262 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Panda]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

MuKen wrote...

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

Ironically, I tried the strategy you just mentioned (aggressively-specced stim packs and whatnot) and failed miserably at it.  I do much better with a hit-and-run playstyle, with a build I figured out for myself.  My Ghost is a lot of things, but he's not a tank, and I'm way more comfortable that way.

You know what was an actual breeze for me when I first started playing?  Novaguard.  I'm serious.  I dominated with that thing, even moreso when I unlocked the Wraith.  Got it working on Gold, even (and still play it occasionally, but not very often because I know what it's like to share the map with a Novaguard and sweet Jesus my poor teammates I am so sorry).

Moral of the story: Easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.  Not saying the Ghost isn't a top-tier kit, but it's not so much better than everyone else that it's absurd.  You claim it's an auto-win button, but my own examples prove otherwise.

PS: I have alibis if you don't believe me about the Novaguard thing.

I do not doubt you. I only wish that I could have had the honor of actually seeing a decent novaguard, or even a novaguard for that matter. I haven't seen one for months.

[Kyerea]

BSN's Logic In a Nutshell

Post-Earth DLC, everyone and their grandmother accuses BW of being xenophobic, and that there needs to be more powerful Turians included in the multiplayer. Seeing as there were a.) no rare Turians, b.) could not dodge in any capacity and c.) needed to be more durable.

So, BioWare rectifies this egregious mistake and releases two Spec-Op Turians that are arguably the second most durable characters in the game, coupled with propulsion packs for superb mobility in all situations and a customized Tactical Cloak that confers a large damage bonus to ARs for the Infiltator variant and a customized, unlimited range Vanguard charge for the Soldier variant that culminates with a custom racial spec which grants superb weapon proficiencies that synergize with a wonderfully-effective heavy melee.

BSN's response? B1tch and complain it's OP. Good job guys, I'm proud of you.

Modifié par Kyerea, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

MuKen wrote...

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

Ironically, I tried the strategy you just mentioned (aggressively-specced stim packs and whatnot) and failed miserably at it.  I do much better with a hit-and-run playstyle, with a build I figured out for myself.  My Ghost is a lot of things, but he's not a tank, and I'm way more comfortable that way.

You know what was an actual breeze for me when I first started playing?  Novaguard.  I'm serious.  I dominated with that thing, even moreso when I unlocked the Wraith.  Got it working on Gold, even (and still play it occasionally, but not very often because I know what it's like to share the map with a Novaguard and sweet Jesus my poor teammates I am so sorry).

Moral of the story: Easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.  Not saying the Ghost isn't a top-tier kit, but it's not so much better than everyone else that it's absurd.  You claim it's an auto-win button, but my own examples prove otherwise.

PS: I have alibis if you don't believe me about the Novaguard thing.

I will always welcome a competent Novaguard.

[MuKen]

"The Kroguard can do it too."

And as I said, the Kroguard bears looking at also.  Gold should not be doable in such a manner, that's my point.   Although he at least doesn't stack on amazing weapons bonuses and cloak utility.  But this thread isn't here to talk about the Kroguard.

"You did play with some skill."

Maybe I 'reacted' well or didn't aim badly 'enough', or whatever, but the point was that I did not pay a penalty for stupid mistakes. I did everything that should get you killed except take grapples and sync kills, which would get any class killed regardless. The point was that with a very mindless tactic (stim every 9 seconds), I was protected from all errors.

@AdmiralCheez, I'm curious, exactly what went wrong?

@Kyerea, I wasn't one of those people, so I don't see the irony.

Modifié par MuKen, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:08 .

[TommyNg]

Ghost is my least use character as he just recycle old power ,havoc should be the main character i think , my guess is the jetpack and stim pack are designed for havoc , simply nerf ghost buff havoc will make it fun.

[bogsters23]

i know how good the ghost is. i only use it on platinum occasionally coz i've finished my council operative challenge.

[EyeOfHera]

Yes, nerf something in a co-op game. That makes perfect sense.

You one of those people that ragequit when they don't have the highest score?

[COLZ7R]

Now go around random pugs, see how many have high level harriers with top level consumables. Not many people i bet. Now follow the avarage joe around in a gold/silver match and watch them STILL DIE! Strange how most of them aint figured out the tgi is a "i win" button that requires no skill.
Something i have noticed on these boards is people cannot figure out that other people may not be as"skilled" as them.
Real world example. I ride sportsbikes all the time, do trackdays and am quite fast, so i should be able to pick anybody else who can ride a bike, put them on my bike and be as fast as me. Aint gonna happen! Most who tryed goin as fast would crash and burn within a lap.
Lesson..... skill is the single most important factor, sure with top level kit you might get away with it for a short time, but you will screw up in the end

[Clearly Balkan]

billy the squid wrote...

MuKen wrote...

youtu.be/-NzMtOODx3M

I set out to play the TGI in the dumbest way possible on a Gold PUG.

Throughout this match, I did not ever take cover, not even soft cover.  I made no attempt to avoid any incoming fire, and did not dodge or run except to get ammo or when there were no enemies around.  The only defensive action I took was to walk backwards from enemies that could instakill or grab or melee me.  I basically face-tanked all attacks with his ridiculous stim-packs.

Offensively, I never scoped in or aimed for any heads.  I just hip-fired in the general direction of the torso of everything in sight while cycling cloak and overload.

The results:
No deaths
No consumables used
Top Score
22 minute clear time

It was a reasonable clear time, my teammates were not bad.  But the TGI is clearly too powerful..

You used stim packs for a damage boost? .... that's op nerf it.
Harrier is an OP assault rifle... nerf it, it takes no skill
PPR is OP 
TGI IS OP.... it's a crutch and lets other "scrubs" beat me nerf it.
The Kroguard is OP it's too Tanky nerf it
Soldiers with Adrenaline rush do more damage... nerf it.
GI does more damage.... nerf it.
Geth Trooper can tank more better and than a TGI, has a wall hack and does more damage.... nerf it.
Vorcha health regen is OP, it's too quick.... nerf it.
Flamethrower is OP.... nerf it.
Fury Annihalation field and Dark channel spam is op, everyone runs around blowing stuff up before me.... nerf it.
Turian Sol. Can kill a brute faster than an TGI it's OP.... nerf it.
Why can slayers teleport and spam Phase disruptor, it's OP..... nerf it.
Demolisher has too many grenades and spams it.... nerf it.
Destroyer is too good with Assault rifles it's easy mode .... nerf it.

Are you sensing the same pattern that I am?

Oh yes and I noticed that you didn't show whether you were using any equipment, or gear and you are using and EB and probably a pen. mod vs the easiest faction on Gold. But the TGI is OP, right, okay.

Edit:

Sorry looks like you're using grenade capacity gear.... Haha, no wonder you never ran out of stim packs. The only way you'd run out is if you have a fit and press the LT too many times.

Edit: 

By the look of the Harrier's ammo capacity you are using a higher level Harrier, if I remember the weapon's reserve ammo number correctly.

[Cyrax86]

@MuKen

banshees and brutes primarily deal damage through melee or their OHK, all you have to do is stay out of its melee/OHK range and they'll rarely kill you.

Go into a PUG match against the Geth or Collectors, and walk up to a Prime/Praetorian and play the same way you did against the Reapers

[ISeeRainbows]

Cyrax86 wrote...

@MuKen

banshees and brutes primarily deal damage through melee or their OHK, all you have to do is stay out of its melee/OHK range and they'll rarely kill you.

Go into a PUG match against the Geth or Collectors, and walk up to a Prime/Praetorian and play the same way you did against the Reapers

Well, yeah. Collectors much harder and geth have the highest damage output in the game among enemies (imo) and its paired with stunlock, you dont always have a chance to press a life saver stim in time. Reapers are the easiest faction so far.

[Void_Macabre]

In the right hands any kit is op.

[jaydubs67]

I wonder what the devs will make of this. If they see it. You've got a point? Working as intended? Wait until the next dlc (conspiracy theory version)?

[N-Seven]

Kyerea wrote...

BSN's Logic In a Nutshell

Post-Earth DLC, everyone and their grandmother accuses BW of being xenophobic, and that there needs to be more powerful Turians included in the multiplayer. Seeing as there were a.) no rare Turians, b.) could not dodge in any capacity and c.) needed to be more durable.

So, BioWare rectifies this egregious mistake and releases two Spec-Op Turians that are arguably the second most durable characters in the game, coupled with propulsion packs for superb mobility in all situations and a customized Tactical Cloak that confers a large damage bonus to ARs for the Infiltator variant and a customized, unlimited range Vanguard charge for the Soldier variant that culminates with a custom racial spec which grants superb weapon proficiencies that synergize with a wonderfully-effective heavy melee.

BSN's response? B1tch and complain it's OP. Good job guys, I'm proud of you.

Slow, non-sarcastic clapping.

[helloesposito]

This video doesn't prove anything. How do you have your character built? It looks like you have a grenade capacity to add stimpaks. Did you use any power, shield, or weapon bonuses too? You should have gone in with no equipment and also shown us that. If you build your dude as a tank, then he'll be a tank. Spamming overload when you know it stuns enemies then also using one of the strongest, most reliable guns (Harrier) and saying OP?

YOU'RE WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME

[Xaijin]

Gold should not be doable in such a manner, that's my point.

Pretty sure you can go hump yourself out a window if you intend to tell me HOW to play the game and with what vehicles of implementation. Your premise is completely arrogant. There is exactly nothing that dictates how the game should be approached and the fact that heavy shield/heavy damage units exist pretty much chunks your entire premise out.

Not only is it defenestrated by other MP classes, but it's pretty much rejected by the entirety of ME's mechanics throughout all three games. Wrex had a mechanic pretty much exact to what stimpacks do, and so did Grunt, so did Legion and EDI and James and by adopting tech armor and geth shield boost, so did Shepard.

Yes, the Ghost's defensive options are ridiculously strong, but we're also still waiting on that Collectors Hydra or Condor solo that you seem unable to produce, and it's probably pretty clear as to why.

[Cyonan]

Xaijin wrote...
Pretty sure you can go hump yourself out a window if you intend to tell me HOW to play the game and with what vehicles of implementation. Your premise is completely arrogant. There is exactly nothing that dictates how the game should be approached and the fact that heavy shield/heavy damage units exist pretty much chunks your entire premise out.

Not only is it defenestrated by other MP classes, but it's pretty much rejected by the entirety of ME's mechanics throughout all three games. Wrex had a mechanic pretty much exact to what stimpacks do, and so did Grunt, so did Legion and EDI and James and by adopting tech armor and geth shield boost, so did Shepard.

Yes, the Ghost's defensive options are ridiculously strong, but we're also still waiting on that Collectors Hydra or Condor solo that you seem unable to produce, and it's probably pretty clear as to why.

This community comes up with the silliest "tests" for if things are overpowered or not, only matched by how silly it is for the OP to claim his video proves anything.

Though the argument is irrelevant at this point, as Stim Packs are getting nerfed tomorrow.

[Xaijin]

Oh I think using the same technique on either map against a faction that relies of volume of fire would yield pretty convincing results without the need for any aggregate or combined composite testing, and also conveniently matches the hyperbole so vigorously to the original premise ****** for tat.

Modifié par Xaijin, 04 décembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[HolyAvenger]

I actually think that a "crutch" or easy to use kit or two is good to let people transition to gold or plat from lower difficulties. I know I started playing plat regularly with my infiltrators (TGI included) and then got used to it and now I use a wide variety of kits and even some pretty unusual builds on that difficulty.

[HydroFlame20]

Ares Caesar wrote...

So you use one of the best classes, with one of the best weapons for that class, slap on an ammo power, and to top it off you use a grenade increasing gear (Warfighter 5?)... and you're somehow surprised at the end result being anything less than bad@s$?

There are plenty of setups in this game that given the right combination of things is "overpowered"... quite frankly I dont know why people care so much about whether or not something is "OP" because you dont have to use it, and you dont have to play with anyone who does if you dont want to.

This just screams of "DUH!"

I agree with everything you just said and more so I know bioware says the same thing idk I just think screaming a kit is op when you yourself set it up like that just makes you look immature whats gonna happen if and when the SPECTRE kits come along like come on now. <_<

[Eelectrica]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I actually think that a "crutch" or easy to use kit or two is good to let people transition to gold or plat from lower difficulties. I know I started playing plat regularly with my infiltrators (TGI included) and then got used to it and now I use a wide variety of kits and even some pretty unusual builds on that difficulty.

Very true.
For me kroguard was my ticket to stepping up to silver then gold. The biggest thing I think is getting used to the wave composition and having to deal with more and more boss units.

Playing the same character over and over gets boring I think. So once we get ourselves used to what we're facing, it's easier to branch out and try other characters on the harder levels instead of sticking to the same one.

It's also good  for some of us to have a 'go to' character to break out of a form slump. Have a few bad matches, switch to a comfortable character, have a few good matches again, and go from there.

But this is BSN - if we can't solo gold with that ever so popular 0/0/0/0/0 Drell adept build and a shuriken we're horrible players right?

Modifié par Eelectrica, 04 décembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Pee Jae]

He's not OP. I tried a Gold solo last night with him and didn't make it past wave 4/Geth/Reactor. Granted, I'm not a legend on BSN (or anywhere else for that matter), I'd call myself slightly above average, but that did not go well.

Had Cyclonic Mod 4, Warfighter V, Disruptor Ammo 4 (good for stunning Geth) Assault Rifle Amp 3, Cerberus Harrier, did not spec into Overload and still... still got my butt handed to me. End the ****ing nerfs already.

[Hantaksk]

Call in for nerfs or not, superman turian is getting the nerf hammer, so QQ superb infiltrator users QQ.

and @t_skwel if you where using that equipment and that character im afraid is not the character the guilty of that. you certainly are NOT "above average"

[Kittstalkur]

Late to the party, but.

>using a Harrier
>using a Harrier X
>Grenade Capacity 5
>Reapers
>Gold

So basically, you set out to prove that with ideal circumstances and equipment, this class can be optimized to be extremely tanky. You know, I've done the same thing with a Volus Engineer against Reapers. I guess Volus are overpowered too.

This is also hardly proof of anything except that Reapers aren't a threat at range. Cerberus, Collectors, and especially Geth would punish you very hard for these particular tactics.