286 réponses à ce sujet

[Cornughon]

Feneckus wrote...

Valiant having the highest DPS is exactly why numbers are completely useless.

What kind of stupid formula do you need to end up with such BS ?

Exactly. How come a Black Widow X has a lower DPS than it's DPS?

[Big Jack Shepard]

Stardusk wrote...

 What is the point of the Valiant? It has a cool scope in sound, maybe that is the appeal to it?

Was the Valiant designed by a woman? Is that why you don't like it, Stardusk?

[Stardusk]

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 What is the point of the Valiant? It has a cool scope in sound, maybe that is the appeal to it?

Was the Valiant designed by a woman? Is that why you don't like it, Stardusk?

 Stay on topic.

[Metzeten]

Meh, I like the valiant, its just a bit different. I don't play platinum granted but a bit of variety isn't a bad thing.
That said, I'm not in your position stardusk; my viper (hilariously) Black widow and valiant are all similar levels.

Granted, the valiant is in a similar boat to the vanilla asari adept; it used to be an absolute beast, then everything around it got better.

[Big Jack Shepard]

Stardusk wrote...

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

 What is the point of the Valiant? It has a cool scope in sound, maybe that is the appeal to it?

Was the Valiant designed by a woman? Is that why you don't like it, Stardusk?

 Stay on topic.

Huh?

[KalilKareem]

My valiant is VII, maybe I should try it one day?

[Stardusk]

KalilKareem wrote...

My valiant is VII, maybe I should try it one day?

Maybe it is amazing at higher levels but at II both the Viper and the BW are better.

[darkpassenger2342]

Cornughon wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the valiants ROF is so much better than the vipers i cant even believe you guys are comparing them.
the viper is trash, id rather use the raptor or incisor if i was forced to use an uncommon SR.

I quote:

Aedolon wrote...
- Valiant I deals 8.5% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Valiant X deals 41.2% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Viper empties its clip in about 4.2 seconds, Valiant fires those 6 shots in less than 4 seconds despite having to reload in between - without reload canceling (theoretically 3.3 seconds with perfect reload cancelling)
- Viper has average ROF of 66.1 with reload canceling, 59.3 without
- Valiant has average ROF of 85.7 with reload canceling, 65.9 without

Without reload cancelling it's ROF is hardly 'so much' better...

Unless you're one of the lucky few to have a Valiant V or higher, a Viper is actually a viable alternative.

 i do have a valiant 6, but i dont need numbers to show me ROF rates when i have held both the guns in my hand.
I can get off 2 clips in the valiant as fast as i can get off six shots of the slow ass viper.
dont misunderstand, im not declaring the valiant the best SR, im just saying the viper is crap, and the valiant deserves a better comparison.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[Stardusk]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the valiants ROF is so much better than the vipers i cant even believe you guys are comparing them.
the viper is trash, id rather use the raptor or incisor if i was forced to use an uncommon SR.

I quote:

Aedolon wrote...
- Valiant I deals 8.5% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Valiant X deals 41.2% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Viper empties its clip in about 4.2 seconds, Valiant fires those 6 shots in less than 4 seconds despite having to reload in between - without reload canceling (theoretically 3.3 seconds with perfect reload cancelling)
- Viper has average ROF of 66.1 with reload canceling, 59.3 without
- Valiant has average ROF of 85.7 with reload canceling, 65.9 without

Without reload cancelling it's ROF is hardly 'so much' better...

Unless you're one of the lucky few to have a Valiant V or higher, a Viper is actually a viable alternative.

 i do have a valiant 6, but i dont need numbers to show me ROF rates when i have held both the guns in my hand.
I can get off 2 clips in the valiant as fast as i can get off six shots of the slow ass viper.
dont misunderstand, im not declaring the valiant the best SR, im just saying the viper is crap.

Try it on the T.Soldier. On him Viper> Valiant

[megabeast37215]

Feneckus wrote...

Valiant having the highest DPS is exactly why numbers are completely useless.

What kind of stupid formula do you need to end up with such BS ?

Thank you.

In game performance... it's just lacking. I just got done playing a game with it as a matter of fact (this thread prompted me to revisit it yet again). Was using a QMI (since the one guy said "It's so OP with Tac Scan") Rail Amp III, Warp Rounds III, Sniper Gear V

Gold Geth Hunter/Rocket Trooper - Two shots, one of them must be a headshot... or I can just OSK it with a BODY SHOT from a Black Widow/Javelin/Kishock

Gold Geth Prime - Like 12-15 shots, some of them headshots, while Tac Scanned. Javelin/BW/Kishock poop on that performance too.

Troopers - OSK with a headshot, as expected.

Bombers - 3-4 shots, again... outclassed by the other UR sniper rifles + Kishock.

I don't give a flying f0ck about your DPS numbers and your calculators... IN GAME PERFORMANCE does not support your claims.

I'm still waiting for someone to come at me with a good argument as to why I should be forced to headshot everything with a Valiant, when a body shot from 3 BETTER guns will do the same thing.

You know what kind of guns are typically defended by the whole "You have to headshot with it for it to be any good" argument... crappy guns, underpowered guns. Weapons like the Locust, Geth Pulse Rifle, Raptor, Eagle, etc. You can add the Valiant to that list.

[DJ Airsurfer]

I don't even have the Valiant so I can't really comment. :I

[darkpassenger2342]

Stardusk wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the valiants ROF is so much better than the vipers i cant even believe you guys are comparing them.
the viper is trash, id rather use the raptor or incisor if i was forced to use an uncommon SR.

I quote:

Aedolon wrote...
- Valiant I deals 8.5% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Valiant X deals 41.2% more damage per bullet than Viper X
- Viper empties its clip in about 4.2 seconds, Valiant fires those 6 shots in less than 4 seconds despite having to reload in between - without reload canceling (theoretically 3.3 seconds with perfect reload cancelling)
- Viper has average ROF of 66.1 with reload canceling, 59.3 without
- Valiant has average ROF of 85.7 with reload canceling, 65.9 without

Without reload cancelling it's ROF is hardly 'so much' better...

Unless you're one of the lucky few to have a Valiant V or higher, a Viper is actually a viable alternative.

 i do have a valiant 6, but i dont need numbers to show me ROF rates when i have held both the guns in my hand.
I can get off 2 clips in the valiant as fast as i can get off six shots of the slow ass viper.
dont misunderstand, im not declaring the valiant the best SR, im just saying the viper is crap.

Try it on the T.Soldier. On him Viper> Valiant

 I wont dispute that, because i havent tried it,  and its probably true, but ultimately that negates my point with other classes.

[darkpassenger2342]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Valiant having the highest DPS is exactly why numbers are completely useless.

What kind of stupid formula do you need to end up with such BS ?

Thank you.

In game performance... it's just lacking. I just got done playing a game with it as a matter of fact (this thread prompted me to revisit it yet again). Was using a QMI (since the one guy said "It's so OP with Tac Scan") Rail Amp III, Warp Rounds III, Sniper Gear V

Gold Geth Hunter/Rocket Trooper - Two shots, one of them must be a headshot... or I can just OSK it with a BODY SHOT from a Black Widow/Javelin/Kishock

Gold Geth Prime - Like 12-15 shots, some of them headshots, while Tac Scanned. Javelin/BW/Kishock poop on that performance too.

Troopers - OSK with a headshot, as expected.

Bombers - 3-4 shots, again... outclassed by the other UR sniper rifles + Kishock.

I don't give a flying f0ck about your DPS numbers and your calculators... IN GAME PERFORMANCE does not support your claims.

I'm still waiting for someone to come at me with a good argument as to why I should be forced to headshot everything with a Valiant, when a body shot from 3 BETTER guns will do the same thing.

You know what kind of guns are typically defended by the whole "You have to headshot with it for it to be any good" argument... crappy guns, underpowered guns. Weapons like the Locust, Geth Pulse Rifle, Raptor, Eagle, etc. You can add the Valiant to that list.

there isnt one besides preference or stubbornness and most of that preference was pre-BW buffs.
ill never declare the valiant better, thatd be silly.
But its certainly better than the viper...
 i wasnt joking, id rather use the incisor or raptor.
the only reasonable argument would be headshots, which you covered, and if you are a great shot  with a single shot SR, thats invalid too.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:15 .

[megabeast37215]

Lexa_D wrote...
Same list shows my Valiant X to be the best SR for SI in terms of both boss and mook killtime, and that's why people say it doesn't need a buff, megabeast37215.

Lexa... I like ya bro, I really do... but I'm gonna have to call BS.

The numbers say this and that... but in the game... those numbers don't pan out.

Everyone keeps saying "Sustained DPS vs Armor herp a derp". Take two Infiltrators of the same skill level, give one a Javelin and give the other a Valiant, put them both up against any boss you want... I'll bet the farm the guy with the Javelin kills faster everytime.

These numbers do NOT support in-game performance at all. I'm standing by this argument... DPS on paper is not the end all-be all.

I'd be surprised if the Valiant could kill bosses faster than the Indra....

Modifié par megabeast37215, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:26 .

[darkpassenger2342]

i like how this thread is turning into a discussion that subjective DPS is not always accurate, regardless of position on this particular gun.
that is absolute fact.

[BellHanger]

Correct me if Im wrong but can't the Valiant can get all 3 shots in one tac. cloak? That combined with the higher damage per hit would make the valiant seem like a better weapon on an infiltrator. Then again I don't know the numbers to test if that statement is true. However I do have a few questions

1. Why is everyone comparing a lvl 2 weapon to a lvl 10? Even for a commendation pack that comparison seems a bit unfair. Especialy on a character made to use guns that sport bigger clips than the average.

2. Why the HELL is someone comparing a multi-shot sniper to single shot snipers!?

If we are going to compare the viper/widow to the valiant then can we at least use a comparison that makes a bit more sense?

[megabeast37215]

BellHanger wrote...

Correct me if Im wrong but can't the Valiant can get all 3 shots in one tac. cloak? That combined with the higher damage per hit would make the valiant seem like a better weapon on an infiltrator. Then again I don't know the numbers to test if that statement is true. However I do have a few questions

1. Why is everyone comparing a lvl 2 weapon to a lvl 10? Even for a commendation pack that comparison seems a bit unfair. Especialy on a character made to use guns that sport bigger clips than the average.

2. Why the HELL is someone comparing a multi-shot sniper to single shot snipers!?

If we are going to compare the viper/widow to the valiant then can we at least use a comparison that makes a bit more sense?

Yes it can get all the shots in the Tac Cloak Window... this doesn't mean anything though b/c a bunch of other guns OSK with bodyshots, including the Black Widow. Why force yourself to headshot when it's more time consuming/less efficient? It's so much easier to quickscope, pull the trigger once, OSK your enemy and move on to the next target than scope in, aim at the head, HIT THE HEAD twice then move on.

I'm not comparing a level 2, I'm comparing my level 7 Valiant.

I'm comparing the Valiant to other the other UR sniper rifles... since it is also UR. Also comparing it to other weapons in it's weight class, like the Kishock/Collector Sniper Rifle.

[FasterThanFTL]

Forget DPS, the only thing that matters for a sniper rifle is Accuracy:

Viper = 65 (Never seems to hit where intended, All shots hit different spots)
Valiant = 75 (Pin point accurate, All shots always hits the same spot)

^This is the real reason Valiant is one of the best snipers and viper is considered a bad sniper despite both having similar damage.

[IronRush]

Stardusk wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

My valiant is VII, maybe I should try it one day?

Maybe it is amazing at higher levels but at II both the Viper and the BW are better.

No Stardusk. On this case, you are wrong friend.
I have Valiant VII and I can say it is AMAZING. I only play gold and platinum most of the time.
Valiant has unbelievable control. Good damage and very very fast RoF and reload. With an ammo help, you can headshot a full Geth Hunter on gold.
Viper has slow fire rate. This change all the things on higher difficulties. Slow and less damage per shot.
We can't compare Viper with these 2 sniper rifles.

BW is good like Valiant, but BW trade more damage per recoil/fire rate/reload speed. Is much more harder to control the battlefield with this recoil like a good sniper user do with Valiant.

All I can say is: Valiant and BW are amazing. Both have specific pros and cons.

[cgj]

1st let's state that something like an indra isn't a sniper rifle
then let's talk about the valiant

it used to be the best sniper with the kishock
but as of october it's quite possibly the worst because, let's be honest, most of us use snipers on infiltrators
and an infiltrator with a Mantis and good equipment can easily challenge an infiltrator with a valiant and good equipments on gold

[BellHanger]

megabeast37215 wrote...

BellHanger wrote...

Correct me if Im wrong but can't the Valiant can get all 3 shots in one tac. cloak? That combined with the higher damage per hit would make the valiant seem like a better weapon on an infiltrator. Then again I don't know the numbers to test if that statement is true. However I do have a few questions

1. Why is everyone comparing a lvl 2 weapon to a lvl 10? Even for a commendation pack that comparison seems a bit unfair. Especialy on a character made to use guns that sport bigger clips than the average.

2. Why the HELL is someone comparing a multi-shot sniper to single shot snipers!?

If we are going to compare the viper/widow to the valiant then can we at least use a comparison that makes a bit more sense?

Yes it can get all the shots in the Tac Cloak Window... this doesn't mean anything though b/c a bunch of other guns OSK with bodyshots, including the Black Widow. Why force yourself to headshot when it's more time consuming/less efficient? It's so much easier to quickscope, pull the trigger once, OSK your enemy and move on to the next target than scope in, aim at the head, HIT THE HEAD twice then move on.

I'm not comparing a level 2, I'm comparing my level 7 Valiant.

I'm comparing the Valiant to other the other UR sniper rifles... since it is also UR. Also comparing it to other weapons in it's weight class, like the Kishock/Collector Sniper Rifle.

lol I dont know how I missed you stating that your valiant was at level 7, sorry about that. However I would like to point out that the two guns you listed in the same weight category both have some pretty odd learning curves. One is a single shot projectile sniper that must be charged for both damage and accuracy. The other has a sniper that has to deal with a wierd cooldown mechanic that can be side steped by the use of Adrenalin rush or Marksman. As for the black widow I cant realy say much against it besides the valiant being a lighter gun.

Me personaly I prefer the javalin. Reminds me of the farsight from Perfect Dark.

[megabeast37215]

BellHanger wrote...
lol I dont know how I missed you stating that your valiant was at level 7, sorry about that. However I would like to point out that the two guns you listed in the same weight category both have some pretty odd learning curves. One is a single shot projectile sniper that must be charged for both damage and accuracy. The other has a sniper that has to deal with a wierd cooldown mechanic that can be side steped by the use of Adrenalin rush or Marksman. As for the black widow I cant realy say much against it besides the valiant being a lighter gun.

Me personaly I prefer the javalin. Reminds me of the farsight from Perfect Dark.

Stardusk was the one comparing the Valiant II to the Viper X... I can see some similarities, but I honestly have very little time on the Viper so I can't make a fair statement on that issue.

You probably missed me saying that in the posts above yours b/c... ya know.... 5 pages of ****ing lol.

Agreed about the Javelin... it's the King, and the Black Widow/Kishock/Indra are his queens.

[HolyAvenger]

Its easy to nail headshots with the Valiant. Sure it takes 2-3 shots to kill something compared to the BW, but by the time you deal with the BW recoil, I think the Valiant has killed the same thing and moved on.

Honestly, partly my love for it is nostalgia. I got it in my first three commendation packs and have been using it ever since (before I even got my Widow, not to mention Black Widow or Javelin). And partly because with an SI I genuinely find myself putting out some serious DPS as I can use ED to stay out of cover and make use of its RoF.

I use it on Plat a lot, and I have no complaints about it. But heck, if this is an argument for a buff, please BioWare go right ahead and buff my favourite gun in the game.

[megabeast37215]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Its easy to nail headshots with the Valiant. Sure it takes 2-3 shots to kill something compared to the BW, but by the time you deal with the BW recoil, I think the Valiant has killed the same thing and moved on.

Bro... do you realize how silly that sounds?

"Sure it takes 2-3 shots to kill something... but by the time you deal with the Black Widow's recoil, the Valiant has killed the same thing and moved on."

How can the Valiant possibly be faster in any way, shape or form than a weapon the One-shot-kills the target. There is no recoil/recover and get back on target time... the target is dead instantly, with 1 bullet.. from a shot in the kneecap or hand.

This headshot argument gets weaker and weaker guys. There is nothing "faster" than a one-shot-kill bodyshot... end of story.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[cgj]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Its easy to nail headshots with the Valiant. Sure it takes 2-3 shots to kill something compared to the BW, but by the time you deal with the BW recoil, I think the Valiant has killed the same thing and moved on.

on non-infiltrator maybe
on an infiltrator  the BW has killed 3 marauders by the time the valiant has killed the first one and started on the second and the BW 3 shot an atlas' armor

sure the valiant is nice, it was always good, but with the buffs to other snipers it needs a buff of some sort to justify is promo status now

and btw, BW > Javelin even and especially on the GI