128 réponses à ce sujet

[menasure]

do not worry there is currently a slight contradiction between what the manual states and what the moderators advice and once the dex bug fix has come through it might just all change again.
the funny part is that some fans claim this to be a revolutionary system because there is no such thing as a strenght - dex investment but a strength - willpower investmentent. i just thought that on both accounts those are 2 stat builds??? lol

Modifié par menasure, 29 novembre 2009 - 05:55 .

[Gecon]

T1l wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Because it's not modeled as DPS.

BS. What is it, then? Don't say "tanking", or I'll reach through the computer and slap you.

Bahaha yeah destroy your monitor.

It IS tanking because the guys pump Str like theres no tomorrw -> massive armor is no issue.

[Grineye]

2h gets extremely strong starting around level 20. It's a class that reaches its full potential after you've put enough points into strength that it starts going over 90. You rarely miss and will constantly hit for around 100~140, and with skills usually between 150~180. May feel a bit slow when killing just regular mobs but going against bosses, 2h warrior will be your source of greatest and continuous dps.

[Rainen89]

How to 2h warrior they are not gimped.



Stack nothing but strength not constitution, not dexterity, not cunning not anything but strength. You do not need dex for hit, strength covers that. You do not need constiution for health, your armor will cover that and just leveling in general. Cunning is a rogue stat do not bother with it. Specs become Berserker and Templar/Champ (I personally prefer templar because the aoe knockdown coupled with setting up aoe CC is priceless.) That and Knight Commander armor is one of the best pieces in the game and very cheap.



In the end you will be an auto attacking juggernaught that rotates single target abilities for optimal damage, your "sunder" attacks are double hits so they're not useless but only worth using once your strength is adequate so that you're not missing as it does not recieve a worthwhile damage boost.



Step 2 get a freakin' maul the damage will skyrocket and armor pen is your friend, it is your best, bestest friend. Also get a mage to perma cast telekinetic weapons / haste and you're in business.



Next always have Indomitable/Powerful swings (Once and only once you get two handed strength, until you get it it's actually a pointless debuff.) You can use precision strikes I find it useless but to each their own. Rotating massive strikes on bosses is key though will add an extra 20 ish damage to attacks in the end. You should be sitting at 70-80 strength in the end and hitting like a freaking truck.



TLDR No 2h is not gimped you're doing it wrong, in the beginning it's not amazing but it's far from gimped. No it's not the uber best super duper greatest spec in the game. Please see auto win Arcane Warrior for further details, but it's far from gimped and even farther from useless. 2h surpasses S/B in my opinion.

[Loetek]

Ummm you dont get anymore +attack from Dex than you do Str. There is no reason to put anything into dex unless you want to tank.

2h weapons are almost useless in this game when you see that duelwielding has this niffty talent called Momentum... As if 1 handed weapons where not fast enough as is.

Modifié par Loetek, 05 décembre 2009 - 09:40 .

[DragonRageGT]

Vette-LPC wrote...

 well my current avatar is my 2h word warrior, he has the best dps ive seen of my characters, hits well over 100 most swings. check him stats for some info on 2h users .

Ditto!

My level 22 finished Hard diff and he was amazing, with 20 injuries and all... so I recreated him for a NM run, perfected his built even more and he's level 17 now with zero injuries (will prolly finish the game higher than 22 too) and  very decent stats for hit rate, dmg and I will be getting the Heavy Hitter achievement with him sometime!

See how he is not gimped! (or check him out)

Gladiator!

Modifié par RageGT, 05 décembre 2009 - 10:05 .

[Loetek]

RageGT wrote...

Vette-LPC wrote...

 well my current avatar is my 2h word warrior, he has the best dps ive seen of my characters, hits well over 100 most swings. check him stats for some info on 2h users .

Ditto!

My level 22 finished Hard diff and he was amazing, with 20 injuries and all... so I recreated him for a NM run, perfected his built even more and he's level 17 now with zero injuries (will prolly finish the game higher than 22 too) and  very decent stats for hit rate, dmg and I will be getting the Heavy Hitter achievement with him sometime!

See how he is not gimped! (or check him out)

Gladiator!

Contribution to party damage:


39

Not dogging your build or anything... but isnt that kinda low?

[Rainen89]

Loetek wrote...

Ummm you dont get anymore +attack from Dex than you do Str. There is no reason to put anything into dex unless you want to tank.

2h weapons are almost useless in this game when you see that duelwielding has this niffty talent called Momentum... As if 1 handed weapons where not fast enough as is.

Momentum is nice and all but two handed is hardly left in the dust. With decent weapons Keening and such you would be auto attacking for 50 ish. Rogue backstab not included, it's impossible to outdps this in a pure dps race. Compare to warrior 2h which is auto attacking for 90 at least and using styles for 120+, it's not left in the dust please stop making overgeneralizations. Indomitable has incredible merrit as well. Not being overwhelmed/grabbed/knockedown affected by both physical and spell knockdowns is just huge. Again I'm not saying it's the best uber dpsing class ever, it's just hardly useless. Also duh dex doesn't contribute to damage heck, unless you get a hotfix dex doesn't contribute to the damage of...anything.

[Rainen89]

It's possible to hit more than 39, heck can get 50+. Either way melee dps is never topping party damage. The mage is because of that wonderful thing called aoe. The only thing dual wield is vastly superior to 2h is just aoe damage on trash, then it's amazing.

[Loetek]

Rainen89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...

Ummm you dont get anymore +attack from Dex than you do Str. There is no reason to put anything into dex unless you want to tank.

2h weapons are almost useless in this game when you see that duelwielding has this niffty talent called Momentum... As if 1 handed weapons where not fast enough as is.

Momentum is nice and all but two handed is hardly left in the dust. With decent weapons Keening and such you would be auto attacking for 50 ish. Rogue backstab not included, it's impossible to outdps this in a pure dps race. Compare to warrior 2h which is auto attacking for 90 at least and using styles for 120+, it's not left in the dust please stop making overgeneralizations. Indomitable has incredible merrit as well. Not being overwhelmed/grabbed/knockedown affected by both physical and spell knockdowns is just huge. Again I'm not saying it's the best uber dpsing class ever, it's just hardly useless. Also duh dex doesn't contribute to damage heck, unless you get a hotfix dex doesn't contribute to the damage of...anything.

Indomitable is a nice skill. But not to count a rogues backstab is kind of silly. I would never even bother making a duel wield warrior. (Im not much of a roleplayer) Becuase whats the difference between a rogue and a warrior in this game? Rogues can still wear the heaviest armor just like a warrior. And the stats all account for the same thing to. Warriors just get bonuses to crit every level I think... (with percise strike?) but its out matched by a rogues ability to crit every single hit.

2Handers have perks but they are completely outshined by sword and shield, and duel wielding.

[Loetek]

I took a level 12 rogue that I lost interest in one time, used a potion respec, Got strength up to 22 i think... just so I could use a Maul. Got dex up to a certain point... cant remember and put the rest into cunning.



With Leathality and only other rogues skills. No specials like bard or assassin. My rogue was hitting for 79... every swing.... and thats not the best part, seems that rogue special attacks also are affected by weapon damage... or just damage in general. The elite Bounty hunter I was attacking took 3 back to back almost instant attacks that all hit for 79.



If you ask me, a two handed rogue is better than a 2 handed warrior. And I probably didnt even allocate stats right. And i think being able to stealth in the middle of a fight or feigh death is better than Indomitable. But thats just me.

[DragonRageGT]

Loetek wrote...

RageGT wrote...

Vette-LPC wrote...

 well my current avatar is my 2h word warrior, he has the best dps ive seen of my characters, hits well over 100 most swings. check him stats for some info on 2h users .

Ditto!

My level 22 finished Hard diff and he was amazing, with 20 injuries and all... so I recreated him for a NM run, perfected his built even more and he's level 17 now with zero injuries (will prolly finish the game higher than 22 too) and  very decent stats for hit rate, dmg and I will be getting the Heavy Hitter achievement with him sometime!

See how he is not gimped! (or check him out)

Gladiator!

Contribution to party damage:


39

Not dogging your build or anything... but isnt that kinda low?

I dunno. Is it? first one had 33% like yours... 39% seems an improvement to me and I have a kicking azz party, well treated, well equipped and well skilled in combat... what can I say... (not to mention that I change party a lot. Only fixed party member is my Leliana.. we have a thing going and with that perv Zerv around... I won't let them alone in the camp...err)

39% in a party of 4, usually with two 2-handers or a very effective Alistair... (and a full melee madness party sometimes) doesn't sounds bad to me... average would still be 25%.

And indomitable is cool.. I can resist Dragons and rogues stun attacks while they cannot resist my pommel strike or mighty blow or crit stunning most of the times... well, a Dragon can really... they're so huge!

Modifié par RageGT, 05 décembre 2009 - 11:52 .

[OneBadAssMother]

Well... funny considering I just wrote a post on how to be a 2-hander on another thread. Anyway...



Attributes:

STR should be primary, WILL should be secondary.



Everything else, forget about it. DEX would come up third but it's hardly needed. No need for CONS, either. Any other attributes, get them just for roleplaying purposes (like cunning for persuasion skill etc).



The weakness you'll have is that you won't survive indefinitely like a sword/board warrior surrounded by 10+ mobs. But, you'll do some crazy damage.



For talents, your main attacks should be sunder arms/sunder armor -> both of them do 2 hits at the same time as 1 attack, not much stamina usage either. Use mighty blow/critical strike for mages/archers, pommel strike is last resort - does no damage. You want powerful swings + indominable on at all battles. Upgraded berserk is just for extra damage, and you will want deathblow as a passive too - for the sake of stamina regen.



Oh btw, if you want to know why STR > DEX? It's because DEX gives you def + attack. STR gives attack + DAMAGE. =)

[Sam -stone- serious]

My level 19 dwarf drunkard who is full of two handed talents and has an insane points allocation in strength and a fair ammount in dexterity and constitution is a complete joke. I used the -respec mod- because i REALLY wanted a dwarf in my team and changed him into a dual wielding sword master and he cuts some serious ass. 2 handed weapons can only dream about the output 2 weapons can dish out. Combined with my own dual dagger rogue they drop single targets disgustingly fast now while Morrigan and Wynne keep the other bastards away with sleep and earthquake spells.

[Elanareon]

hehe you miss? poor you.. I saw a youtube vid once his warrior was swinging 100+ damage autoattack! never missed! Wonder what damage his mighty blow ends up with...

[Dreogan]

I managed to complete the game as a two-handed warrior my first run through the game. If I played like a glass cannon I was fine: the best armor went to Alistair, I put only a few points into con and dex, and went for the Champion spec so I could help buff the party. Not an "optimal" runthrough, but there's really no point in worrying about optimal in a single-player game.

For companion abilities, the most important thing to get early was Taunt for Alistair. Also, Wynne + Lilyanna were a good for the other two characters. (Spirit healer + Bard)

Are there better specs for a warrior? Maybe. Are there better ways to play? Probably. Do I give a rat's ass? Nah, it was fun. In the end, playing as a 2h warrior is pretty much the opposite of a mage (arcane warrior): instead of making the game easier, it makes it harder.

Also, consider putting -threat items went directly to my 2h warrior.

Modifié par Dreogan, 05 décembre 2009 - 12:04 .

[Sam -stone- serious]

Is it certain he did not use any cheats? Because i find that quite unbelievable considering i have 45 STR and 32 Dex and i barely managed (when it finaly landed) 45 - 50 damage.

[Matthew Young CT]

Are you using a statless tier 1 sword?

[DragonRageGT]

I just wouldn't consider the sunder line of talents essential. It's usually the last one I take and I can do without it pretty well. Powerful Swings is a waste of stamina and it reduces attack rating, imho. Rally is much better to have as sustained, with indomitable of course. It adds to attack rating and defense with Motivate.



Berserker/Champ works really good for me and I can outlive a s/s warrior like Alistair with his full s/s talents filled up. Warcry and two handed sweep for c/c works too.

[OneBadAssMother]

2 handed weapons can only dream about the output 2 weapons can dish out.

That is agreed. I can boost about doing 100+ damage a hit with my 2-hander, while my wife's rogue can do 200+ damage by the time I swung the sword. But her character gets thrown to the ground, stunned, knocked down, etc etc. My character is more to my tastes.

I just wouldn't consider the sunder line of talents essential. It's
usually the last one I take and I can do without it pretty well.
Powerful Swings is a waste of stamina and it reduces attack rating,
imho. Rally is much better to have as sustained, with indomitable of
course. It adds to attack rating and defense with Motivate.

Berserker/Champ
works really good for me and I can outlive a s/s warrior like Alistair
with his full s/s talents filled up. Warcry and two handed sweep for
c/c works too.

It's actually the 2 hits instead of 1 hit per attack that sold the sunder line of talents to me to be honest. It does help since your weapon speed is rather sluggish.

BTW, as for Rally, I can't get over the darn sound when your allies enter/exit your aura - so never used it!
Yeah, it does drive me freakin' insane.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 05 décembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[FedericoV]

Begarian wrote...

Heh. By the end of the game (level 21...22ish), my two handed Berserker/Reaver dwarven noble warrior had 125ish attack rating, and a 72ish damage rating. Same with Sten. Two two handed warriors wielding a buffed out Starfang and Chasind Great Maul = major death. With all of the stamina regeneration on my main character, I could bust out a lot of the two handed skills.

Edit:  Just double checked my DPS stats
69.6 Damage w/ Heavy Swings
111 Attack Rating w/ Heavy Swings

79.6 Damage w/ Heavy Swings and Song of Valour and berserk
116 Attack Rating w/ Heavy Swings and Song of Valour and berserk

He has little to no dexterity (around 20ish) and nearly 60 strength.  With a badass two hander, you'll be cleaving faces off necks in no time. 

Well, then I need to reconsider my idea to make a 2h warrior for my next playthorugh.

With my Sword and Board tank at the end of the game I had something like 60 dmg-125 attack (with song of valour and motivate), but since my 1H starfang was really quicker than a 2H, I imagine that I was doing the same damage of yours.

Since I've got Warcry and Holy Smyte I do not need more control power (Morrigain has plenty of powers in that sense).

In DA:O warrior shine for defense, survivability and last crowd control. Not for damage.

In that sense I do not see the need to loose all the nice defense you gain with the board specialization and the bonus to willpower and stamina (and defense) brought by Duncan or Redcliffe shield for 20 points of damage per swing when the speed of the weapon at the end gimps the points... not to consider that a sworld and board warrior is easier to micromanage.

Loosing defense for crowd control and not damage is a bad bargain, since a mage is all you need to control mobs in DA:O.

In general it seems that the only situation where a 2H is better than a 1H is when you face a singel boss like Dragons and so on.

[Hahren]

Loetek wrote...

2h weapons are almost useless in this game when you see that duelwielding has this niffty talent called Momentum... As if 1 handed weapons where not fast enough as is.

Momentum is really part of the problem. Momentum is the talent that has become the measuring stick of what is useful.

The two-weapon tree is incredibly broken. All you need is the first 2 talents from the first line (increased damage, and you could skip the attack/defense boost, but why not take it?), and sweep -> momentum. That's it. 5 talents, and your rogue/warrior can do over 50% of your party damage via auto attack. That low of an investment into your character should not result in such power. That is attainable before you even set foot into the tower at Ostagar. When using activated attacks like Flurry actually lower your damage output then the tree is broken. Outside of using Riposte for the occasional stun I see little point in Cripple/Punisher either. Part of the problem with this tree is that it is designed without downsides for taking lower tier skills, and then take higher tier to relieve the penalties. That's a theme within the shield style, and 2h style that didn't find it's way to dual weild. Those two styles require heavy investment to relieve penalties, and make the most of the style. Dual weapons really drops the ball on that in my opinion.

I do feel that some things could have been handled better for 2h. Like the talent 2h Strength should remove the penalty from Powerful swings not lessen it. The damage boost is flat, and not that large for the penalties forced on you. Critical Blow should have it's instant death either at a higher health percentage than 20%, or be more like Arrow of Slaying (I would prefer that honestly). That's just to name a few things, but the style is still playable.

My advice for getting the most out of your 2h warriors is this... Strength is your prime stat. Invest heavily into it. Willpower is also nice so you can use more abilities, and run more sustained effects. Then, turn off the scripts, and learn to manually control your 2h user. I suppose you could let the game auto pilot Sunder Arms/Armor/Pommel Strike. Thing is you don't want special attacks going off whilly nilly. They reset your swing timer. It's better to auto-attack->sunder arms->auto-attack->sunder armor->auto-attack->etc...  Then if you have a frozen target you can decide if you want to shatter it with a Mighty Blow/Critical Blow. Micro-managing the style is how I have grown to like it. If you don't want to do that then be prepared to be disappointed I guess.

[Hahren]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

It's actually the 2 hits instead of 1 hit per attack that sold the sunder line of talents to me to be honest. It does help since your weapon speed is rather sluggish.

Not only do you hit twice, but they are fairly cheap with reasonable cooldowns.

[FedericoV]

Let me understand: I was planning to play a 2H in my second playthrough.



I dont' mind micromanage and such. I do not use tactics at all in my first playthrough.



But do I have to time each attack manually since the attack are slow and if you do not issue the order at the right time I loose my current attack?



Well, I understand that we cannot queue actions with the stamina/mana system but that's too much even for me. That's sound like Titan Quest where at least there wqas just one charachter to manage!

[Powkungafuga]

I have a level 10 warrior and prefer the two handed weapon, however the key is use your best attacks on a single enemy at first and follow up with any others to kill the target and then switch to the secondary mode of fighting such as with sword and shield or two handed , bows in my opinion are either a main weapon with dual weapons as melee protection and you should always use arrows with magic capabilities like fire, cold, lightning, etc.... There is this one Two-Handed weapon attack called Sweep that knocks a whole group of enemies on their collective asses if you time it right and that one has come in handy, the thing is there is a reason you have four adventurers, and there is a place for the Two-Handed fighting method for at least one of your characters that is a warrior especially if you have an Alpha hurlock pressing you or an Ogre, Dual weapons are also very effective,but I notice that  if I am not  adjacent to an enemy and facing that enemy and I choose a dual weapon attack , the character will launch the attack in mid air instead of running up to the enemy and then launching the move. So you kinda have to micro manage which you have to anyway if you want to win battles, you've got to be involved in every move each of your party members makes in a combay situation to get the best out of each individual character and the way they fight. To me this is the core strength of the game, the combat system. If you don't win , you don't continue the epic adventure , as it should be with heroes.
 Can I get a witness?