262 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaoswind]

Kenadian wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

breaking news the TGI is a crutch, no one knew about this in the same way no one knew ice was cold.

Stims need a nerf and Havoc strike needs a huge buff.

The only thing that can kill a TGI and in some sense a havoc is LAG, if something else killed you, then you suck balls

They really don't. Why would you hurt the Havoc in anyway? 

on demand 4000 shields for 9 seconds not OP? you can have 7 Stims with grenade gear, and ammo packs recharge those, so you can have 42 stim inyections before moving to a single ammo box that is almost on par with a Kroguard with cyclonic IV, but the TGI has one of the best single target DPS in the whole game while the Kroguard doesn't, the TGI has one of the best dodge in the game while the Kroguard doesn't, the TGI HAS a CC power while the Kroguard doesn't.

a TGI with grenade gear has all classes beat on survavility by a HUGE margin, while also having decent CC, awesome single target DPS, super B dodge... a Kroguard needs cyclonic IV to have more survavility than a TGI, but the Kroguard needs to be close to the enemies to be immortal with makes him vulnerable to insta kills, while the TGI is immortal period.

Stims are ****ing OP, no actually grenade gear V IS OP having 7 Stims makes the TGI unkillable, heck having 4 is already pretty OP, but because a Nerf to gear isn't going to happen, the best we can do is nerf stims.

Allow me to say it again. Why would you ever hurt the Havoc? The character is ANYTHING but OP and you need every ounce of shields Stim Packs can give you if you want to play close in with him. The only thing available for nerfing on the TGI is his unique cloak. Going after Stim Packs is utterly retarded and you should feel bad for even suggesting.

because the Havoc has crazy survavility as well 42 stims without going to a single ammo box is too much even for the Havoc.

Nerf Stims:
A) Make them NOT behave like Grenades by making Grenade related Gear not work with stims.
or
Give MORE of them (reducing the effect of grenade gear) 2 Stims on first point + 2 more on second evo with a total max of 6 Stims pack with NO gear
a reduction a max of 3000 shields for 7 seconds with NO invincivility Frames generated by the stims (if you are out in the open, the stims won't save you PERIOD)

Mega buff Havoc strike:

Give it Iframes and DR
MORE melee/weapon damage for longer
More FORCE/Damage

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

*watches vid*

*sees OP plays with the harrier*

*Facepalm*

[Chaoswind]

Rubios wrote...

AlienSpaceBats wrote...

It's not OP so much as a safe bet if you're new to higher difficulties. Not everyone can solo gold or even silver with an Engineer class.

I just don't get it, we're all on the same team, what's the problem if a kit empowers a player to do really well where they wouldn't usually?

They should add a gun that kills everything in one shot, we are all on the same team after all.

Yeah, that would be fun.

Cobra

[Operator m1]

Rubios wrote...

AlienSpaceBats wrote...

It's not OP so much as a safe bet if you're new to higher difficulties. Not everyone can solo gold or even silver with an Engineer class.

I just don't get it, we're all on the same team, what's the problem if a kit empowers a player to do really well where they wouldn't usually?

They should add a gun that kills everything in one shot, we are all on the same team after all.

Yeah, that would be fun.

Missile launcher.

Besides, the TGI doesn't clear masses of enemies as well as a bunch of other riskier, but more devastating kits if that's what you're implying. EG: drell adept/demolisher

If you're good enough to take cover and avoid damage, you'd be better off using a kit that has a better offense power than an 'oh ****' button. I'd call that balance, since there's a reward for playing a class that doesn't have panic buttons taking up potential room-clearing powers.

Modifié par Operator m1, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[Kenadian]

Chaoswind wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

breaking news the TGI is a crutch, no one knew about this in the same way no one knew ice was cold.

Stims need a nerf and Havoc strike needs a huge buff.

The only thing that can kill a TGI and in some sense a havoc is LAG, if something else killed you, then you suck balls

They really don't. Why would you hurt the Havoc in anyway? 

on demand 4000 shields for 9 seconds not OP? you can have 7 Stims with grenade gear, and ammo packs recharge those, so you can have 42 stim inyections before moving to a single ammo box that is almost on par with a Kroguard with cyclonic IV, but the TGI has one of the best single target DPS in the whole game while the Kroguard doesn't, the TGI has one of the best dodge in the game while the Kroguard doesn't, the TGI HAS a CC power while the Kroguard doesn't.

a TGI with grenade gear has all classes beat on survavility by a HUGE margin, while also having decent CC, awesome single target DPS, super B dodge... a Kroguard needs cyclonic IV to have more survavility than a TGI, but the Kroguard needs to be close to the enemies to be immortal with makes him vulnerable to insta kills, while the TGI is immortal period.

Stims are ****ing OP, no actually grenade gear V IS OP having 7 Stims makes the TGI unkillable, heck having 4 is already pretty OP, but because a Nerf to gear isn't going to happen, the best we can do is nerf stims.

Allow me to say it again. Why would you ever hurt the Havoc? The character is ANYTHING but OP and you need every ounce of shields Stim Packs can give you if you want to play close in with him. The only thing available for nerfing on the TGI is his unique cloak. Going after Stim Packs is utterly retarded and you should feel bad for even suggesting.

because the Havoc has crazy survavility as well 42 stims without going to a single ammo box is too much even for the Havoc.

Nerf Stims:
A) Make them NOT behave like Grenades by making Grenade related Gear not work with stims.
or
Give MORE of them (reducing the effect of grenade gear) 2 Stims on first point + 2 more on second evo with a total max of 6 Stims pack with NO gear
a reduction a max of 3000 shields for 7 seconds with NO invincivility Frames generated by the stims (if you are out in the open, the stims won't save you PERIOD)

Mega buff Havoc strike:

Give it Iframes and DR
MORE melee/weapon damage for longer
More FORCE/Damage

I could actually live with that.

[Heldarion]

I'm a huge infiltrator fan and I haven't even played TGI in last two or three weeks, lol

[Operator m1]

Heldarion wrote...

I'm a huge infiltrator fan and I haven't even played TGI in last two or three weeks, lol

Same. It's kinda bland but effective. Rather play my SI, which I find more powerful offensively than a TGI, considering its shield restore, and shield rip power are not 2 seperate powers taking up space, and brings a 20% damage debuff for the entire squad, yet the TGI is magically OP to some people.

Being noob friendly, and OP are two different things. Alot of people on this thread don't get it.

[megawug]

IMHO, TGI is the inf version of the kroguard. Both are not as good as the GI for damage. And on platinum, damage rules.

[MuKen]

Cyrax86 wrote...

Still no response.

There's literally dozens of people saying things to me, if you think I was avoiding you because your point is so much stronger than all of theirs, you are mistaken.  Your points were and will continue to be part of responses I've been giving to the crowd.

"You played a weak faction, map, didn't solo, used too much equipment, etc"

Other classes cannot do this.  It was a stupid way to play, and the TGI allowed that stupid play to fly, that's the point.  All these people asking me to do this on a harder map, with a crappier loadout, on solo, whatever, do not have a point unless they can first show that THIS is nothing out of the ordinary, that any class can do THIS or something comparable.  Then I will see if it will work in even worse conditions.

"You used weapon mods, strong gear, the harrier, his most powerful kit, etc"

That is the whole point.  When you say a class is too strong, you are talking about his strong loadouts, not his weak ones.  Nobody is saying a TGI with no stim packs and a geth plasma rifle is OP.  They are talking about his strong loadouts, and comparing that to the strong loadouts that other classes have to offer.

Some other class with a Harrier is not going to face-tank a whole mission the same way and never show any sign of struggling.

"Nerfing the ghost will nerf the Havoc."

I haven't even made a claim as to what specifically should be done.  All the thread was doing was demonstrating that in his current state, there is an imbalance.  I'm sure there's plenty of ways you can either nerf him without hurting the Havoc, or buff the Havoc to compensate.  Some have suggested such in this thread already.

"Other classes can do this too."

Even if that were the case (and I'm sure some of you have recording equipment to show it, so do it already), that would only show they are also OP and skill-less.

Walking up to enemies and shooting them to death while spamming stuff is not something that should work on Gold, that's the premise here.  If there are in fact a couple classes that can get away with it, then they should all be looked at.

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

[Operator m1]

MuKen wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

Still no response.

There's literally dozens of people saying things to me, if you think I was avoiding you because your point is so much stronger than all of theirs, you are mistaken.  Your points were and will continue to be part of responses I've been giving to the crowd.

"You played a weak faction, map, didn't solo, used too much equipment, etc"

Other classes cannot do this.  It was a stupid way to play, and the TGI allowed that stupid play to fly, that's the point.  All these people asking me to do this on a harder map, with a crappier loadout, on solo, whatever, do not have a point unless they can first show that THIS is nothing out of the ordinary, that any class can do THIS or something comparable.  Then I will see if it will work in even worse conditions.

"You used weapon mods, strong gear, the harrier, his most powerful kit, etc"

That is the whole point.  When you say a class is too strong, you are talking about his strong loadouts, not his weak ones.  Nobody is saying a TGI with no stim packs and a geth plasma rifle is OP.  They are talking about his strong loadouts, and comparing that to the strong loadouts that other classes have to offer.

Some other class with a Harrier is not going to face-tank a whole mission the same way and never show any sign of struggling.

"Nerfing the ghost will nerf the Havoc."

I haven't even made a claim as to what specifically should be done.  All the thread was doing was demonstrating that in his current state, there is an imbalance.  I'm sure there's plenty of ways you can either nerf him without hurting the Havoc, or buff the Havoc to compensate.  Some have suggested such in this thread already.

"Other classes can do this too."

Even if that were the case (and I'm sure some of you have recording equipment to show it, so do it already), that would only show they are also OP and skill-less.

Walking up to enemies and shooting them to death while spamming stuff is not something that should work on Gold, that's the premise here.  If there are in fact a couple classes that can get away with it, then they should all be looked at.

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

You still didn't consider:

a: the fact other kits are more effictive offensively. Only tradeoff is you should use cover to not die.
b: you can't get away with doing this with other grenade users in the squad

When you stop needing to use the panic buttons, a TGI isn't as powerful as you think. Yes it's easy. Is it as rewarding as a asari vanguard, or drell adept? No.

[Heldarion]

Operator m1 wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

I'm a huge infiltrator fan and I haven't even played TGI in last two or three weeks, lol

Same. It's kinda bland but effective. Rather play my SI, which I find more powerful offensively than a TGI, considering its shield restore, and shield rip power are not 2 seperate powers taking up space, and brings a 20% damage debuff for the entire squad, yet the TGI is magically OP to some people.

Being noob friendly, and OP are two different things. Alot of people on this thread don't get it.

Salarian Infi is apparently extremely underplayed for some reason, and it's still an awesome kit. Myself, I like to play Human or Geth Infiltrator the most.

GI with Talon

Modifié par Heldarion, 02 décembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[hostaman]

Operator m1 wrote...

MuKen wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

Still no response.

There's literally dozens of people saying things to me, if you think I was avoiding you because your point is so much stronger than all of theirs, you are mistaken.  Your points were and will continue to be part of responses I've been giving to the crowd.

"You played a weak faction, map, didn't solo, used too much equipment, etc"

Other classes cannot do this.  It was a stupid way to play, and the TGI allowed that stupid play to fly, that's the point.  All these people asking me to do this on a harder map, with a crappier loadout, on solo, whatever, do not have a point unless they can first show that THIS is nothing out of the ordinary, that any class can do THIS or something comparable.  Then I will see if it will work in even worse conditions.

"You used weapon mods, strong gear, the harrier, his most powerful kit, etc"

That is the whole point.  When you say a class is too strong, you are talking about his strong loadouts, not his weak ones.  Nobody is saying a TGI with no stim packs and a geth plasma rifle is OP.  They are talking about his strong loadouts, and comparing that to the strong loadouts that other classes have to offer.

Some other class with a Harrier is not going to face-tank a whole mission the same way and never show any sign of struggling.

"Nerfing the ghost will nerf the Havoc."

I haven't even made a claim as to what specifically should be done.  All the thread was doing was demonstrating that in his current state, there is an imbalance.  I'm sure there's plenty of ways you can either nerf him without hurting the Havoc, or buff the Havoc to compensate.  Some have suggested such in this thread already.

"Other classes can do this too."

Even if that were the case (and I'm sure some of you have recording equipment to show it, so do it already), that would only show they are also OP and skill-less.

Walking up to enemies and shooting them to death while spamming stuff is not something that should work on Gold, that's the premise here.  If there are in fact a couple classes that can get away with it, then they should all be looked at.

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

You still didn't consider:

a: the fact other kits are more effictive offensively. Only tradeoff is you should use cover to not die.
b: you can't get away with doing this with other grenade users in the squad

When you stop needing to use the panic buttons, a TGI isn't as powerful as you think. Yes it's easy. Is it as rewarding as a asari vanguard, or drell adept? No.

This ^

So you're bored playing as the TGI ?

Simple - Play something more challenging.  Do you really need this thread to point it out?

[stayposi1990]

This again? Really?

[hudder92]

MuKen wrote...

 
This class or that class can do it too

Show me.

How's this? 10 minute gold run.

GI Javelin

You asked... There are a lot of class/weapon combinations that can dominate.

Modifié par hudder92, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[MuKen]

Operator m1 wrote...

You still didn't consider:

a: the fact other kits are more effictive offensively. Only tradeoff is you should use cover to not die.
b: you can't get away with doing this with other grenade users in the squad

 

(a) A handful of kits can be a little more effective offensively.  TGI is up there on the offense chart, and tied for, if not top of, the survivability chart.  You can play him with no skill and still do very well, that was the point of this video.

Being the best class offensively still requires skill to use.  Being top-notch offense with nigh-unbeatable defense nullifies the need for any skill.

( It works fine with other grenade users, at worst you will have to use a couple thermal clip packs in tight situations.

hudder92 wrote...

How's this? 10 minute gold run.

GI Javelin

You asked... There are a lot of class/weapon combinations that can dominate.

Not even close...did you read the conditions in the OP?  The players in this video were quite skillful.  You think anybody can strap on a Jav GI and play like Jay?  They certainly did not blindly allow all incoming fire to hit them and they certainly did not shoot randomly about the torso of every enemy.

Doing what I did in this video requires no aiming skills and no judgement, it is easy-mode.

Modifié par MuKen, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:28 .

[Zaidra]

Play platinum, then we'll talk.

[Anders028]

Stim Packs are overpowered not the Ghost or the Havoc

[hudder92]

MuKen wrote...

Operator m1 wrote...

You still didn't consider:

a: the fact other kits are more effictive offensively. Only tradeoff is you should use cover to not die.
b: you can't get away with doing this with other grenade users in the squad

 

(a) A handful of kits can be a little more effective offensively.  TGI is up there on the offense chart, and tied for, if not top of, the survivability chart.  You can play him with no skill and still do very well, that was the point of this video.

Being the best class offensively still requires skill to use.  Being top-notch offense with nigh-unbeatable defense nullifies the need for any skill.

( It works fine with other grenade users, at worst you will have to use a couple thermal clip packs in tight situations.

hudder92 wrote...

How's this? 10 minute gold run.

GI Javelin

You asked... There are a lot of class/weapon combinations that can dominate.

Not even close...did you read the conditions in the OP?  The players in this video were quite skillful.  You think anybody can strap on a Jav GI and play like Jay?  They certainly did not blindly allow all incoming fire to hit them and they certainly did not shoot randomly about the torso of every enemy.

Doing what I did in this video requires no aiming skills and no judgement, it is easy-mode.

Well, if I had a PVR, I would accept the challenge. I have done it on Gold without any cosumables equiped, and without using medi-gel, ops packs, or missiles. Using a Vorcha, Kroguard, and yes even the Geth Infiltrator. And most recently the Geth Soldier.

It's not hard to play smart. Even when I play the TGI which isn't that often.. I don't like the class. There are better classes out there. I don't use stem packs very often. I always forget I have them... Plus I hate the TGI's rocket boots. They get me in trouble more times than not.

And yes they are skilled players.. But don't sit here and pretend that you are not. Anyone that is half way decent at the game can take any class and make it look OP. And then pretend that they are goofing off. 

Modifié par hudder92, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[hudder92]

Also if you are going to say it takes no skill. The least you could do is play against a faction that isn't labeled the easiest faction. And when firing from the hip, you should have really bad aim, since most skill-less players aren't going to be able to hit everything they are shooting at.

And most skill-less players don't know how to cheese the stairway glitch to keep from getting grabbed. And also I don't know what was up with the AI in that match, but you should have been sync-killed at least five times in that match. You were incredibly lucky.

[Scottus4]

1. You had a helluva loadout.  Not only did you know how to spec your
Ghost, but you gave him a goddamn good weapon that synchronized insanely
well with your playstyle.

2. You focused mainly on mooks, which
you knew you could safely take out.  You used Cloak to buff your already
ridiculous weapon damage, Overload to stun large groups of baddies at
once, then kept the fire going to keep them on the defensive (not to
mention you were close enough to not have to worry about aiming all that
much).  The fact that you didn't take cover was balanced by your
impressive reaction time.  In other words, you are good at this game, despite your efforts to suck as much as possible.

3.
Your team was good.  They helped even out the pressure so that one guy
never had to carry the match.  Also, none of them were grenade gobblers,
giving you more opportunities to go on a stim binge.

These things. The OP was
hardly "playing bad". Level 20, using a Harrier, kitted out with amps,
strafing away from melee enemies, and playing on a map with LOS breakers so he wouldn't be focused on from range. If OP did that against Cerbs or Geth on an open map, then we'd have something to talk about. I notice in the video the OP hung out inside the building most of the time, so it seems pretty clear to me he knows that he can't take sustained fire from too many enemies and still stick to his challenge.

MuKen wrote...

Other classes cannot do this.

Kroguard...? Really? I'm not posting up a video, there are countless videos out there of Kroguard being able to play like retards.

And honestly, how noob friendly a class plays isn't the most important balance concern. Unless they're old school QI-against-Geth levels of broken, making sure the class is competitive against other classes at top skill levels on UUG or Plat is the most important balancing aspect.

[Operator m1]

MuKen wrote...

Operator m1 wrote...

You still didn't consider:

a: the fact other kits are more effictive offensively. Only tradeoff is you should use cover to not die.
b: you can't get away with doing this with other grenade users in the squad

 

(a) A handful of kits can be a little more effective offensively.  TGI is up there on the offense chart, and tied for, if not top of, the survivability chart.  You can play him with no skill and still do very well, that was the point of this video.

Being the best class offensively still requires skill to use.  Being top-notch offense with nigh-unbeatable defense nullifies the need for any skill.

( It works fine with other grenade users, at worst you will have to use a couple thermal clip packs in tight situations.

The more you eat bullets, the more thermal clip packs you'll have to use, just like the more you screw up with anyone else, the more medi gel, ops packs, and missiles you'll have to use.

I'm not saying the TGI needs the most skill to play, but you'll be punished for playing him wrong like anything else, and at the same time there are more rewarding kits, which you admit.

So what if it's easy to play? I'd rather play something more effective, or more fun in my opinion.

Noob friendly does not mean it's OP. Half of your thread title is completely wrong.

Modifié par Operator m1, 03 décembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[BoneCarlos Lee]

I don't know. A Krogan Vanguard can easily complete the match even without the harrier.

And he can solo it.

So thay should nerf Kroguard?

[JaimasOfRaxis]

MuKen wrote...

youtu.be/-NzMtOODx3M

I set out to play the TGI in the dumbest way possible on a Gold PUG.

Throughout this match, I did not ever take cover, not even soft cover.  I made no attempt to avoid any incoming fire, and did not dodge or run except to get ammo or when there were no enemies around.  The only defensive action I took was to walk backwards from enemies that could instakill or grab or melee me.  I basically face-tanked all attacks with his ridiculous stim-packs.

Offensively, I never scoped in or aimed for any heads.  I just hip-fired in the general direction of the torso of everything in sight while cycling cloak and overload.

The results:
No deaths
No consumables used
Top Score
22 minute clear time

It was a reasonable clear time, my teammates were not bad.  But the TGI is clearly too powerful..

I'm going to report threads like this for being spam from now on.

[AdmiralCheez]

MuKen wrote...

@AdmiralCheez, Sure you had a lot of problems when starting out, so you can say that lack of skill hurt.  But there is a difference in "skill" and "knowledge".  Of course every class requires knowledge, but that can be given to you in minutes.  If someone had told you "spec him this way, and just stim pack before every fight and refresh the stim every two cloak cycles", you could have breezed through too regardless of not having much experience with the game.  That's different from other classes, where you have to learn through experience when and how to defend yourself.

Ironically, I tried the strategy you just mentioned (aggressively-specced stim packs and whatnot) and failed miserably at it.  I do much better with a hit-and-run playstyle, with a build I figured out for myself.  My Ghost is a lot of things, but he's not a tank, and I'm way more comfortable that way.

You know what was an actual breeze for me when I first started playing?  Novaguard.  I'm serious.  I dominated with that thing, even moreso when I unlocked the Wraith.  Got it working on Gold, even (and still play it occasionally, but not very often because I know what it's like to share the map with a Novaguard and sweet Jesus my poor teammates I am so sorry).

Moral of the story: Easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.  Not saying the Ghost isn't a top-tier kit, but it's not so much better than everyone else that it's absurd.  You claim it's an auto-win button, but my own examples prove otherwise.

PS: I have alibis if you don't believe me about the Novaguard thing.