94 réponses à ce sujet

[Gorath Alpha]

Actually, there is always overlap. It has become difficult to revamp an entire generation all at once, although the current HD 5n00 generation's releases have been closer together than the case in several generations' worth. The HD 3870 wasn't dropped from production as soon as the HD 4870 was available. There was at least a two to three month overlap when both were being produced.

This time around, with the problems that the foundry was having with their 40 nm die wafers, the HD 4870 will have remained in production for about 4-5 months of overlap because the yields were comparatively low at first, so that retailers couldn't keep HD 5870s in stock, they sold as fast as they arrived from the factories.

Further, just because the chips will reach their EoL fairly soon now doesn't mean that the partners didn't build up inventory on them. Some partners will keep on making and selling HD 4870s longer than others will, because they anticipate being able to sell them longer.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

Actually, there is always overlap. It has become difficult to revamp an entire generation all at once, although the current HD 5n00 generation's releases have been closer together than the case in several generations' worth. The HD 3870 wasn't dropped from production as soon as the HD 4870 was available. There was at least a two to three month overlap when both were being produced.
This time around, with the problems that the foundry was having with their 40 nm die wafers, the HD 4870 will have remained in production for about 4-5 months of overlap because the yields were comparatively low at first, so that retailers couldn't keep HD 5870s in stock, they sold as fast as they arrived from the factories.
Further, just because the chips will reach their EoL fairly soon now doesn't mean that the partners didn't build up inventory on them. Some partners will keep on making and selling HD 4870s longer than others will, because they anticipate being able to sell them longer.

Cool!   So, maybe SAPPHIRE just simply threw in the towel early. Maybe the 4850 in general still has some shelf life left.

[Gorath Alpha]

Sapphire seems to have shipped more to Newegg, although now at $170, and there's another seller who has some, but for $210:

http://computers.pri...endorIds[]=3619

[Tyrax Lightning]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

Sapphire seems to have shipped more to Newegg, although now at $170, and there's another seller who has some, but for $210:
http://computers.pri...endorIds[]=3619

Checked the Link for the Graphics Card I got for my build that I got Bookmarked. Still unavailable. Too lazy to check the same card from other Brands.

[Zethell]

I'd still recommend a 5770 or 5750 over the 4870 4850 cards.



And why not?

They are better cards for the same price.

[Tyrax Lightning]

I hand-picked the SAPPHIRE 100258-1GHDMI Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card because it has a 256-bit Memory Interface without costing too much for me to afford. I don't wanna settle for a 128-bit Memory Interface. After I get my new puder built, one of my post build upgrades will be a new Monitor. I've found one that has a Max Resolution of 1920 x 1200! I question a 128-bit Memory Interface's ability to avoid bottle-necking & choking on such a load. I think we're getting to the point in Technology where a 256-bit Memory Interface should be the minimum considered for that Stat.

Check this one out! If only I was Bill Gates... But seriously, Holy Buggers!!!

SAPPHIRE 100280OCSR Radeon HD 5970 (Hemlock) 2GB 512 (256 x 2)-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Dual GPU Onboard CrossFire Video Card w/ Eyefinity

I don't understand why this Graphics Card choice doesn't have a HDMI Port, but still, This Card is so powerful, my new puder build can't possibly handle it. Maybe next build several years from now.

Modifié par Tyrax Lightning, 28 février 2010 - 03:19 .

[Zethell]

Gez, cant remember how long it has been.. 3 months?
Still no fix.. I'd love to see some statistics on how many 3870 cards this game f*ed up.

All hope is lost, never buying another BioWare game again, EVER.
I hope piracy bites you in the ass for all your future games.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Zethell wrote...

Gez, cant remember how long it has been.. 3 months?
Still no fix.. I'd love to see some statistics on how many 3870 cards this game f*ed up.

All hope is lost, never buying another BioWare game again, EVER.
I hope piracy bites you in the ass for all your future games.

I'm still undecided on Mass Effect 1 & 2. I'm postponing that decision until I get my new puder up & running & play the buggers outta DA:O. I hope EA didn't screw up too much stuff, but one things for sure, i'm still worried about if EAs greed is gonna destroy the entire gaming world... One can't help but to wonder if they give a bugger about games at all, or if they only view us as livestock with games as the feed...

[Zethell]

http://megagames.com...-graphics-cards



At least Blizzard admits it, BioWare should learn from them.

[Gorath Alpha]

Zethell wrote...

http://megagames.com...-graphics-cards

At least Blizzard admits it, BioWare should learn from them.

As always, no matter that Blizzard chooses to crawfish about it, bad hardware design is at fault in 99.9% of cases when hardware doesn't include its own protections against suffering from heat damage.   Blizzard is wrong to worry about the deluded (pick a word for poorly educated noob & insert)  who believe otherwise. 

http://social.biowar...8/index/340782 

I have read the article about Blizzard's ridiculous cave-in at AnandTech, and the vast majority of the comments are disbelief, because it's not the game's "fault" at all.  Fallout 3 does exact;y the same thing in small rooms, and most shooters have the same lack of any frame rate limitation.  There should be no need for any with aproperly designed video card. 

Zethell wrote...

Well, just got my other graphics card, and now the game works.  Funny huh?

Who would of had known that it was actually a problem with the game!  And any bioware employes better make sure that i dont get my hands on them.  Even i wouldnt know what horrifying things i'd do.

Balderdash!

I use ATI Tray Tools to place the GPU Temps inside the corner of all of my games' screens.  My HD 3870 replaced a Radeon X1950 Pro that wasn't causing any particular problems, but hadn't seemed very well matched to my largest (and oldest) CRT display.  It works fine (the X1950 Pro) with a smaller LCD screen, though. 

It's not a special model or overclocked model of the HD 3870.  It isn't in any kind of special enclosure (just an Elite from Cooler Master).  The CPU never seems to go above 40 Celcius, although the GPU fan can get noisy in some situations (the case sits to my immediate right side, on a table that makes an "L" with my computer desk, so the access panel fan and CPU fan are fairly close to me.)

I was expecting more problems than I actually experienced with it.  It's not my primary game playing system any more (it only has an X2 4600 CPU), these days.

(Quoting myself from earlier in the thread)  Created 6 months ago
"This forum simply isn't intended as any kind of clearing house for EA's support to work through, and Bioware's tech people just don't come in here (AFAIK, that's the way it always is after a Bioware game is released). "

Actually. compared to NWN2, in particular, Bioware's occasional forays into this forum have been "fairly frequent", after all. 

Zethell wrote...

4850 = 5750.
4870 = 5770.

The prices are just about the same, but the 5000 series has extra support for dx11 and shader model 5.0

(Neither of which will matter during the useful lifetimes of any of the four cards.

Now, as to the various misinformation above, here is the actual side by side comparisons.  Here is the HD 4850, which is a proper High End card with a 256 bit memory system readily able to pass 512 MBs back and forth to games all of the time, and even 1 GB occasionally.

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

The HD 5750 is only a Medium card, admittedly at the upper end of Medium, but still has only a 128 bit memory system, which is inadequate for high resolutions. 

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

The same disparity in performance applies to the second pair.

Zethell wrote...

I'd still recommend a 5770 or 5750 over the 4870 4850 cards.

And why not?
They are better cards for the same price.

. . and you are (were) still wrong.

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 04 août 2010 - 07:08 .

[Cessaffemt]

I know I haven't posted here before, I'm just sad to say that I never really got that far in dragon age:origins. I thought oh okay I have a 3870 and 3870s have a really big problem with dragon age so I'll upgrade to a 5770 since I was planning on getting one anyways. I'm pleased with the 5770s performance so far in general with games, but it still hasn't stopped from giving me the no signal error -

The only difference is that the no signal error takes longer to happen on the 5770 than the 3870.

I have a phenom 9600 with the tlb errata disabled via software (as vista puts the fix in on startup)
I have the steam version of the collectors edition of dragon age: origins.
I have all associated dlc with my copy of the game installed.

I have to admit I was a little shaken by the instability issues of this game as opposed to the mass effect games that I've never ever had any problem with, but if there's something else I can do other than buying different hardware I'd probably be willing to try it.

The no signal error, as with most users, happens in ostregar. With the 3870 I get a no signal error only a few seconds after finishing loading my saved game. With the 5770 I was able walk around for a while, pause the game, go into steam community, look around into the vista of ostregar and then get the no signal error. I believe it might have something to do with looking out onto the land scape, but I haven't played the game enough to know (don't want to hurt a new card).

Well, if anyone with similar hardware was able to get the game running, let me know what you did.

Edit: I tested again, setting the affinity to Core 0 and running in window mode/turning off frame buffer effects/vsync/AA. Was able to play for about 10-15 minutes then got the no signal error again.

Edit again: aaaand now Mass Effect 2, Starcraft 2, and essentially any game I have that even vaguely applies to gpus made since 2007 will cause a no signal error. time to RMA.

Modifié par Cessaffemt, 03 août 2010 - 11:08 .

[Zethell]

Gorath, if you would of had read the news post, you'd see the real problem wasnt poor hardware.

The game rendered the frame over and over again, too many times when it was idle.



If the game would of have had a framelimiter (which you can also read in the post)

This problem wouldnt occur.



This isnt for X1950 or any other ATi card than the HD3870.

The many, MANY fried HD3870 proves the problem lies with the game.

Poor coding, not poor hardware.



Huh, you show nothing but hardware specifications, but no actual performance comparrison.

While i see the HD5770 as a "low" end card, out of the greater mid and high end cards.

I still believe it beats the 4870.



I max out every game thrown at me, with at LEAST a smooth 50 FPS @ 1680x1050.

It's very suitable for high screen & texture resolution if you have the 1gb memory, card.



Thou, this thread isnt about which card is the better/worse.

I was simply suggesting the 5770, since the 4870 is out of production and replaced by the HD5770.

Dont bring this up again, it's off topic.

[Zethell]

Cessaffemt wrote...

I know I haven't posted here before, I'm just sad to say that I never really got that far in dragon age:origins. I thought oh okay I have a 3870 and 3870s have a really big problem with dragon age so I'll upgrade to a 5770 since I was planning on getting one anyways. I'm pleased with the 5770s performance so far in general with games, but it still hasn't stopped from giving me the no signal error -

The only difference is that the no signal error takes longer to happen on the 5770 than the 3870.

I have a phenom 9600 with the tlb errata disabled via software (as vista puts the fix in on startup)
I have the steam version of the collectors edition of dragon age: origins.
I have all associated dlc with my copy of the game installed.

I have to admit I was a little shaken by the instability issues of this game as opposed to the mass effect games that I've never ever had any problem with, but if there's something else I can do other than buying different hardware I'd probably be willing to try it.

The no signal error, as with most users, happens in ostregar. With the 3870 I get a no signal error only a few seconds after finishing loading my saved game. With the 5770 I was able walk around for a while, pause the game, go into steam community, look around into the vista of ostregar and then get the no signal error. I believe it might have something to do with looking out onto the land scape, but I haven't played the game enough to know (don't want to hurt a new card).

Well, if anyone with similar hardware was able to get the game running, let me know what you did.

Edit: I tested again, setting the affinity to Core 0 and running in window mode/turning off frame buffer effects/vsync/AA. Was able to play for about 10-15 minutes then got the no signal error again.

Edit again: aaaand now Mass Effect 2, Starcraft 2, and essentially any game I have that even vaguely applies to gpus made since 2007 will cause a no signal error. time to RMA.

Damn, it fried your HD5770?
Maybe i should stop playing on mine.. :S

Anyways, i'v been playing on the "Powercolor HD5770 1gb GDDR5 PLAY!" card.
Seems to work fine, played a few hours yesterday, no problems..
But now i'm not gonna risk it..

Good luck with the RMA, obviously BW wont do **** for us who's affected.

[Cessaffemt]

Zethell, could you give your hardware specifications? For all I know my experience could be a total fluke - dragon age was the first game I tested with my sapphire 5770. I was all happy and excited because I was able to play for a little while then it went kapoof and a no signal error.



I now have a phenom ii 965 instead of a phenom 9600 for my cpu, but now I'm back to using my 3870, although it's been acting strange ever since I tried to play dragon age. Left4Dead2 now causes the gpu to run near full load on mediocre settings. In retrospect, I wish I had never even had a taste of the game so I could say it was buggy as all get out and just give up instead of having an almost flawless (the tutorial tells me to equip dlc items that I do not meet the requirements for) experience in the origin story for my character and then to play around in ostregar for a little while, enjoying the view and everything. Saving the game and powering down for the day.



Then loading the aforementioned save game in ostregar to meet a black screen 5-10 seconds after loading and hear fans speeding up. Oh well, I guess this is a textbook example of downloaded games as opposed to retail bought ones.

[Zethell]

Cessaffemt wrote...

Zethell, could you give your hardware specifications? For all I know my experience could be a total fluke - dragon age was the first game I tested with my sapphire 5770. I was all happy and excited because I was able to play for a little while then it went kapoof and a no signal error.

I now have a phenom ii 965 instead of a phenom 9600 for my cpu, but now I'm back to using my 3870, although it's been acting strange ever since I tried to play dragon age. Left4Dead2 now causes the gpu to run near full load on mediocre settings. In retrospect, I wish I had never even had a taste of the game so I could say it was buggy as all get out and just give up instead of having an almost flawless (the tutorial tells me to equip dlc items that I do not meet the requirements for) experience in the origin story for my character and then to play around in ostregar for a little while, enjoying the view and everything. Saving the game and powering down for the day.

Then loading the aforementioned save game in ostregar to meet a black screen 5-10 seconds after loading and hear fans speeding up. Oh well, I guess this is a textbook example of downloaded games as opposed to retail bought ones.

AMD Phenom2 x4 940 2.8ghz, clocked to 3.0 atm.
2x2048 DDR2 RAM, set at 800mhz.
PowerColor ATi Radeon HD 5770 1024GDDR5 PLAY!
Running Windows 7 Ultimate.

Since this is doing the same thing that SC2 is doing (burning the memory), and underclocking helps..
Then i bet it's the same problem as SC2 had, it renders the frames way too much, and an FPS limiter should help..

[Cessaffemt]

Zethell - I would like to retract my statement regarding dragon age and my 5770 that I RMAd. The problem with the 5770 was unrelated to the game. Apparently the one I got used a different 6 pin PCI-E connector than the one that has worked for previous cards. So if Dragon age: origins works fine for you on the 5770, go right ahead, you should have no problem.



Although, to be safe, what settings do you have dragon age on?



My hardware is now as follows:

AMD Phenom 2 x4 965 3.4ghz

4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM

Sapphire 5770

Running Windows Vista Ultimate x64

[Nathan Willis]

Zethell wrote...

http://megagames.com...-graphics-cards

At least Blizzard admits it, BioWare should learn from them.

WE ADMIT NOTHING!!! RAARRRRRrr...

...but seriously, the problem that Blizzard was reporting is an interesting one and I've (prior to reading this thread) forwarded that along to the devs to make sure that our games don't suffer from something similar in the future or otherwise.

We have not encountered that particular problem in-house at all, even when the game has been left running (in some cases!) over the weekend on our menu screens, idling in-game, etcetera. Our systems primarily used for testing are pretty middle-of-the-road by today's standards, no aftermarket cooling, not top of the line...

As Gorath has alluded to, we don't really have control over specific system builds, cooling, whether or not your case is dusty, or in some cases of certain graphics card cooling solutions have failed... the list goes on and on. That doesn't mean that we don't make an honest effort to try and accomodate people with heat issues, of course. We want people to be able to play our game! I would hope that would go without saying. It's not like there's an evil man in charge of hardware testing that's all, "Hmm.. let's test every combination EXCEPT for these 5! Muahahah!".

What I can tell you is that the 3870 is one of the reference cards that we did test DA:O on prior to release, and we had no issues with it. I recognize that some people have had problems, and I've personally catalogued that among other issues to forward along to the nice devs that fix things like this -- but if the problem is solely hardware related (as it would seem to be, ESPECIALLY if a fix is to underclock your video card) then there's not much we can do.

[Balder84]

ah! I'm sorry i didn't see this sooner, thanks for taking the time to read this thread Nathan! ....uh 29 days ago, well if you do return and read this I should like to say that I now have replaced my 3870 with a 5870 and have reduced the heat in my system but still getting random crashes - dragonage.exe errors and so far one system freeze, despite dragon age running with perfect frame rate and my PC hardly working up a sweat.......will stability for this game be fixed?........you know so I can finally finish it for the first time!! (origins that is)

[ebear]

Here's hoping for a fix still? **Raises glass** Cheers

[Gorath Alpha]

Exactly as was true when badly designed video cards overheated in the other (Blizzard's) game, it's just never software that affects the poor quality of a given cooling solution.  Software DOES NOT damage hardware.  It can't.  What can happen is that standards are ignored.  My own HD 3870 never had a lick of trouble, but many of them apparently have some lower quality parts than my own does, and cannot run this game at the reference core speeds and RAM speeds as a result, but downclocking just slightly fixes even that situation. 

Now, this message thread is very old, and should not have been recycled.  Anyone with some type of problem who cannot find a newer reference than this should write a brand new message, and follow the proper reporting procedure. 

The forum's own Search was created as a broken, practically useless bad excuse, and has never been improved.  Either Google or Yahoo will work just fine.  Add the site: redirector and find whatever archives you need:

site:social.bioware.com

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 19 mai 2011 - 09:24 .