10 total.  (ME universe had something around 14-15 total)   So I would love to see 2 gay, 2 bi, 2 straight; then 2 bi who is only interested in a hero and 2 bi who is only interested in an evil character.  

I'd probably never romance the evil ones, but it would be a nice addition.  In fact as long as I'm wishing, I'd like to see the romance option leave or be killed for attacking me if they are not alined with my character.  

Aligements does not exist in dragon age, so that last one is simply not possible.

Nevermind that it's hard to compare DA and ME in that respect. ME was a trilogy with the same main character for every game, DA games have a new PC every time. So anything more than 4 LIs is pretty much out of the question.

This is true.  I tend to forget it was a 3 part series.    

While I would really like different romance options by sexual preferences, because like I said above, I won't bother playing a male if my Female can romance everyone,  If the characters are interesting, well developed and distinct from each other with nothing that makes me think the romance is forced I will survive playing my females.  But my personal dream would still be 6 and if they can't do good/evil then a mage lover and a mage hater would work.

[Saibh]

I just think having four companions companions be romanceable out of a party of only six is way too much. I like eight companions and 3-4 love interests. As for whether they should be exclusive based on gender...

I generally feel like there should be an emphasis placed on what the character is willing to do in a romance at all. An elf unwilling to romance a human or a mage unwilling to romance a templar, for instance. Or perhaps more realistically, an antagonistic PC is probably not a good match for the sweet girl-next-door. I understand one can write a romance where the girl next door can feel positively on the antagonistic guy for valid reasons, but I'm not sure if that should always be the case.

Bisexuality is one of the least obtrusive ways BioWare has made characters conform for romance reasons, but it is still one of them. Rather than being treated as an individual, companions are often seen and treated as extensions of the PC's will. Anders, the most anti-templar character in the game, can be convinced to turn against the mages in the end because of the PC. There is this massive conceit the player has in feeling like they are in control of their party and deserve that control (the few instances in which a companion might rebel are often treated as horrific betrayals), and unfortunately BioWare feeds right into it.

I would prefer if characters would stop being made to constantly conform to the player's whims to address their ego. In this sense, it would be nice if there were characters exclusive to any facet of the PC, for pretty much any reason. But as I said earlier, bisexuality is one of the less obtrusive, and more externally important ways, a character is made to appeal to the greatest amount of people, so I'd rather something else give.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Xewaka]

Pseudocognition wrote...

mopotter wrote...
Just putting what I put on the poll:
For me, I find the story a lot more interesting when there are characters who don't want to romance one of my video selves but do want to romance another. I loved Sam and Steve in ME3.
Maybe if I only played one or two games it would work, but I usually play a lot more than one and I enjoy the idea that there are some characters that require I play a guy in order to see the romance or characters that are only interested in my female self. I actually enjoy having one of them say sorry, your not my type. i have another character around the corner who will be their type.

I think these kinds of restrictions are interesting but I'd rather they not be tied to gender. For example, if Fenris could be interested in a PC unless they were a mage, or Anders would break off a romance with someone who put points in the Templar spec. Things like that.
Its more interesting in a character development sense than "so and so isn't into dudes," and I'd rather options be be restricted/available based on how you choose to play the game class and choice-wise instead of gender which, for me, is a decision based solely on which voice actor I prefer.
BSN likes to assume there is some inherent "meaning" in any given sexuality that is vital to character development, but all it means is what kinds of genitals that character likes to have near theirs, and that's not especially interesting information.

While I find this conceptually interesting, we are running into the same issue here: We're blocking the player out of content due to character generation choices. I like good characterization as much as the next dude, but there are concessions to gameplay that must be made. Allowing choices regardless of character generation is one of them.

XCelfa wrote...
You do realize that sexual orientation is largely an invention of modernity?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA No.

Modifié par Xewaka, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[XCelfa]

Saibh wrote...

I just think having four companions companions be romanceable out of a party of only six is way too much. I like eight companions and 3-4 love interests. As for whether they should be exclusive based on gender...

I generally feel like there should be an emphasis placed on what the character is willing to do in a romance at all. An elf unwilling to romance a human or a mage unwilling to romance a templar, for instance. Or perhaps more realistically, an antagonistic PC is probably not a good match for the sweet girl-next-door. I understand one can write a romance where the girl next door can feel positively on the antagonistic guy for valid reasons, but I'm not sure if that should always be the case.

Bisexuality is one of the least obtrusive ways BioWare has made characters conform for romance reasons, but it is still one of them. Rather than being treated as an individual, companions are often seen and treated as extensions of the PC's will. Anders, the most anti-templar character in the game, can be convinced to turn against the mages in the end because of the PC. There is this massive conceit the player has in feeling like they are in control of their party and deserve that control (the few instances in which a companion might rebel are often treated as horrific betrayals), and unfortunately BioWare feeds right into it.

I would prefer if characters would stop being made to constantly conform to the player's whims to address their ego. In this sense, it would be nice if there were characters exclusive to any facet of the PC, for pretty much any reason. But as I said earlier, bisexuality is one of the less obtrusive, and more externally important ways, a character is made to appeal to the greatest amount of people, so I'd rather something else give.

I don't know if I have that same qualm. If you recall in DA:O you could conscript Loghain into the party and Alistair would flip absolute cheesewheels. You also cannot convince Fenris to trust mages and abandon his revenge, you cannot convince Anders to not blow up the Chantry, you cannot convince Merrill to leave the eluvian alone or denounce blood magic, you can't keep Isabela from running off with the tome, etc.

I laud Bioware's individualization and their companions' strength of character. If we have any bone to pick about followers, it's definitely not there. Just my opinion, of course.

[Iakus]

mopotter wrote...

My choice would be 10 total.  (ME universe had something around 14-15 total)   So I would love to see 2 gay, 2 bi, 2 straight; then 2 bi who is only interested in a hero and 2 bi who is only interested in an evil character.  

I'd probably never romance the evil ones, but it would be a nice addition.  In fact as long as I'm wishing, I'd like to see the romance option leave or be killed for attacking me if they are not alined with my character.  

I like 2/2/2.  1 male and one female each.  Everyone has four options, 2 M/F and 2 S/S.  And there isn't 100% overlap.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Xewaka wrote...

While I find this conceptually interesting, we are running into the same issue here: We're blocking the player out of content due to character generation choices. I like good characterization as much as the next dude, but there are concessions to gameplay that must be made. Allowing choices regardless of character generation is one of them.

I am OK with that, since romances are optional anyway.

I just think any restrictions on them would be better served as roleplaying opportunities and character development for the LI if it wasn't just based the PC's sex.

I understand if some/most people think your character's sex IS part of the roleplaying experience, but for me it's just a superficial thing. The character's sex isn't a choice the character makes, it's a choice I make as the player, to put it another way, and as I said, for me, ultimately based on what voice actor I want to listen to. (boulton for the win!) And I'd rather LIs be interested or not interested in that character based on what the character does, not what I want to stare at/listen to for 60 hours.

Hopefully that makes sense?

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:43 .