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[NasreddinHodja]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

In Exile wrote...

The acts are all related, becasue from Cassandra's POV they're all a scheme, but from Hawke's POV they were just unrelated experiences that led to wrong-place, wrong-time.

But we are playing from Hawke's POV as intended by BioWare. Not Cassandra. Cassandra is not meant to be a PC. I said it before it was mistake for BioWare to make Hawke a PC if the point of the story is about wanting to figure out what's Hawke been up to for course 10 years. 

Except that's not the point.

While the narrative of the game reveals that Cassandra's notion of what happened is false regardless of anything we do, that's not what we're really intended to control.  The proof of this is we can't decide to make it play out so that Cassandra's assumptions are correct.  Yet Hawke's actions are part of history, Varric's account is simply a more accurate retelling of it.

What's up to us - and this is the point - is the why.   There's a persistent disconnect between some of DA2's biggest admirers and some of its biggest critics who preferred DAO on the forums, and it's revealed in this subtle difference of opinion over the nature of choice in both games:

The refrain of the latter group laments the reduction in "choices that matter" from DAO to DA2.  They cite things like Bhelan/Harrowmont, or the boon, or whatever.  It's a list of whats.  What did the Warden do?  DAO cares deeply about what you choose to do, and tells you all about what you did in epilogue cards at the end of the story.  DAO is a game of whats.  That has an appeal, no question.  The Warden's reasons for doing any of what he/she does don't matter to anyone, and that has the benefit of allowing players to imagine whatever motivation they want as the game won't really endeavor to contradict them by actively asking them to explain themselves.

Overall DA2 is not a game of whats.  The whats already happened.  Cassandra learns about them through Varric, and the big picture stuff never really changes all that much, because Hawke is in the context of DA2's narrative a historical figure and the setting is effectively in past tense.  What DA2 is, and what most of its choices offered are, is a game of whys.  Without getting sidetracked into a discussion of paraphrases or voiced protagonists, DA2 asks your character's opinion on things a lot and tracks/responds to them in a meaningful way.  It influences how your companions feel about you, and their own motivations for behaving the way they do.   That isn't to say it did this perfectly, but that's a different post.

If there's one aspect of DA2's marketing that was more accurate than anyone I think anticipated, it was the question: "Who is the Champion of Kirkwall?"  

The answer is:  "That's completely up to you."

Thank you for this insightful comment.  

Also, I absolutely love your avatar pic.

[Direwolf0294]

krul2k wrote...

errrrr mmmmm i like talking wallpaper

If I'm remembering the video right, which I can't watch right now to confirm, talking wallpaper was about characters talking about stuff like the weather, how are the kids etc, right? 

If that's the case, I also like talking wallpaper and feel not enough stories use it. I'd go as far as to say character development suffers from a lack of it. So many stories, be they in games, books, TV or film, only have the characters speak dialogue that's relevant to the larger plot or that's super dark and serious. "We have to stop the big bad", "how are we going to stop the big bad?", <insert character here> is going to blow our chances of stopping the big bad because of their daddy issues" etc. Characters almost never just simply talk to each other, and if characters are incapable of having normal conversations with each other and just talking about stuff than they're not very indepth characters.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

DA:O has the plot of a movie. It's basically an epic fantasy film, you know just enough the characters to care about them and understand the basics of how their world works. There is nothing wrong with that.

DA2 was not a movie it was a TV show it terms of it's story, characters, locations and overarching plot lines. If DA2 wasn't rushed through and the time and money was given to the game it could have easily blew DA:O out of the water and set a new high standard in terms of story and characters in video games. Too me the real tragedy of DA2 is not that it was rushed, is that never reached even half of it's true potentional.  

I believe there is actually a truly great game in the foundation of DA2's story and characters, but it just needs a serious remake with a lot more time and money to reach it's true potentional.  

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[Twisted Path]

When he brought up "repetitiousness" I immediately thought of Avalene's introduction in DA2.

"You will not have him!" *kills some darkspawn then leans over her wounded husband.* "They will not have you!" "I stand for all of us!" "You'll have to get through me before anyone else."

Yes, we GET IT. Your theme is being a protector.

[StElmo]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

DA:O has the plot of a movie. It's basically an epic fantasy film, you know just enough the characters to care about them and understand the basics of how their world works. There is nothing wrong with that.

DA2 was not a movie it was a TV show it terms of it's story, characters, locations and overarching plot lines. If DA2 wasn't rushed through and the time and money was given to the game it could have easily blew DA:O out of the water and set a new high standard in terms of story and characters in video games. Too me the real tragedy of DA2 is not that it was rushed, is that never reached even half of it's true potentional.  

I believe there is actually a truly great game in the foundation of DA2's story and characters, but it just needs a serious remake with a lot more time and money to reach it's true potentional.  

Agreed. TV is the most interesting passive medium anyway. Film has a lot fewer "risks" taken these days sadly.

[StElmo]

Twisted Path wrote...

When he brought up "repetitiousness" I immediately thought of Avalene's introduction in DA2.

"You will not have him!" *kills some darkspawn then leans over her wounded husband.* "They will not have you!" "I stand for all of us!" "You'll have to get through me before anyone else."

Yes, we GET IT. Your theme is being a protector.

indeed Aveline could have used more dynamism in her dialogue.

[DarkSpiral]

StElmo wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

When he brought up "repetitiousness" I immediately thought of Avalene's introduction in DA2.

"You will not have him!" *kills some darkspawn then leans over her wounded husband.* "They will not have you!" "I stand for all of us!" "You'll have to get through me before anyone else."

Yes, we GET IT. Your theme is being a protector.

indeed Aveline could have used more dynamism in her dialogue.

While I am a fan of Aveline, and would like to see more women fill the role she had in DA2, I have to agree.  Even the growth as a persom she experiences (if Hawke lends a helping hand) after marrying Donnic, it all takes place offscreen.  We hear about the results, but see very little change.

However, I have to point out that Fenris has the same problem.  So does Merrill, and Sebastian.  Varric too, to a degree, though he's easily the most grounded of the companions, so in his case its less of a glaring issue.

Wierd that the biggesty change in personality we see is Anders.  He just keeps getting worse as the years go by.  I blame the voice in his head.  That and the fact he was a bit of a boy in a man's body, even back in Awakenings.