112 réponses à ce sujet

[LambChowder]

During the plague if you use discretion and go into the hospice alone like a thinking, rational person, instead of battling a bunch of Tevinter guards (WHO GIVE NO INDICATION OF EVER HAVING ANY ILL WILL FOR YOU UP TO THIS POINT) instead of slaughtering them in the streets and endangering the innocents for no reason, you're expected to go inside and battle 5 or 6 of them alone. Obviously this isn't something that would come easily to a Rogue, no matter what, unless he laid about ten thousand traps around the feet of every potential enemy and came in with a full loadout of poisons. As if the guards would let me load traps all over the places where htey presumably walk back and fourth regularly. Instead I'm left with the prospect of winning a fight against a bunch of level scaling warriors that could chain stun me for ten years in a row if I had infinite health. Not terribly well thought of them is it.

[thegreateski]

or you could try a different method of entering the hospice.

[Deltago Lavista]

You know what else is stupid, posting a spoiler in the no spoiler forum.

[LambChowder]

oh god as if that would spoil anything for anyone

[LambChowder]

What the hell you can't even close your own topics? What kind of forum is this? What a day

[NoobusExtremus]

Great...that's it. Anyone wanna buy a slightly used game? It's been ruined for me.

[Eurypterid]

Moving to spoilers forum.

[TheGreenLion]

The problem is people who don't want to register the game don't get to post in the *spoiler warning* areas, so they obviously will break the rules and ruin pieces of the game for everyone else cause they don't want to register or attained a borrowed or illegal copy.

[Kepha]

Try going around to the back door. You still have to fight the guys inside, and the guys out front when you leave, but you get your whole party.

[KCat]

Must've missed this part:

like a thinking, rational person, instead of battling a bunch of Tevinter guards (WHO GIVE NO INDICATION OF EVER HAVING ANY ILL WILL FOR YOU UP TO THIS POINT)

The problem is that most single-character builds would need to meta-game a battle like that. You have 5 or so non-wimpy enemies ganging up on you, so you need a character with some method of effective crowd control, or one that can absorb (and dish out) damage. That's the very essence of meta-gaming.. building a character a specific way because you'll need them that way to win, or making choices because that makes the area easier.. as opposed to role-playing your character and doing what would be sensible to them in-game.



I had to reload with my mage (on Easy!) several times because he went in alone, not thinking he'd encounter such a force, and not having any forewarning of such a battle. I eventually did win without cheating (as long as you count potion spamming as fair game), and it was exhilarating, but it still felt like a rather unfair encounter.

[Kepha]

Again, that is why you can go around to the back door, bribe or kill the single guard there, and enter with your whole party through the back.



If you want to try and do the 5 against 1 fight you can, but the game offers another way out. And really what sensible character would want to walk alone into a building that people have been disappearing from

[WillieStyle]

By that point in the game you really should be able to solo 5 non-elite mobs. I don't understand the meta-gaming argument. The skills that are useful for killing these mobs (dual-weapon sweep, whirlwind, poisons, riposte, pinpoint strikes, combat stealth, feast of the fallen etc.) are also useful in most other fights in the game solo or otherwise.



I know I compain a lot about how Bioware chose to balance the game, but I feel a great deal of sympathy for them when I consider that on the one hand there are people soloing the game on nightmare, on the other hand there are folks complaining that soloing 5 nonelite warriors (the easiest class to kill) is too hard on easy.

[KCat]

Again, that is why you can go around to the back door, bribe or kill the single guard there, and enter with your whole party through the back.

Why would you think to do that without meta-gaming? Having to meta-game to survive is indicative of poor design in an RPG.

[Kerad Kralc]

Why name the thread "The hospice part is really stupidly designed"? Why not "I'm having a hard time with the hospice part"? Oh I know, the devs are supposed to know exactly what your characters' skills, talents, attributes are, and what your equipment is, and they are suppose to be able to look into the future when they are designing the game and know how you are going to play it....As always, it's the game designers' fault, not the players'....

[Demonic Spoon]

Why would you think to do that without meta-gaming? Having to meta-game to survive is indicative of poor design in an RPG.

If you talk to that elf (forget her name) who protests what they're doing, she tells you that there's an entrance around the back which only has one guard.

I actually think it's pretty well-done. Unless you have great persuasion skills, you need to drop 12 gold to go inside to see what's going on without massacring a bunch of people for dubious reasoning. Is it easy or convenient? Hell no, but playing a nice/good character isn't about having easy solutions to everything.

Modifié par Demonic Spoon, 05 janvier 2010 - 04:58 .

[Sarethus]

KCat wrote...

Again, that is why you can go around to the back door, bribe or kill the single guard there, and enter with your whole party through the back.

Why would you think to do that without meta-gaming? Having to meta-game to survive is indicative of poor design in an RPG.

I would think to do the following completely without meta-gaming:

1) Gee this guy seems awfully eager to get me in there when I haven't been that sick.
2) Teventir mages, the guys who used to practice blood magic and slavery. Not the best reputation.
3) People have entered that place and not been seen again...DUN DUN DUN....
4) People believe that something suspicious is going on inside that place, they might be paranoid or they might be right...

Keeping all of the above in mind why the heck would I enter that place through the front door unless I was absolutely certain I could handle anything that came my way? If I was a rogue particularly I would look for a back way in to the building because that's what rogues do in general.

[WillieStyle]

KCat wrote...

Again, that is why you can go around to the back door, bribe or kill the single guard there, and enter with your whole party through the back.

Why would you think to do that without meta-gaming? Having to meta-game to survive is indicative of poor design in an RPG.

Oh for crying out loud! There are literarily tens of thousands of people who have soloed that fight on every difficulty level in the game without metagaming.  It's not even a particularly memorable fight difficulty wise.

If you're having trouble with the fight, tell us what skill,talents you have and we'll give you pointers on how to deal with it.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Suspicious people who attack you first? Nah, you should let them kill you, or else it would be meta-gaming!

[SinYang]

The OP didnt read Dragon age was a party based game... okay I guess it was poorly designed

[AtreiyaN7]

You don't really have to go into the hospice anyway...you could go straight to the apartments and avoid the hospice completely, so...problem solved? And yes, for anyone without CC I can agree that it would be difficult (could temporarily set it to easy as well though).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 05 janvier 2010 - 06:13 .

[KCat]

Sarethus wrote...

I would think to do the following completely without meta-gaming:

1) Gee this guy seems awfully eager to get me in there when I haven't been that sick.

They're screening people who've come down with a plague which, if you inquiry, is closely linked with the darkspawn taint. And (surprise!) you're tainted. You don't feel sick because you've "mastered" the taint, but it's still the same thing, and not indicative that they mean ill-will. If anything, that makes them seem less guilty about trying to push me in as they're doing what they're supposed to.

2) Teventir mages, the guys who used to practice blood magic and slavery. Not the best reputation.

But still there with full permission (from Loghain himself, but you don't know that). They may not be 100% trust-worthy, but not something to effectively murder them over.

3) People have entered that place and not been seen again...DUN DUN DUN....

That's.. exactly what quarantines are designed to do. Separate the sick from the non-sick, to best prevent the spread of the disease. You'd have had a better argument with how some of the people that go in don't appear to be sick, but that can still be attributed to some people not showing symptoms yet (as the mages say it can take longer to show up for some people).

4) People believe that something suspicious is going on inside that place, they might be paranoid or they might be right...

Which of course means there's a 5-on-1 fight waiting on the other side with no option at all to avoid it. Once you talk to the mages, you're effectively locked in to either refuse to go in and kill them outside, or go in by yourself and fight a 5-on-1. Actually there may have been Intimdate/Persuade options once inside, but I don't remember (my char couldn't do it anyway).

The more paranoid characters or those with homicidal tendencies would tend to refuse going in alone/opt fight the outside mages, while the thief-y or very mistrusting characters would go around back without ever approaching the mages. Characters that try to have a moral upstanding or not draw too much attention to themselves without due cause would tend to go in, without any idea of what to expect on the other side.

And honestly, even once I was inside and met the first group of prisoners, I wasn't totally convinced everyone they took in wasn't infected. To me it seemed like they caged up the clean ones for slavery and disposed of the actual sick. How would you feel if it turned out they were telling the truth, that they were actually immunizing some people, and "quarantining" (killing/disposing of) those truly sick with darkspawn taint? Your paranoia and killing the front door mages without cause could've condemned the entire alienage to death as the plague would then go unchecked.

Modifié par KCat, 05 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[KCat]

Oh for crying out loud! There are literarily tens of thousands of people who have soloed that fight on every difficulty level in the game without metagaming.

Have they? I'm sure there's plenty of people that've solo'd the entire game on every difficultly, but to say they did so without meta-gaming.. that's a rather bold claim.

And yes, for anyone without CC I can agreee that it would be difficult (could temporarily set it to easy as well though).

I had it on easy, and it was still a very difficult fight for me. Though I was also, apparently, a comparatively poor mage build, no crowd control (more geared towards support damage and protection, not massive AoE hits), and I'm far from the best at the game, so...

[thegreateski]

KCat wrote...
Have they? I'm sure there's plenty of people that've solo'd the entire game on every difficultly, but to say they did so without meta-gaming.. that's a rather bold claim.

1st playthrough with a 2-h warrior

Difficult but not impossible.

[KCat]

thegreateski wrote...

1st playthrough with a 2-h warrior

Difficult but not impossible.

What difficulty, and did you honestly not make one significant decision on the basis of it helping beat the game vs. simply being "the character"? Nor did you exploit something for more gold/xp/etc? If so, then I (sincerely) salute you.

Modifié par KCat, 05 janvier 2010 - 06:15 .

[Zan Mura]

There was a time when challenge was viewed as such. Now any *choice* that fails when it's made by a gimped character, with the wrong class and a poor player behind the wheels using all the wrong tactics - if any -, is deemed as "stupid design". The very same scaling you (the OP) blame here, is a direct result of the same attitude you show here by demanding that an encounter must be winnable no matter what the circumstances.

Would that the game was designed in a way that was based completely on trial and error. That would be faulty design. But that's not the case, is it? There's always bound to be a few cases where you need to reload just to see what happens, for a whole lot of us playing like that is the norm.

My mage, rogue and warrior found no problems at all with that encounter. And no, they weren't built with any special soloability in mind. In similar other situations where soloing was not a good option considering my particular PC build, it just seemed obvious to me that I would make the choices reflecting that fact. It never even crossed my mind to demand a game where I can roleplay a weakling, who nevertheless goes and faces off great challenges on his own, and is expected to win to boot! And failing that, I would blame the devs for poor design? Sheesh...