128 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

And I do take a full melee party out, sometimes 3 melee plus Zev or Leliana, and we do really fine. Yeah, mages make it easier but sometimes I just take them to craft some pots and send them back to camp too. Go watch my DA Melee madness vid.. hehe... I'll make more of those too!

EDIT:
Meanwhile, on my first run, in hard diff, I had to side with Branka because I found no way to beat her then. She would kill my whole party so easily that I gave up after the 10th attempt... and now in NM I did kill her so easily...  with two 2 handers tanking her, a mage and my Leliana running up the lyrium veins! And yeah some spellcasting too, why not... it is nightmare after all!

Branka - The Princess of the Dawn - The full Anvil of the Void episode with all cutscenes and my party for the combat of course!

Modifié par RageGT, 07 décembre 2009 - 03:47 .

[lifeisdeath]

wow, 300 damage? i thought 2H would be better, end game, than my ranger. my max was at about level 21.

social.bioware.com/playerprofile.php

Modifié par lifeisdeath, 07 décembre 2009 - 04:29 .

[rumination888]

lifeisdeath wrote...

wow, 300 damage? i thought 2H would be better, end game, than my ranger. my max was at about level 21.

social.bioware.com/playerprofile.php

Grats on using an ability that only does that kind of damage against level 1 targets with a 60 second cooldown.

[DragonRageGT]

It is his prerrogative and it is a cool hit anyway! Can it be done in Nightmare though? And I'd say that since my 2h warrior has better hit rate and party damage contribution %, he is more effective, is he not?

[fro7k]

My Sten is a two-handed warrior, and very mighty. I poured everything into strength plus he gets his strength bonuses for making him friendly. Precise striking will help with missing. He is slow to swing but hits very hard. The +50 health on his red dragon armour is worth 10 points of constitution, so I can happily focus on strength only.

[Korva]

What bugs me about two-handers is that they only get half the benefit from runes and "weapon buffs" that dual-wielders do. That, and the slow swing speed which is a tad boring to watch.

[DragonRageGT]

It is really not that slow... kinda makes sense for the weight of the beast too... it gets slower with useless sustained talents... but if you work on your STR you really don't need those and you get faster attack speed. I save my stamina for critical and mighty blows mostly... some Warcry when needed and final blow when possible to finish something big. Only Indomitable and Berserker on self:any/activate skill and Rally manually activated.

[packardbell]

My 2h warrior is a literal powerhouse whom ploughs his way through anything... though that may have something to do with him having the best gear in the game and having a few heals.



Like in MMO's the 2h warriors needs healing otherwise he will drop like a sack of potatoes, also try not to overaggro as your warrior does not need that kind of attention.

[Asugai2]

I just finished my playthrough with Human Noble 2h Warrior on Hard difficulty. He was quite good, with 90% hit rate and 56% party damage contribution.

Here are a few tips:

Race? The best is of course Dwarf. Racial bonuses complement the class perfectly, in addition to +10 Spell Resistance which is huge. Human is also good.

Strength is your primary attribute. By the end of the game, aim it to be 80+ (with item bonuses of course) since you need to focus on high damage and attack rating.

Dexterity - Don't touch it. With the Lost in Dreams quest bonuses + starting bonus you should have a score of 18, which is required for Disengage (quite useful for this type of character) and Perfect Striking.

Why so low? Because Strength is as good for hitting things, only harder, and your defense will suck anyway, so we are going to rely on high armor score and health pool + Disengage/Indomitable and War Cry/Two Handed Sweep/Holy Smite to keep opponents away. Of course, having a good tank helps a lot.

Another stat which you shouldn't raise is Magic.

You will need a good score in Willpower for all the sustained and activated abilities. 30+ here. Keep an eye for some gear with stamina boost.

Put 1-2 points in Cunning for 4th tier Coercion, provided that you have collected all the permanent bonuses from the Mage's Circle quest.

Constitution is also an important stat. You'll want to grab the Lifegiver ring as early as possible (+10 Con and improved healing effects). I finished with around 40 Con and 400 HP.

I recommend Champion/Templar for the specializations. Champion nets you a nice bonus in WIllpower, in addition to War Cry which is amazing, and Rally which is also great.

Templar is arguably the best warrior specialization for any build. The ability to drain enemy mage's mana with each hit, mental resistance bonus, Cleanse Area and Holy Smite are all useful abilities and they mix well with 2hander.

In my playthrough I went with Berserker instead of Templar but that was wrong. The 8 damage bonus from raging is more useful to dual wielder because of the faster attack speed. And the last ability will drain your stamina dry and that is something you don't want.

Now about the gear. I think the optimal set is: Blood Dragon armor plate, Gloves of Dilligence, Helm of Honnleath, Warden Commander's Boots, Spellward, Lifegiver, Key to the City and Andruil's Blessing. It will grant you an armor score of 41 I think, which is very good.

Chasind Great Maul or Starfang as the weapon choice. On combat animations, they are indeed slow and indeed look silly when wielding a sword, but they are perfectly made out for mauls. On the other hand, most of the finishing moves are intended for swords. That is something which is beyond me.

Tactically, you want a good tank, such as Shale or Alistair to keep aggro and allow you to flank and dish out damage. Wynne, of course, with Haste and healing is very important, unless you don't play with a mage, so you might want to work around another strategy.

Myself, I went with Wynne, Shale and Dog and I had a good time. Indomitable is really the highlight of 2hander, and you will be felling ogres like nothing with this character. It holds his ground in combat really well, and I hope you will have good time if you chose to play as one.

Modifié par Asugai2, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:03 .

[sinosleep]

If you suck with two handers it's because YOU suck. Sunder arms and sunder armor both swing the weapon twice and both regularly crit on at least one of the hits and some times two. Considering I crit in the 100's that 's usually at least 150 damage from one move that can go up to 200, do them back to back and it's an easy 300 damage ranging up to 400 all the while debuffing what ever it is you're hitting. Save massive blow and crit for shattering frozen or petrified enemies or if you've got stamina to spare just use them to pass the time until sunder arms and armor are back from cool down. Stop using sustained abilities since if your tank is doing his job you won't need them, stop wearing massive armor as it's just a stamina drain and again, if you tank is doing his job you don't need it, add in a two handed sweep every once in a while and you will be doing PLENTY of damage. Pump strength and will and you'll have have a high hit rate with enough will to constantly churn out special moves which btw, seem to completely ignore weapon speed so you'll be hitting a hell of a whole lot more often than the auto attack rate.

p.s. You can get two teir 6 great axes extremely early in the game by doing the sacred ashes questline, which is usually the 2nd thing I do, right after doing redcliffe.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:28 .

[Darth_Shizz]

sinosleep wrote...

...stop wearing massive armor as it's just a stamina drain and again, if you tank is doing his job you don't need it, add in a two handed sweep every once in a while and you will be doing PLENTY of damage. Pump strength and will and you'll have have a high hit rate with enough will to constantly churn out special moves which btw, seem to completely ignore weapon speed so you'll be hitting a hell of a whole lot more often than the auto attack rate.

I agree on most of what you've said, however, massive armour is debatable. With enough + stam/regen and willpower, you should have enough stamina to never need to worry about running dry. I've personally found that in my current playthrough, I've needed the massive armour, as both of my warriors are 2 handers with split tanking duties. I suppose it's dependant on party setup though.

As for the part I bolded, surely this is a reason NOT to avoid sustainables such as precise striking? (not aimed at you so much, but others that call it a weak ability). It adds a significant amount of critical at high levels, which actually synergises incredibly well with a majority of the talents, sunder especially. 

[OneBadAssMother]

2Handers have perks but they are completely outshined by sword and shield, and duel wielding.

Having played both, I prefer 2handing myself. Sword/board is great for tanking, but if you want DPS, its either a DW rogue, or a 2H warrior in my opinion. Sword swings with sword/board isn't much faster then 2handers, and they dont benefit much from STR increases either. Talents arent so great either for damage (Assault/etc).

Sunder arms and sunder armor both swing the weapon twice and both regularly crit on at least one of the hits and some times two.

It's actually surprising how many people don't use the sunder line of talents!!!

[sinosleep]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

I agree on most of what you've said,
however, massive armour is debatable. With enough + stam/regen and
willpower, you should have enough stamina to never need to worry about
running dry. I've personally found that in my current playthrough, I've
needed the massive armour, as both of my warriors are 2 handers with
split tanking duties. I suppose it's dependant on party setup though.

As
for the part I bolded, surely this is a reason NOT to avoid
sustainables such as precise striking? (not aimed at you so much, but
others that call it a weak ability). It adds a significant amount of
critical at high levels, which actually synergises incredibly well with
a majority of the talents, sunder especially. 

The massive armor is an optimization type deal. If I'm playing a 2 hander warrior then I'm going to play with a dedicated sword and board tank. Then only times I ever needed to split from the party it was to take down mages in multiple mage fights (have mage force field one, tank stun the other, my pc would then pommel strike and way lay the last as more mages than 2 or 3 practically never happens) or arches which you don't really need massive armor for. In a set up like yours though with no true tank I could see why you would wear it.

As for precise striking, I was thinking more along the lines of how most people recommend indomitable, which is why I mentioned that you shouldn't need it with a dedicated tank. I also tend to use hale runes on my 2 handers (damage runes far more useful on faster weapons) and rock knocker so I get to 90+ physical resistance in no time any way, which makes you virtually immune to knock downs and such any way. I actually use precise striking myself, it has a low cost and the crit as you said meshes well with the other abilities. It's the ONLY sustained ability I use though.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:58 .

[TeleProd]

I got through the game on hard just fine with my 2h warrior main character. Well, I switched from normal about 1/3 in. Gimped? Maybe, but it worked and fit my character. I prefer not to min/max too much.

Modifié par TeleProd, 07 décembre 2009 - 08:02 .

[Ambaryerno]

If STR is being used to determine To-Hit then something is SERIOUSLY hosed with the combat model. The most STR has to do with how accurately you can swing a weapon is that it helps you stabilize and control it, but there's no way it should have a direct 1:1 correlation with Dex's impact on Attack rating (DEX should easily contribute at LEAST 2-3:1).



And I definitely agree that 2H weapons are WAY too slow.

[Rukkis4458]

Ambaryerno wrote...

If STR is being used to determine To-Hit then something is SERIOUSLY hosed with the combat model. The most STR has to do with how accurately you can swing a weapon is that it helps you stabilize and control it, but there's no way it should have a direct 1:1 correlation with Dex's impact on Attack rating (DEX should easily contribute at LEAST 2-3:1).

And I definitely agree that 2H weapons are WAY too slow.

Its a gameplay balance issue, not a real life physics one.  There needs to be a relative balance between offensive and defensive builds.  If dex contributed more than strength than def warriors would be more acurate than offensive ones. 

[sinosleep]

Ambaryerno wrote...

If STR is being used to determine To-Hit then something is SERIOUSLY hosed with the combat model. The most STR has to do with how accurately you can swing a weapon is that it helps you stabilize and control it, but there's no way it should have a direct 1:1 correlation with Dex's impact on Attack rating (DEX should easily contribute at LEAST 2-3:1).

And I definitely agree that 2H weapons are WAY too slow.

It might not make sense from a logic stand point but it makes COMPLETE SENSE from a gameplay stand point. I've always loathed games that make dex the lone hit rate stat because it forces you to gimp your characters. You wind up splitting dex and strength so you don't miss everything in site and never come close to maximizing your damage potential. When you let strength and dex work the same way the player has much more freedom to maximize what they want to maximize as opposed to maximizing what the game requires them to.

If I want to go all in on strength I can do that, maximize my damage potential with melee weapons (doesn't work for bows), but will suffer from low defense. If I want to go all dex I cn do that have a great hit rate, high defense, and maximize my damage potential with daggers/short bows (I use the hotfix, as should anyone that plays on hard or nightmare as they explicitly stated it will not be changed for the official patch on those two difficulties) I can do that to.

Strength has usually been a gimped stat in these types of games providing only one benefit while dex provided 3. Dragon Age has made things fair. I'll take gameplay sense or logic any day of the week.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 décembre 2009 - 08:11 .

[Ambaryerno]

The better solution would be to not rely on the STR/DEX/INT/etc. system in the first place. It's dated and, as you point out, restricting, and really only particularly well-suited to PnP gaming where you have to manually track everything. QFG still has my favorite Stats system of any RPG I've ever played. It's much more robust, but more hands-off as well. And I like the "use it to raise it" stats building method much better than the "add a point" system.



For example, as your "Weapon Use" stat increased it increased both your damage AND to-hit. STR and AGIL added respective bonuses to both, but Weapon Use was the primary stat that governed them.

[sinosleep]

I'm not too big on use it to level it systems because of Oblivion. Great looking game and it's pretty fun, but because of the leveling system you couldn't just jump in and play if you didn't want a gimped character that was constantly getting beaten by run of mill scaled mobs because they're leveled optimally and you're not. You had to sit there and make absolutely certain not to accidentally level certain skills that would force you to level up with crap attribute bonuses and go out of your way to level skills you didn't give a crap about. I HATED that level up system.

[beauville]

Yes, but that problem can be easily modded out; there are numerous available to tweak the leveling any way you want so it's not a structural problem, just a bad implementation.

[sinosleep]

Which game are you referring to?

[beauville]

Oblivion.

[Ambaryerno]

QFG worked differently. There was no "level up" per se. You just improved your skills and stats (I know what you're talking about in Oblivion, I made it a point not to "sleep" unless I had advanced the right skills I wanted to level up. Although the "Mandatory Sleep" mods sure made that a challenge....). Monster encounters were semi-leveled, but it was based more on your actual stats than an arbitrary "level."

[DragonRageGT]

TeleProd wrote...

I got through the game on hard just fine with my 2h warrior main character. Well, I switched from normal about 1/3 in. Gimped? Maybe, but it worked and fit my character. I prefer not to min/max too much.

I go through the game on Nightmare just fine with my 2h warrior main char. Never switched diff. I did have a previous full Hard playthrough with the same char and experience counts a lot when rebuilding and going thru the game again.

I stick with my beserker/champion built and boy, do I feel like kicking some serious azz. And although I have some tubed combat movies of this NM run with a full melee party, for the most part of it I had a mage. I'm at level 18 now and way way far from the end and I'm kicking the mage out and going two 2handers (either Sten or Oghren), Alistair and Leliana, who is the only char I always had in the party, for rp reason. (And she too is kicking some serious azz now!)

I still have zero injuries, I only use indomitable and rally as sustained, I have a pretty decent hit rate and average damage with a max of 277 which gave me the Heavy Hitter achievement. I'm pretty happy with my attack speed too, as I don't use skills that slow it more and a mage with Haste might help those who want it faster too.

I'll tube more combat with this party setup when I have more material but so far, it's been cheesy. And I like it! Mo' Power!  And nothing decapitates as much as my 2 hander! That adds to the fun! (There should be another achievement for 2 handers... Decapitator! ... not sure there isn't a secret one though)

Modifié par RageGT, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:58 .

[Evilsod]

sinosleep wrote...

I'm not too big on use it to level it systems because of Oblivion. Great looking game and it's pretty fun, but because of the leveling system you couldn't just jump in and play if you didn't want a gimped character that was constantly getting beaten by run of mill scaled mobs because they're leveled optimally and you're not. You had to sit there and make absolutely certain not to accidentally level certain skills that would force you to level up with crap attribute bonuses and go out of your way to level skills you didn't give a crap about. I HATED that level up system.

There are mods that do that you know. I hate the default levelling system too for that same reason and luckily found a mod that changed just that. Attribute bonus' are chosen based on your chosen Major Skills and Specialisations (the mod made you choose a 2nd). Then of course you can use an item given to you by the mod to change these at will or as you pleased, but in the interest of being fair i'd only decrease/increase by the total i had but if you wanted you could set everything (including Luck) to +5. Not to mention if you wanted it to it would automatically level up spells and gear so you didn't have to **** around avoiding quests and not roleplaying if you didn't want to gimp the best items.

Anyway, on topic. Decided i'd try going through on a 2hander, the plan is to go get Oghren early on and have some fun with a 3 2 hander party of my Dwarven Main, Sten and Oghren with Morrigan around for Heal, CC and Telekinetic Weapons.