24 réponses à ce sujet

[cowoline]

I was just thinking, in DA II rivalry or friendship paths seems to influence some characters a great deal.

Fenris:

• F; 'forgives' magic and tries to move on.
• R; Stays very recentful of magic and is still haunted by his hatred.

Merrill:

• F; Keeps her mirror.
• R: Destroys the mirror.

Sebastian:

• F; wants to return to the Chantry.
• R; wants to take back Stark Haven.

Anders:

• F; is determined that blowing up the chantry was the right thing(seems to have better control of Justice)
• R: Regrets having destroyed the chantry (no control over Justice/ hints at suicide).

How do you think this will impact DAIII, if at all? Personally I hope it does have some effect, as it seemed to affect their personality in DA II, but I fear that they wont since if they appear they will only become cameos.

[TheBlackAdder13]

I think whether or not Merill's eluvian is in tact will likely have a a fairly big impact on save "imports" given the events of Witch Hunt. 

[Skye Evergreene]

I feel like it's a bit too much to ask for them to take every minute detail of origins and DA:2 and put them into DA:3. It screams for glitches and major plot problems. THe last thing we want is for DA:3 too push way past its limits and ultimately ruin the game.
Perhaps this can be hoped for future games, but for right now, its just too advanced to expect from them.

[Auintus]

Considering that the system pushes the character in one of two directions personality-wise, I don't think that implementation would be horrifically difficult. They'd just need to change a few lines to indicate whether Justice and Anders are one or at odds with one another, etc.
However, I don't think that they'll be bringing everyone back.

[DarkSpiral]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

I think whether or not Merill's eluvian is in tact will likely have a a fairly big impact on save "imports" given the events of Witch Hunt. 

I highly doubt it.  She never got the thing to work, remember?  The physical structure of the mirror is a piece of cake.  Getting the old magics to work again would be an entire order of magnitude more difficult.  Even the eluvian Morrigan used was so fragile she was only going to get it to work one more time.  She could have been lying, I suppose, but I can't see the purpose of such a lie.


OP: Since the characters are as likely to be quick cameos, or even simply passing mentions, I doubt the specifics of their personality will matter much.  Your new character will be stranger, not privy to the specifics.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 03 décembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[Sugao]

Plus there's the fact that DAII was played out as Varric's story, and so any differences in personality or plot can be handwaved away as "Varric let his personal opinions color the story, or just plain made that part up" (we know he skipped a lot, and we know he occasionally went so off-the-wall that Cassandra called him on it, so it's not at all unthinkable that he made up smaller lies that she didn't catch).

[nightscrawl]

cowoline wrote...

How do you think this will impact DAIII, if at all?

Based on the previous DAO import experience and the kinds of things that were used, I don't think that any of the examples you put forward will be imported. The only thing that has any chance is the breaking (or not) of the eluvian, because that could have direct impact on a side quest or DLC. Even the Sebastian content is iffy, since he himself is a DLC. Almost everything else that you mentioned has to do with feelings and motivations, which really won't be important at all unless we actually SEE those people in the game. Most of the import checks are yes/no this/that scenarios based on a specific choice that you made which would have certain results.

DarkSpiral wrote...

OP: Since the characters are as likely to be quick cameos, or even simply passing mentions, I doubt the specifics of their personality will matter much.  Your new character will be stranger, not privy to the specifics.

This exactly. For all the rage there was over how Anders had changed from DAA to DA2, most people did not seem to consider that that had no meaning for Hawke. Hawke never knew the DAA Anders, or Justice, so none of that was relevant.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:52 .

[Wulfram]

Hardening didn't have any effect

[Knight of Dane]

Yes it did

[fchopin]

As far as i am concerned they should throw the system in the bin.

[nightscrawl]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Yes it did

Importing a DAO save with hardened companions had an effect in DA2? Please elaborate.

[Wulfram]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Yes it did

Not in DA2.

Unless there was something specific to Alistair marrying Anora and Loghain being alive or something like that, I guess.

[brushyourteeth]

One of the biggest flukes with the rivalry system for me was how your actual opinions got thrown out the window depending on your level of friendship or rivalry with the companion.

If you rivaled Fenris, you MUST be pro-mage (even if you've expressed anti-mage feelings throughout the game)

If you're friendly with Sebastian, he thanks you for supporting his stay with the Chantry (even if all along you've been nagging him to take back Starkhaven, or trash-talked the Chantry to Rivain and back)

It made my interpersonal relationships very frustrating at times. I wanted to shout "Haven't you been listening to me?! I am the F***ING Champion of Kirkwall!!!!!"

.... so I'd like to see that improved on for DAIII.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:18 .

[Knight of Dane]

Wulfram wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Yes it did

Not in DA2.

Unless there was something specific to Alistair marrying Anora and Loghain being alive or something like that, I guess.

Exactly that.

Well, it's a minor effect, but it's there.

[Wulfram]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Exactly that.

Well, it's a minor effect, but it's there.

But it's not really a reference to the fact that he's been hardened, so much as a reference to a possible consequence of the hardening.  I'd guess it would be similar with imports from DA2 - no references to the actual friend/rival, but some of the more concrete effects might be mentioned

I guess if Anders ended up helping annull the tower, that could well come up if we met him, and that's dependant on rivalling him.  And maybe Merrill's mirror being broken or not.  Can't think of anything else that's strictly dependant on F/R.

[Auintus]

brushyourteeth wrote...

One of the biggest flukes with the rivalry system for me was how your actual opinions got thrown out the window depending on your level of friendship or rivalry with the companion.

If you rivaled Fenris, you MUST be pro-mage (even if you've expressed anti-mage feelings throughout the game)

If you're friendly with Sebastian, he thanks you for supporting his stay with the Chantry (even if all along you've been nagging him to take back Starkhaven, or trash-talked the Chantry to Rivain and back)

It made my interpersonal relationships very frustrating at times. I wanted to shout "Haven't you been listening to me?! I am the F***ING Champion of Kirkwall!!!!!"

.... so I'd like to see that improved on for DAIII.

Agreed. Expressing a combonation of agreement and disagreement with seperate beliefs of an ally(pro-mage, anti-slaver) was basically punished in DA2. It prevents attaining Questioning Beliefs quests and(on my first playthrough) prevented me from convincing Isabela to bring back the tome. Unless you meta-game and know who to bring along when. I believe someone said that the system would be improved in DA3, but I don't remember who, when, or any details.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I had a problem with the fact that I wanted to side with Sister Petrice in one playthrough and because I was not an aggressive Hawke, I could not do that. Just because I try to be a nice person most of the time doesn't mean that I will not want to be anti-qunari. I think I should get all the options no matter what my personality is. Now I am going through with an aggressive Hawke and I think she just comes across as *itch.

[FaWa]

but the hate****ing

[The Six Path of Pain]

Doubt it will have any affect at all...and by doubt I mean 99.9% sure

[nightcobra]

at least there's one more than minor, less than major effect in DA2 from hardening alistair, i got to have him as king married to anora and with loghain alive.

[snackrat]

cowoline wrote...
[*]Anders:

• F; is determined that blowing up the chantry was the right thing(seems to have better control of Justice)
• R: Regrets having destroyed the chantry (no control over Justice/ hints at suicide).

Don't agree with this part. If you side with Janders, and support them, Anders has no reason to question his behaviour. Justice and Anders are not truly separate, so at that point Anders is heavily driven by Justice - completely towards the end.
If you oppose Janders, however, you force them to provide reasoning for their actions - and Anders realises that sometimes he can't. Your disapproval leads to his self-reflection and thus his self-awareness.

If you rival him, he reguarly talks about fighting Justice. If you rival him, you can get him to side with the templars(!) in the final act to 'redeem' himself.
If you befriend him, he takes it as support and approval of his actions and ideals, and thus sees no reason to question what he is doing. He embraces Justice, making them Janders - one single entity with no real distinction.

Janders is wy better rivaled than befriended, in my opinion.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:31 .

[brushyourteeth]

I'd really rather have one pivotal incident affect the relationship in a friend/rivalry way (like Alistair's reaction to the way you handled the Redcliffe situation) permanently and have the rest of our relationship depend on approval/disapproval.

Like if you were reckless in general, Aveline would grow to flat-out dislike you. But if you handled her pivotal scenario favorably, she'd respect you as a general and colleague. If you were friendly all along and then handled her scenario disfavorably, she'd still be close to you but hold a grudge and bring it up again in dialogue. Impressing her all around would lead to you being bff's, while pissing her off in general as well as in her pivotal scenario would lead to her attacking you and/or leaving the party.

Sort of like a hardening/non-hardening, but with the players' feelings permanently changing with respect to you rather than their worldview in general.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:51 .

[esper]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I'd really rather have one pivotal incident affect the relationship in a friend/rivalry way (like Alistair's reaction to the way you handled the Redcliffe situation) permanently and have the rest of our relationship depend on approval/disapproval.

Like if you were reckless in general, Aveline would grow to flat-out dislike you. But if you handled her pivotal scenario favorably, she'd respect you as a general and colleague. If you were friendly all along and then handled her scenario disfavorably, she'd still be close to you but hold a grudge and bring it up again in dialogue. Impressing her all around would lead to you being bff's, while pissing her off in general as well as in her pivotal scenario would lead to her attacking you and/or leaving the party.

Sort of like a hardening/non-hardening, but with the players' feelings permanently changing with respect to you rather than their worldview in general.

Hardning was the worst thing I have ever seen in a game. I can with the knowlegde I have now of Leliana buying her doing it, because it is just exchanging one mask for the other.

But Alistair, no, I don't buy it and I don't ever want to see something like that again.

[brushyourteeth]

esper wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I'd really rather have one pivotal incident affect the relationship in a friend/rivalry way (like Alistair's reaction to the way you handled the Redcliffe situation) permanently and have the rest of our relationship depend on approval/disapproval.

Like if you were reckless in general, Aveline would grow to flat-out dislike you. But if you handled her pivotal scenario favorably, she'd respect you as a general and colleague. If you were friendly all along and then handled her scenario disfavorably, she'd still be close to you but hold a grudge and bring it up again in dialogue. Impressing her all around would lead to you being bff's, while pissing her off in general as well as in her pivotal scenario would lead to her attacking you and/or leaving the party.

Sort of like a hardening/non-hardening, but with the players' feelings permanently changing with respect to you rather than their worldview in general.

Hardning was the worst thing I have ever seen in a game. I can with the knowlegde I have now of Leliana buying her doing it, because it is just exchanging one mask for the other.

But Alistair, no, I don't buy it and I don't ever want to see something like that again.

Some explanation would be super useful --- "[that] was the worst" and "no" doesn't really tell the rest of us a whole lot about where you're coming from.