262 réponses à ce sujet

[ToaOrka]

It's decent if you know what you're doing in the slightest degree, but still easily outclassed by people that really know what they're doing. A legitimate Sniper Infiltrator, the Geth or Quarian Female for instance, will kill enemies far faster than a Harrier will if you put a good Sniper* on them, you can make the Harrier as strong as you want to.

*Good Snipers: Widow, Black Widow, Javelin, Viper, Valiant, Indra, Collector, possibly others.

[MuKen]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Those who lives in glass houses...

A: "Hey buddy!  *punch*"

B: "Ow, why'd you do that?  Here's a punch right back!"

C: "You shouldn't talk about people punching when you do it too!"

If every class is equally good or bad at everything, the game will quickly become stale.

Wanting every class to be equally good is not the same as wanting every class to be equally good at everything.

And my point was that NO class should be good at the "strategy" of walking up to things face to face and shooting them to death without dodging anything.

Modifié par MuKen, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:33 .

[Relix28]

MuKen wrote...

Relix28 wrote...
Maybe, if you tried it yourself, you wouldn't be making stupid threads. And I'm pretty sure you've played the Krogan Vanguard before, no?

Your points will come off a little better without the spittle.

And, I know this will sound incredible, but maybe the most popular solo class also is OP and takes no skill. Nerf ALL the things!

[Althix]

MuKen wrote...
Did you read the "play like a moron" rules?

what you can play some other way with this kit?
Turian Ghost kit is not OP, it's stupid. It's stupid because it's useless. It's Jump Jets as a solution for combat roll is ridiculous, because instead of reviving some one, you are making jump with a jet.

So to put it simple for shooty class, Turian Ghost is bad. I mean really bad. Human Soldier is far more "OP", AR you know, tech  bursts with almost no cool down. Why human soldier is not OP and takes no skill?

Modifié par secretsandlies, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:37 .

[MuKen]

Relix28 wrote...
 Nerf ALL the things!

Re-casting someone else's point as something more extreme so you can mock it is not the method of a person who has a good point themselves.

secretsandlies wrote...
 Why human soldier is not OP and takes no skill?

Try doing the same thing with a human soldier and tell me how it goes.

Modifié par MuKen, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Computron2000]

MuKen wrote...
And my point was that NO class should be good at the "strategy" of walking up to things face to face and shooting them to death without dodging anything.

I would like to see a video of you soloing with the same strategy as your OP against anything but reapers. Lets see how it goes then.

[MuKen]

Computron2000 wrote...

I would like to see a video of you soloing with the same strategy as your OP against anything but reapers. Lets see how it goes then.

I show a video of a class getting away with playing like a ******, and the response is "now do it while soloing!"  How about show me how all these other classes can be as stupid in a group setting before saying I have to show it in a solo setting?

Modifié par MuKen, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[xcrunr1647]

This thread is both new and interesting.

[Vic7im]

And yet we don't give a f*ck.

[Computron2000]

MuKen wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

I would like to see a video of you soloing with the same strategy as your OP against anything but reapers. Lets see how it goes then.

I show a video of a class getting away with playing like a ******, and the response is "now do it while soloing!"  How about show me how all these other classes can be as stupid in a group setting before saying I have to show it in a solo setting?

Surely you're not afraid of losing the ability to shift aggro by using cloak? If the ghost is OP compared to any infilitrator, then it must be OP even when the common ability (tact cloak) is minimised.

Lets be frank. You know you will not survive without using soft cover, cover or dodging against the shooting factions as your stimpacks won't cover that much aggro from so many heavy hitters. Moreso if the map comes up as glacier

[AdmiralCheez]

MuKen wrote...

A: "Hey buddy!  *punch*"

B: "Ow, why'd you do that?  Here's a punch right back!"

C: "You shouldn't talk about people punching when you do it too!"

I was referencing the tone of your original post as well as most of your replies to those that disagree with you, not your exchange with Lord_Sirban in particular.  The abundant snark may or may not be intentional, (although it seems pretty intentional in this case).

Wanting every class to be equally good is not the same as wanting every class to be equally good at everything.

Okay, I see your point here.  All classes should at least be playable.  However, the value of a class isn't necessarily its ability to top the scoreboards.  For example, the volus classes are never going to be capable of the GI's sheer lethality, but they make for excellent team support.  I've played multiple matches where we all would have died if it weren't for the volus.

And my point was that NO class should be good at the "strategy" of walking up to things face to face and shooting them to death without dodging anything.

Well, classes like the kroguard/brawler HAVE to be good at this because their kits are designed for close-range fighting... and they CAN'T dodge.  Meanwhile, I've derped out with my Ghost in a similar manner to your video, and the game punished me for it: my combat-drugged ass got handed to me by a pair of possessed scions.  Being intentionally reckless with your Ghost and over-relying on stim packs can leave you SOL, especially if you're sharing the map with a lot of other grenade-happy players.

Oh yeah, and I've outscored many a well-equipped Ghost in PUG matches, lemme tell ya.

[MuKen]

Computron2000 wrote...

Surely you're not afraid of losing the ability to shift aggro by using cloak? If the ghost is OP compared to any infilitrator, then it must be OP even when the common ability (tact cloak) is minimised.

Lets be frank. You know you will not survive without using soft cover, cover or dodging against the shooting factions as your stimpacks won't cover that much aggro from so many heavy hitters. Moreso if the map comes up as glacier

1)  You didn't even answer the point.  Whether or not it will work solo is irrelevant, what he's doing now is already way more than they can, and way stupider.

2)  I don't think you know how cloak works.  Except for reviving, I only cloaked for a split second at a time, if an enemy is already shooting at your face they do not change targets from that.

[cgj]

if someone pop up and say the drellguard is OP, it'll be taken as a joke

if someone pop up and say the gethneer is OP, people will laugh at it and have arguments to show he has weaknesses and strong points

if someone pop up and say the ghost is OP, people will take it very seriously, be Angry for some, but won't expose any weaknesses that make up for the 150 strong points he has, and will talk about other characters

all that to say, simply the reaction you people have regarding thread about the ghost is playing against you
not to mention you're not avancing any arguments ie weaknesses that would balance the ghost's hundred strong points

[MuKen]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I was referencing the tone of your original post as well as most of your replies to those that disagree with you, not your exchange with Lord_Sirban in particular.  The abundant snark may or may not be intentional, (although it seems pretty intentional in this case).

Alright, granted, as I said coming back into the thread I left overnight, I treated everyone as one entity since there were too many people to reply to, and in doing so retaliated in general to some who did not deserve it.  It was wrong, and I will carry myself more civilly moving forward.

Okay, I see your point here.  All classes should at least be playable.  However, the value of a class isn't necessarily its ability to top the scoreboards.  For example, the volus classes are never going to be capable of the GI's sheer lethality, but they make for excellent team support.  I've played multiple matches where we all would have died if it weren't for the volus.

The score was only a minor point of his example.  The point was that he was extremely viable while be played in an absurdly stupid and skilless manner.

Well, classes like the kroguard/brawler HAVE to be good at this because their kits are designed for close-range fighting... and they CAN'T dodge.  Meanwhile, I've derped out with my Ghost in a similar manner to your video, and the game punished me for it: my combat-drugged ass got handed to me by a pair of possessed scions.  Being intentionally reckless with your Ghost and over-relying on stim packs can leave you SOL, especially if you're sharing the map with a lot of other grenade-happy players.

Well, I'd disagree, but I didn't make this thread to argue about the kroguard.

Re: the ghost, you're not going to be SOL more than 5 times a match.


Anyway, I'm out to lunch, see you all later.

[Cyrax86]

Still no response.

you played against the weakest faction the Reapers, a melee heavy faction, if you stay far enough away from banshees and brutes(and husks) they won't kill you or inflict enough damage, and a ravager won't shoot at you if you're close enough.

Play against the Geth and walk up to a Prime, a pyro, hunters. how about the Collectors walk up to a scion or a praetorian or into a crowd of collector captains.

If you say stim packs or OP why are you using a gear amp that gives you more on a map thats almost generous with grenades from ammo boxes. Did your team mates have kits that used grenades or did you have the ammo boxes all to yourself.

[Computron2000]

MuKen wrote...
1)  You didn't even answer the point.  Whether or not it will work solo is irrelevant, what he's doing now is already way more than they can, and way stupider.

2)  I don't think you know how cloak works.  Except for reviving, I only cloaked for a split second at a time, if an enemy is already shooting at your face they do not change targets from that.

Hardly irrelevant and the fact you're so sure that its OP but won't even do a simple solo with the same rules as your original post does speak volumes. No aggro sinks, no teammate debuffs, no focused fire with a shooting faction reduces the ghost's OPness that much?

Btw, cloak moves aggro of those further away from you. Those within close range and already shooting you will continue to shoot you but as the video shows, the geth soldier likes to get in front of you or between you and another enemy. By cloaking, he gets the aggro if the enemy targeting algorithim is in queue. Those further away will also lose you as a target and focus on the others. Most infilitrators will know this.

[Relix28]

MuKen wrote...

Relix28 wrote...
 Nerf ALL the things!

Re-casting someone else's point as something more extreme so you can mock it is not the method of a person who has a good point themselves.

Tell me, what exaclty is the point of this thread? As in, what do you aim to achieve with it?

And what exactly would you suggest they nerf? From your poorly though out opening post and your hilarious vid that has a bigger like/dislike ratio than rebecca black's friday, I would assume you'd like to see stim packs nerfed. Havoc would take a huge hit, while Ghost would remain just as powerful, albeit slightly less survivable. Same thing happened with geth hunter mode. GI remained to be the king of dps, while the engineer took an unfair hit.
Then that leaves us with TC's ar damage boost, the one thing that makes him unique and different from other infiltrators, when it comes to weapon choice. You take that away, and he's just another infiltrator with slightly more survivability.
Or maybe it's the Harrier, one of the very few good assault rifles in the game. How is nerfing that fair to bottom feeders like the FQE, BatSent or Vorcha Hunter?

Wichever of the above things you'd nerf because it's "too OP" on the Ghost, would have a negative impact on the rest of the game. In other words, balancing things around one "OP" character is a bad idea.

Modifié par Relix28, 02 décembre 2012 - 07:16 .

[billy the squid]

MuKen wrote...

 Wow, I post a video, go to sleep, come back in the morning and the thread exploded.  I'm just going to respond to the crowd in general.  If any of you thinks I forgot something or you deserve a specific response, then post your own video where you demonstrate some other class can be played just as stupidly and show the same level of power and invincibility, and I'll talk to you.



You used equipment

Yeah, I always use equipment, they all did too.  If you don't use equipment, you are a bad selfish person and should feel bad.  I have more of the stuff than I know what to do with, and it just keeps piling up.  Especially ammo.

You didn't outscore them that much

Yeah, I don't know if you noticed, I played like a COMPLETE MORON, shot in the dumbest possible way on a weapons class, and posted up all the moron rules I played by.  I shouldn't have outscored anyone at all.  I should have been laying dead somewhere half the time.

That's a grenade-rich map

Hardly, the majority of maps have double grenade boxes now.  It's more accurate to say the ones that don't are grenade-poor maps.  Even on a grenade-poor map, the only difference is I would have to use my thermal clip packs.  Considering I never came close to needing any other consumables, I'd say that still qualifies as an OP no-skill character.  Like I said, if you think some other character can do the same thing under the same ****** rules I posted, go ahead and show me.  I don't care if you use all your best equipment and choose the best map/faction you can for it.

This class or that class can do it too

Show me.

You used the harrier

Yes, an OP class is called OP because of their good kits, not their bad ones.  Anyone saying he has to be shown as OP with crappy weapons fails logic.

There's some incredibly counter inntuative logic going on here.

1) Using equipment. What did your point have to do with anything? If the TGI is truly OP you should be able to beat the players consistently by a considerable margin without any equipment on. Or does multiple 30% damage boosts from equipment not help you kill things?

2) Great, now try it on solo. Where everyone's attention is focused on you. And try it against Collectors and Geth. 

3) Using Grenade gear mrk V may have helped with that.

4) Type in Kroguard solo Gold on Youtube, or any other character for that matter. 

5)Using one of the most powerful assault rifles in the game on a kit designed to make ARs more damaging results in a high damage output. Funny that, especially when you're using a high level Harrier with an EB and Pen mod by the look of it.

Essentially you stacked the game in your favour, suprise, suprise did well and then called it OP. Fail and fail hard.

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 décembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Punisher cork]

He's fantastic at hit and runs. You have 1,000 players you'll have 2,000 playstyles and combinations of strategy. Deal with it.

[AdmiralCheez]

MuKen wrote...

Alright, granted, as I said coming back into the thread I left overnight, I treated everyone as one entity since there were too many people to reply to, and in doing so retaliated in general to some who did not deserve it.  It was wrong, and I will carry myself more civilly moving forward.

Awesome.

The score was only a minor point of his example.  The point was that he was extremely viable while be played in an absurdly stupid and skilless manner.

As a player who was extremely stupid and skilless when I first started playing the Ghost, I disagree.  Let's talk about what you did in your video:

1. You had a helluva loadout.  Not only did you know how to spec your Ghost, but you gave him a goddamn good weapon that synchronized insanely well with your playstyle.

2. You focused mainly on mooks, which you knew you could safely take out.  You used Cloak to buff your already ridiculous weapon damage, Overload to stun large groups of baddies at once, then kept the fire going to keep them on the defensive (not to mention you were close enough to not have to worry about aiming all that much).  The fact that you didn't take cover was balanced by your impressive reaction time.  In other words, you are good at this game, despite your efforts to suck as much as possible.

3. Your team was good.  They helped even out the pressure so that one guy never had to carry the match.  Also, none of them were grenade gobblers, giving you more opportunities to go on a stim binge.

Meanwhile, let's look at the crap I tried to pull as the Worst Ghost Ever:

1. I didn't have a lot of decent equipment/weaponry unlocked; my choices for a worthwhile AR were limited to either a high-level Vindicator or mid-level Mattock.  These are fine and dandy if you're a good player, but at the time I had trouble remembering to aim before shooting.

2. As someone who tended to play extremely cautiously, I specced my Ghost defensively.  I couldn't capitalize on Cloak's damage boost because of it, and was too much of a chicken in-game to fight aggressively, anyway.  I pretty much just spammed Overload and ran away, leaving my teammates to deal with the baddies.

3. Since I avoided heavy combat, I had little use for my Stim Packs.  When I did need them, however, I forgot I had them.  Many a First Aid Medal were distributed to all players that match.

4. Jump jets.  Oh god, the jump jets.  I kept underestimating the distance they'd cover, and thus wound up pinning myself against a wall at least once a wave.  Also, since I was used to playing krogans, batarians, and vanilla turians, I often forgot I had a dodge at all, and thus unintentionally rocketed myself right into spawns.

Thus, I was doomed to lurk at the bottom of the scoreboard for the rest of the evening.  Only now am I actually decent at Ghosting, but I still tend to occupy either the second or third slot, probably because I've yet to find that sweet spot between offence and defense.

Well, I'd disagree, but I didn't make this thread to argue about the kroguard.

When you do, the two of us can have a nice, friendly conversation about how Cheez likes to get synch killed.

Re: the ghost, you're not going to be SOL more than 5 times a match.

Collectors on Goddess.  Lousy connection.  There were tears.

Anyway, I'm out to lunch, see you all later.

Enjoy.

[Astronaughte]

I've unlocked him forever ago and recently played as him. I'd say he's the most fun class I've played.
He may be a tad op but who cares? It isn't like everyone is running around as him, and I've never seen more than one in a match.

[xTh3xBusinessx]

Strong kit? Yes but not OP. Too many people on BSN use the term out of place. TGI is one of my main kits due to Turian+Infiltrator. But I see WAY too many bad kids playin him on gold/plat. Not to mention that the game does not require alot of skill in general. You can also derp around on many other classes in the game if you are at least decent at the game. /thread

[palmof40sorrows]

SuperTacoKing wrote...

I still continue to not understand the need for nerfs in a Co-op game...

Never understood that myself.

[Xaijin]

The problems here are actually separate issue dumped into an aggregate.

First Off: The video is conditional, and thus proves nothing. It also can't be benchmarked because you can't get the enemies to perform again in the same fashion, and infiltrators has the LoS trick, so aggro is really not going to be an issue.

It's also very clear the results are skewed and would have been very very different with Collectors or Geth, even with an identical loadout.

The TGI's offense is not overpowered. You can get close the same results on noncloak classes, that not even debatable.

The TGI's defense is a different story. The TGI' s defensive option are incredibly strong at ANY level of play, and because part of that relies on an economic component instead of an ability one, the TGI's situational defense is potentially stronger than even a vanguard's. The TGI has TWO economic defense boosts, and one of them can be replenished, and replenishing that component is very easy to do, thanks to having a cloak.

At the beginning of ME3's metagame cycle, economic components were strong, but limited. Due to steady series of buffs, economic powers are actually by far the strongest element in the game now, and the economic aspect hasn't really limited their use at all amongst smart players.

The TGI has all of the advantages of an Infiltrator, and make no mistake they are still very much ADVANTAGES, and it also has a defensive option the other turians lack, in addition to a very krogan like ability with above stated economic components that have very little downside or usage/clutch/emergency implementation issues.

The TGI is not demolisher broken by any stretch or metric, but it is stronger than say, a krogan vanguard, which is saying something.

If the TGI is supposed to be the "out of the box platinum ready" kit for turians like the KV is, then I have really no issue with it. But to say the kit is "just fine" or simply inline with comparable classes is a lie, the people saying it know it.

The TGI has very few mechanical/gameplay weaknesses. That's not an opinion, it's quite literally how the kit was designed, just like the GI, the Destroyer, The KV, the Valkyrie and Justicar.

Modifié par Xaijin, 02 décembre 2012 - 08:53 .