29 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

I mean this in the aristotelian sense. I have been reading up on Aristotles Poetics and I think that video games, particularly the type BioWare make, really need to be constructed in a way that reflects the objective qualities of "tragedy".

www.youtube.com/watch

Great video series talking about it all. I really hope the writers at bioware pay attention to these basics as it will make for a really great game.

All you have to do is look at how The Walking Dead game was told (definitely a tragedy) and it's success to see how these things apply in games so well!

So much drama, love it.

Modifié par StElmo, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:31 .

[wafwexe]

I hope not. Threre's a lot of drama already and I don't want my Inquisitor to dei or sacriface like Shepard did.

[iOnlySignIn]

Of course it will be. The question is, for whom?

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 01 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[AshenShug4r]

I certainly hope not. There can be tragedy within the game but you don't need a tragic end to make a good story.

[Plaintiff]

I think Bioware's storytelling defies that sort of classification. I don't think they are aiming to be "tragic".

[StElmo]

wafwexe wrote...

I hope not. Threre's a lot of drama already and I don't want my Inquisitor to dei or sacriface like Shepard did.

Mass Effect 3 does not meet the requirements I am afraid, watch the video. There is no catharsis in ME3.

[Doctoglethorpe]

DA2 already pretty much was one. Pretty much nothing goes right for Hawke. Every time he starts to do well **** just gets more ****ed up. By the end of the decade he's lost his entire family, his home, he's been betrayed too often to count, some of his friends possibly even force him to kill them, and he accidentally facilitates terrorism which wraps him up in a horrible conflict that nobody wins.

[SirGladiator]

I would certainly hope that after the whole ME3 thing, its pretty obvious that if theres going to be bad, or 'tragic' endings, that's perfectly fine, but there need to be happy endings as well. If its all negative no matter what you do, then there's no point to playing the game. Its hard to top what they did in ME2, it can pretty much be as tragic or happy as you want it to be, and how hard you're willing to work at it. Looking at DAO, most of the endings were happy ones, but you did have the option for a 'tragic' ending, killing off your warden, of course I never did that, I cant imagine why anyone would want to play for 50-100 hours just to kill their character off at the end, but apparently some folks did, and they enjoyed that, so everybody got what they wanted once again. That's what I would hope for and expect in DA3, the ability to have a good or bad ending, depending on how you play the game. ME3 is the only Bioware game I'm aware of where you literally couldn't get a happy ending (before the ending change) no matter what you did, and hopefully it will be the last.

[Doctoglethorpe]

I don't have a problem with tragic endings. I have a problem with badly made endings. That was the real issue I had with ME3. (A common and frustrating misconception from many pro-enders and the media)

DA3 can have a dark and tragic ending, that's cool, so long as its a well made one, and I have a lot of confidence in Gaider to achieve a well made ending which ever way it goes.

The big thing I want to avoid is a cliff hanger.  Happy or sad, I want some sense of finality, not an invisible "to be continued" screen.  Origins had that, Mass Effect had that.  DA2 did not.  I understand they were planning on the expansion finishing it off, but it fell through.  I think all games should be made with the caution that a sequel/expansion may not end up happening, so don't construct an ending that requires one. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 01 décembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[LPPrince]

Its funny when most people making games go, "We need a bittersweet story/ending to a story because happy endings are overdone"

When everyone feels that way, guess what ends up in short supply-

Happy endings. I'm all for a little tragedy here and there, but I want to feel good when I'm playing a game, and an excellent happy send off would be wonderful. Especially with Bioware's last few lackluster game endings.

[StElmo]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

DA2 already pretty much was one. Pretty much nothing goes right for Hawke. Every time he starts to do well **** just gets more ****ed up. By the end of the decade he's lost his entire family, his home, he's been betrayed too often to count, some of his friends possibly even force him to kill them, and he accidentally facilitates terrorism which wraps him up in a horrible conflict that nobody wins.

And it was very good because of it. DA2 is a superb narrative, hindered by rushed production.

[Doctoglethorpe]

StElmo wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

DA2 already pretty much was one. Pretty much nothing goes right for Hawke. Every time he starts to do well **** just gets more ****ed up. By the end of the decade he's lost his entire family, his home, he's been betrayed too often to count, some of his friends possibly even force him to kill them, and he accidentally facilitates terrorism which wraps him up in a horrible conflict that nobody wins.

And it was very good because of it. DA2 is a superb narrative, hindered by rushed production.

I actually agree.  It seems to be an unpopular opinion, but aside from the cliff hanger ending DA2 still had a fantastic if perhaps somewhat erratic story. 

I love Gaider.  <3

(And the rest of the writing team, I know lol.  But as a huge fan of the overall IP and especially the novels I can't help but give Gaider most of the credit)

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 01 décembre 2012 - 04:44 .

[StElmo]

Doctor Moustache wrote...



DA3 can have a dark and tragic ending, that's cool, so long as its a well made one, and I have a lot of confidence in Gaider to achieve a well made ending which ever way it goes.

This.

[StElmo]

LPPrince wrote...

Its funny when most people making games go, "We need a bittersweet story/ending to a story because happy endings are overdone"

When everyone feels that way, guess what ends up in short supply-

Happy endings. I'm all for a little tragedy here and there, but I want to feel good when I'm playing a game, and an excellent happy send off would be wonderful. Especially with Bioware's last few lackluster game endings.

It's not the happy ending that people want, it's the release, the catharsis, the feeling of a conflict resolved.

Happy Endings are meaningless, as are Sad Endings, if the ending comes about in an illogical fashion.

[blueumi]

I hope it's a fair mix of good and evil I always loved how loghain felt so real because he did bad things for what he thought were good reasons
if the story is well written like dragon age origins and mass effect 1 then it will be worth playing

the story just needs to make sense thats it unlike mass effect 3 which is one of the best examples of terrible writing so bad it ruined the first two games as well

say what you like about dragon age 2 it was fun at times and made sense so I will defend that game as dragon age origins did not have it's plot annihilated like poor mass effect did

[WhiteKnyght]

If it isn't, dissatisfied players will make it one "just because" like they do nearly everything else.

[LPPrince]

StElmo wrote...

Happy Endings are meaningless, as are Sad Endings, if the ending comes about in an illogical fashion.

I think everyone can agree on that.

[Daerog]

An ending option where the player can retire and/or settle down would be nice, like the JE endings. No need to leave it off as mysterious, or the player disappeared, since the main protagonist won't be the lead character in the next game anyway.

By all means, keep the heroic sacrifice, or maybe even the friend/ally sacrifice, or even a failure ending, but a return to a quiet life (or as quiet as you can get in Thedas) would be a nice option. I don't think it needs to be a tragedy, the history and atmosphere is already tragic.

[StElmo]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

An ending option where the player can retire and/or settle down would be nice, like the JE endings. No need to leave it off as mysterious, or the player disappeared, since the main protagonist won't be the lead character in the next game anyway.

By all means, keep the heroic sacrifice, or maybe even the friend/ally sacrifice, or even a failure ending, but a return to a quiet life (or as quiet as you can get in Thedas) would be a nice option. I don't think it needs to be a tragedy, the history and atmosphere is already tragic.

that would have to be a natural result of the players actions over the ccarse of the narrative.

Most heroes must have an extreme (but logical) end as a result of their actions in a narrative given the nature of their role..

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

LPPrince wrote...

Its funny when most people making games go, "We need a bittersweet story/ending to a story because happy endings are overdone"

When everyone feels that way, guess what ends up in short supply-

Happy endings. I'm all for a little tragedy here and there, but I want to feel good when I'm playing a game, and an excellent happy send off would be wonderful. Especially with Bioware's last few lackluster game endings.

I am not sure that it is because happy endings are "overdone" but more because of the belief that tragic endings are automatically more interesting. While this isnt exactly true I do find most of my favorite endings do have some sort of tragic element to them, or at the very least I am having trouble recalling a pure happy ending that I felt was really good, at best I can only really think of humorous (in a twisted sense) endings.

Jolt my memory here, what are some of the best happy endings you have seen to use as a model of what a good happy ending should aim for? 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

I only expect the game to deliver what it promises. If it's about saving the world then show me how the world is saved. Not how the world is destroyed. Otherwise don't market the game as such. It really that simple.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Between their usual length (40+ hours), and the fact that I usually do multiple playthroughs, I'd hate to be stuck with a tragedy in a big RPG. Having the option to play it as one, depending on the choices you make (down to the fatal character flaw), would be great.

[StElmo]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I only expect the game to deliver what it promises. If it's about saving the world then show me how the world is saved. Not how the world is destroyed. Otherwise don't market the game as such. It really that simple.

Fair point.

[StElmo]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

Between their usual length (40+ hours), and the fact that I usually do multiple playthroughs, I'd hate to be stuck with a tragedy in a big RPG. Having the option to play it as one, depending on the choices you make (down to the fatal character flaw), would be great.

The Walking Dead is a tragedy and that game has massive replay value.