108 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinobu]

*SPOILERS FOR DAO, DA2 AND THE MASS EFFECT SERIES INSIDE*



Several factors make a "good" or satisfying ending IMO:

1) State of the game world post ending. Battered but rebuilding is OK. DAO gave us this. Crapsack world is NOT OK. DA2 and original "wasteland" (per Mac Walters) ME3 ending gave us this.

2) State of characters we personally know (PC, NPCs) post ending. Dead is ok IF the deaths are OPTIONAL (Virmire, Suicide Mission, DAO Sacrifice/Commander ending) or HEROIC with tremendous meaning (Genophage + Rannoch in ME3, DAO Sacrifice). The original ending of ME3 aimed for "heroic with tremendous meaning" but fell flat because fans interpreted it as "nonheroic with little difference besides a color palette swap."  If the PC has to die, show the individuals they sacrificed themselves for living fulfilling lives. Love interests and favorite companions must have the promise of a happy life if they survived. Also, we want closure as to their fates and the fate of the PC. (The ending slides in DAO did this, the ending slides in the ME3 EC did not.) Keep the focus on the small picture. Do not suddenly change the focus to the fate of the galaxy, personified by random poorly acted grandpas (yes, I know who it is, but I hate stunt casting). Unavoidable senseless deaths are just going to make the player angry, followed by bored on subsequent playthroughs (Hawke's family member).

3) Effect of player choice on the ending

Player choices should affect the ending and each player should have at least one ending they can live with.

DAO had a nicely done ending that wasn't necessarily happy, but which fit. I call it the "Life, Lover or Integrity: pick two" ending. Does the Warden kick the OGB can down the road and run off with Alistair to eat cake? (Life + Lover) Or does she refuse Morrigan and take the blow herself? (Lover + Integrity) Maybe she spares Loghain and has him sacrifice himself, knowing that Alistair will still hate her forever. (Life + Integrity) Maybe she allows her true love to save her life by sacrificing his soul. (Life + Integrity) Each ending has a downside, but it's up to the player to choose which downside is most palatable. This increases replayability.

As far as I'm concerned, ME3 had "Life, Lover or Integrity: BTW, Life and Integrity are off the table trololololol!" (High EMS Destroy doesn't count as Life, IMO, and if your love interest happened to be Thane, you're 0 for 3.) I'm sure this wasn't the intent, but I can't think of a more offputting way to end a series.

To summarize:

DAO:
1) World broken but rebuilding: GOOD
2) We know what happened to PC and NPCs. Living NPCs can have happy lives. GOOD
3) Player choice affects results, even if there is no Golden Ending. GOOD

DA2:
1) Crapsack world: BAD
2) Don't know what happened to PC or NPCs. Living NPCs may be fugitives. Some NPCs killed for no good reason. BAD
3) Player choice still leads to crapsack world. BAD

ME3 Original Ending:
1) Crapsack world: BAD
2) Don't know what happened to anyone but fear the worst (starvation, system sterilizing explosion). INEXCUSABLY BAD
3) Player choice leads to a color palette swap: BAD

ME3 EC Ending
1) World broken but rebuilding: GOOD
2) Still don't know what ultimately happened to NPCs or high EMS Destroy Shepard, but at least they're alive. MEDIOCRE
3) Player choice leads to demonstrably different futures, but some people find none of them appealing. MEDIOCRE

TL:DR
A satisfying ending (not necessarily Golden) has 3 characteristcs:
1) The world is not worse off post game. Broken but rebuilding is fine.
2) PC and NPC deaths are either avoidable or tremendously heroic. Any beloved character who survives should have a fulfilling life afterward. Closure is good.
3) Player choices should affect the ending and the player should have the choice of at least one palatable ending.

[Newschmoo]

If there are different endings which relate to the choices my pc has made, I'll be happy, whether they are happy or sad.

[Volus Warlord]

As long as they are color coded.

[Shinobu]

someguy1231 wrote...

DA3 will end with the player meeting the creator of the Darkspawn, who gives you the choice of destroying all Darkspawn, controlling all Darkspawn, or synthesizing all races with Darkspawn. Oh, and all your previous choices won't matter.

The destroy choice also kills all dwarves.

[Wolfspawn]

Of course they're going to TRY to make a good ending. Even Mass Effect 3 was MEANT to have a "good" ending. That doesn't mean it's GOING to be a good ending. In other words, specifying what you want in an ending will help the developers more than "I want a good ending! Do it!"

[Twisted Path]

It annoys me when people who are asking for a "good" ending conflate good with happy. It gives legitimacy to the meme that people who hated the ME3 ending where whiney, entitled babies.

I personally don't care if the ending of a video game is as tragic as Hamlet, as long as it's well written and fits with what's been going on in the rest of the game. The endings of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 where bad because stuff came out of nowhere (the Starchild, the mage and templar bosses going super-sayen and fighting you no matter which side you chose, etc.) and because they were just really badly executed.

[Wolfspawn]

Twisted Path wrote...

It annoys me when people who are asking for a "good" ending conflate good with happy. It gives legitimacy to the meme that people who hated the ME3 ending where whiney, entitled babies.

I personally don't care if the ending of a video game is as tragic as Hamlet, as long as it's well written and fits with what's been going on in the rest of the game. The endings of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 where bad because stuff came out of nowhere (the Starchild, the mage and templar bosses going super-sayen and fighting you no matter which side you chose, etc.) and because they were just really badly executed.

[TNT1991]

David Gaider wrote...

It's true. We'll give it our best shot.

 

Will there be dinosaurs in it?

[Navasha]

I think they should make an easter egg ending...

like holding down the shift key throughout the entire scrolling credits results in your main character skipping happily into the rainbow filled sunset sky hand in hand with the love interest, all the while birds, bunnies, and puppies follow behind.

[TNT1991]

EntropicAngel wrote...

TNT1991 wrote...

Will there be dinosaurs in it?

This is DA, not Star Wars.

 

Sooooo... that's a "no" on the dinosaurs? What about rainbow robotic unicorns?

[Conduit0]

Pedrak wrote...

It becomes more and more apparent to me that many people here hated the ME3 endings not because they made no sense, but because they didn't get the chance to ride into the sunset with their love interest.

And it's even more apparent that people are doing the equation:
ME3 had bittersweet endings
ME3 's endings didn't work
Therefore, ALL bittersweet endings don't work.

Anyway, Bio should probably make a "nearly-impossible to achieve golden ending where all characters survive and play with kittens and go to Disneyland and even the villains become good" just so people won't complain for the next few years.

I'm all for that, but only if they make multiplayer mandatory to achieve said ending. That way I can drown in the delicious tears of the forum ragers.

[TNT1991]

EntropicAngel wrote...

No robots!

And rainbow unicrons, you can get those elsewhere.

 

Okay, okay.

....

How about Chimeras? A cockatrice? My final offer(s). 

[Dutchess]

TNT1991 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

No robots!

And rainbow unicrons, you can get those elsewhere.

 

Okay, okay.

....

How about Chimeras? A cockatrice? My final offer(s). 

Wrong universe. Those are all for Geralt.

Modifié par renjility, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:54 .

[Conduit0]

I don't see a problem with a cockatrice, it could just be another dragon subspecies like the wyvern, and a chimera could be an attempt to recreate Harvesters, using animals instead of people.

[Fredward]

Volus Warlord wrote...

As long as they are color coded.

Their should be a pink one. Pink should be fan service. Where your hero gets to ride of into the sunset with his/her LI, all the people who died get resurrected because reasons, the templars and mages sing kumbayah and help each other get over their emotional issues, the protag and LI adopt a cat, Blight orphan and rainbow pony and live happily ever after. Oh and they're king and queen of everything and they're super mega powerful so no one messes with them and they have oodles of cash that they often bath in.

[thesnake777]

David Gaider wrote...

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I'm pretty certain they're aiming for a terrible ending....

It's true. We'll give it our best shot.

HAHA I enjoyed that. 

[Flurdt Vash]

I would be content with an written epilogue like in DAO. Its seems to be easier to do that, you dont have to worry about cut scenes and you can have a ton a different outcomes like in DAO . That is just my humble opinion. DA2 had a Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver ending ... just stopped GARRRHHH I hate cliffhangers <_<

Modifié par Flurdt07, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:56 .

[Ridwan]

Just include the option for a good ending, those that want the "life sucks, and then you die" can have theirs and I'll have my lived happily ever after ending.

[Flurdt Vash]

M25105 wrote...

Just include the option for a good ending, those that want the "life sucks, and then you die" can have theirs and I'll have my lived happily ever after ending.

I second that

[esper]

Flurdt07 wrote...

I would be content with an written epilogue like in DAO. Its seems to be easier to do that, you dont have to worry about cut scenes and you can have a ton a different outcomes like in DAO . That is just my humble opinion. DA2 had a Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver ending ... just stopped GARRRHHH I hate cliffhangers <_<

And then have the textboxes handwaved away do to being just rumours? No thanks.

[esper]

Flurdt07 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Just include the option for a good ending, those that want the "life sucks, and then you die" can have theirs and I'll have my lived happily ever after ending.

I second that

Bittersweet holds no meaning if the all lives happy ever after exists.

[Ridwan]

esper wrote...

Flurdt07 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Just include the option for a good ending, those that want the "life sucks, and then you die" can have theirs and I'll have my lived happily ever after ending.

I second that

Bittersweet holds no meaning if the all lives happy ever after exists.

Worked in Origins.

Spare Loghain, have Alistair marry Anora, refuse ritual, let Loghain take the killing blow. Then mend fences with Alistair (he was softening up just before the game ended when we're in the big room all patting each other on the back on a job well done). There you go, happy ending.