228 réponses à ce sujet

[BouncyFrag]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The farewell scene? You mean the conga line?

Thats one way to put it. If I do need to get my Dragon Age party freak on, this is more than adequate to fit the bill.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTDcOqYfd-Y
edit: this cannot be unseen, you have been warned

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 03 décembre 2012 - 11:33 .

[StElmo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Deleted some posts to clean up unnecessary, off topic discussion.

If you feel the thread creator is spamming this topic, please contact a moderator about it. Thanks.

Where am I spamming what now?

[macrocarl]

I loved both games but found I could play DA2 more. I was exhausted after DAO. I too thought a little more polish on DA2 would have made it even better...... like less repeating levels, import flags importing, a real way to deal with 'junk' in the inventory. But the devs have said they are taking these concerns (and a bunch of other ones) into account moving forward, so I'm not worried. BW is filled with smart people who care. Can't wait until they can show us stuff!

[Allan Schumacher]

StElmo wrote...

Where am I spamming what now?

You aren't.  Some posts came into this thread saying you were and I deleted them for not being relevant.

In other words, don't worry about it.  Not your problem.

[StElmo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Where am I spamming what now?

You aren't.  Some posts came into this thread saying you were and I deleted them for not being relevant.

In other words, don't worry about it.  Not your problem.

Oh and this:

macrocarl wrote...

I loved both games but found I could
play DA2 more. I was exhausted after DAO. I too thought a little more
polish on DA2 would have made it even better...... like less repeating
levels, import flags importing, a real way to deal with 'junk' in the
inventory. But the devs have said they are taking these concerns (and a
bunch of other ones) into account moving forward, so I'm not worried. BW
is filled with smart people who care. Can't wait until they can show us
stuff!

Modifié par StElmo, 03 décembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Kangaxx628]

Well, that's is the question which came first the chicken or the egg? Was the human only protagonist driven by story concerns or a time saver/corner cut to only record 2 voice actors? Was the streamlining of classes a design decision or merely a way to reduce coding/playtesting time around balance? The wave combat a unique and novel direction or a sop to make up for poor AI and strategic planning of every battle? Until such time as the new directions can be explained as such and not merely corner cutting, any such discussion will fall into two camps talking past each other.

[Kileyan]

I don't think the combat in DA2 was anything special other than closing the distance to attack being a bit faster, but a bit overdone.

I'd be happy with DAO that was a little faster, or better put a DA2 that was about half speed. I understand that Bioware wanted a more instant action game, things happened NOW, to create a better flow to combat. The theory failed, thing were so fast, I was pausing much more often in DA2, just to keep track of my character, exacerbated by the really bad camera.

Anyways I'm not sure what the OP considered the new ideas that should be kept, but I hope weapon/armor restrictions and the making of your characters stats so one dimensional wasn't one of those.

I don't really want to go through her bulletpoints piece by piece, but my broad response is i didn't feel all that engaged in the story via most of those storytelling mechanisms. I didn't know my sister or brother before they died instantly or were taken away shortly after for the other one....for the majority of the game. THe 10 years story was lacking any sort of belief of time passing, that didn't work for me either.

Really, the grey area, no good or bad thing is getting a bit overused, not a big selling point to me. Sometimes good is good, bad is bad, I don't need a philosophy lesson everytime I save a farm girl from a bunch of bandits, or a contrived bad result from doing so.

The only way that DA2 was a step forward to me was the companions. I found them some of the better writing Bioware has done. Even the characters I hated were the good kind of hate:) It is a shame they had to appear in DA2, a not so successful game. I'm kinda sad I might never see Varric or Aveline again.

Modifié par Kileyan, 04 décembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[Kileyan]

Vandicus wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Enemies coming out of the ceiling innovative?

LOL. When I saw that screenshot my first reaction was "well does that happen in other games?" XD

(Facetiously of course )

While its certainly aestheticaly jarring, I found it did have the advantage of making combat rather less predictable. It greatly reduced the "Hmmm conveniently placed cover" feeling that I get in RPGs in general. 

I must strongly disagree with you. Part of what makes the combat good, in a good rpg is that enemies exist at all times, on the map you are on. It is not the sign of a bad game to have conveniently placed cover. Don't get me wrong, I mean bottlenecks, doorways and such, the waist high concrete road barriers of ME2 were bad examples. There is nothing wrong with choosing  your place of battle, nothing at all wrong with using stealth scouting or magical divination spells to ferret out enemy locations and choose a place of combat.

A bad game is one that throws all those decisions before battle away, and just randomly drops enemies on top of you. It is not innovation, it is a sign of lack of time to do it correctly, it is a shortcut.

Now to your point, sure a couple of special scenarios that shake things up is ok, but making every combat random paratroopers isn't good game making.

One of my major problems with DA2 is that the bad guys often don't even exist on the maps until you trigger them. For gosh sakes, populate the maps, don't make them script driven encounters where bad guys phase into existance, and totally ignore stealth or magically see the party members you left 100 yards back. All things should exist on the map, to be overcome how we see fit, except for special encounters.

Modifié par Kileyan, 04 décembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[d4eaming]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The farewell scene? You mean the conga line?

Thats one way to put it. If I do need to get my Dragon Age party freak on, this is more than adequate to fit the bill.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTDcOqYfd-Y
edit: this cannot be unseen, you have been warned

Oh my gods, werk it Zev. You too, Loghain.


Hoshi- I just got to Thriller. +9000

[d4eaming]

macrocarl wrote...

I loved both games but found I could play DA2 more. I was exhausted after DAO. I too thought a little more polish on DA2 would have made it even better...... like less repeating levels, import flags importing, a real way to deal with 'junk' in the inventory. But the devs have said they are taking these concerns (and a bunch of other ones) into account moving forward, so I'm not worried. BW is filled with smart people who care. Can't wait until they can show us stuff!

With DAO, I spent much more time from the very beginning being completely glued to the game. It took slightly longer for me to get into DA2, and I attribute that to how much changed between games and relearning it. Once I got the hang of DA2, I did the exact same, glued to it for hours on end, it being the first thing I went to when I got home and the last thing I did before bed.

I love both games, for different reasons. I would like to see DAI be a mix of both.

*I enjoyed the faster combat of DA2. I felt like DAO spent too much time lazily moving to enemies.
*I enjoyed being able to sneak around more as a rogue in DAO. I remember a quest inside a building where I had to stay my party and sneak ahead to disarm traps, lay my own traps, then engage the enemy and lead them to ambush. *I can't do that in DA2.
*I miss making traps.
*I enjoyed many of the unique armors in DA2. Current mage Hawke is using The Fugitive's Mantle because it's flipping gorgeous, even though I have Robes of the Pretender in my inventory- I think the Robes are ugly despite better stats.
*I like the tighter narrative of DA2. I agree that DAO just feels so exhausting, and that's why I always stop new playthroughs once I get to Orzimmar and/or The Fade. I don't even like doing the Circle Tower any more. I have beaten DA2 twice and have had about 10 different other characters in various states of playthrough. I've deleted more DA2 Hawkes than I've created DAO Wardens.
*I LOVE the art of DA2. It is very distinctive. DAO could be anything. A random screen cap of DAO wouldn't make me immediately recognize it as DAO if I hadn't played it to exhaustion (I can recognise plenty of other games I've never played because they have a particular style). DA2 is inarguably DA2 no matter where the shot is taken.
*I loved the companions- I adore Fenris, he is always in my party; I love Anders depending on playthrough; I like Carver's rivalry more than Bethany's friendship, but I enjoy them both; I like Isabela when she's not being stereotypically nympho; I adore Sebastian and hate that he's not a full party member or properly romancible and I love to hate how pious and chaste he is; I would totally have Hawke/Varric babies if I could; I can see the appeal of Merril, I just haven't found a Hawke that clicks with her; I adore Aveline. Aside from Alistair and Zevran, I could really give or take the other DAO companions, and I actively disliked Wynne and Morrigan, and Leliana just never grew on me. I didn't care for Shale either. Sten was amusing, but not amazing to me. I hated Ogren. I couldn't bring myself to betray Alistair (my warden is a living hero who put him on the throne, so I've never gotten another playthrough far enough to do it).
*I love the tonal approach to dialogue in DA2 and that it gave some slightly different options or special actions depending on personality. I do wish it had been implimented more thoroughly.
*I disliked the waves of enemies, I disliked the lack of an arcane warrior, I disliked not changing armor of companions (and I look forward to be able to change it in DAI while the companion retains their own "look"), I disliked the reused textures and locations, I disliked the shortness of Act3, and so on.

I realize it's pretty fashionable to stroke the hate-on some people have for DA2, saying "everything" about it was bad. Saying "everything" is disingenuous as it comes across as "I just don't like it but I don't have reasons why." I enjoyed them both, but I have played far more of DA2 because it, as a whole, appeals to me more and I like the characters more. I recognize its flaws, and it has a lot of them, but I honestly enjoyed the game immensely. Even after more than a year, I can't slog through DAO again, but I have been playing DA2 nonstop for the last three or four months.

Keep the positive points I outlined, and keep the expansive story, while knitting the companions relationships in tighter, with plenty of unique armor sets, delve deeper into blood magic as an option, and add in NPC and companion reaction to specialization, and I will be a happy camper.

Modifié par d4eaming, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Anomaly-]

Scared? Hopeful would be much more accurate, in my case.

[d4eaming]

scyphozoa wrote...

I think the devs know what they did well in DA2 and what they did poorly. I don't think they are going to recoil or over-correct in response to DA2's reception. I am expecting DA3 to be the best game in the series, as they will be polishing and refining a lot of the features they introduced in DA2.

+1

I haven't played every single Bioware game yet, so I can't say I've never hated one, but I am pretty confident they can  make something I'll enjoy very much, and quite likely love. I am not overly worried, I just find the constant DA2 bashing tedious.

[Heimdall]

I've actually played through DA2 more times than DA:O. DA:O is great but each play through is a bit of a labor for its sheer length and the tediousness of certain sections.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[Nefla]

I really hope they don't end up keeping most of the crap from DA2. Jrpg elves, fetch quests, like 3 unique dungeons that are each 5 minutes long and copy/ pasted over and over, a random pointless water thin plot that doesn't evoke any emotion, poorly done in-your-face "you must be sad!!!" Moments like with Leandra and your first sibling, etc...yeah no thanks.

Modifié par Nefla, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:40 .

[BouncyFrag]

Nefla wrote...

I really hope they don't end up keeping most of the crap from DA2. Jrpg elves, fetch quests, like 3 unique dungeons that are each 5 minutes long and copy/ pasted over and over, a random pointless water thin plot that doesn't evoke any emotion, poorly done in-your-face "you must be sad!!!" Moments like with Leandra and your first sibling, etc...yeah no thanks.

I wish DA2 had an origins style opening in Lothering where you see Hawk and is family in context. Even though the human noble origin in DA:O also had the death of several family members, the lead up to those moments made an emotional impact which was not present when you lost Carver or Bethany.

I had also hoped to see the sacking of Lothering since you only hear second hand information about what had happened. Throwing in the caging of Sten and perhaps an appearance by your Warden, even if it was only from a distance, would have immediatly created a strong bond of continuity between the two games.

On a lighter note, I'd like to have witnessed Sten's epic marathon of playing 'eye-spy' as well as hoping he'd pose riddles to the passersbys, offering them treasures in exchange for correct answers.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:26 .

[Adugan]

I dont dislike DA2 in itself, but for what it did to Dragon Age. If BW made a new series that started with DA2 and called it something else, I would pass it by and not care. However now they destroyed the DA universe with cartoony graphics and stupid storylines. They wont go back to what made DAO good in the first place because that would ****** off all the DA2 fans.

Also part of what made DAO good is the amount of detail, it took 6 years to make. EA will never allow them to spend that long on a game, so theres that.

[upsettingshorts]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It will be impossible to have a thorough and honest discussion over the relative merits of Dragon Age 2 - and what significance they have going forward - if people keep lumping in cut corners like repeated environments with deliberate changes like the dialogue wheel.

Well whaddya know.

Shocking.

[ScotGaymer]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It will be impossible to have a thorough and honest discussion over the relative merits of Dragon Age 2 - and what significance they have going forward - if people keep lumping in cut corners like repeated environments with deliberate changes like the dialogue wheel.

Well whaddya know.

Shocking.

I haven't done that?

Have i?

[AstraDrakkar]

I so wish we could do dance party mods for DA3. I really missed them in DA2. *sigh* Ah I miss the old mods of DAO. They were so much fun.

[upsettingshorts]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I haven't done that?

Have i?

In this case I was referring primarily to Nefla.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Adugan wrote...

I dont dislike DA2 in itself, but for what it did to Dragon Age. If BW made a new series that started with DA2 and called it something else, I would pass it by and not care. However now they destroyed the DA universe with cartoony graphics and stupid storylines. They wont go back to what made DAO good in the first place because that would ****** off all the DA2 fans.

Also part of what made DAO good is the amount of detail, it took 6 years to make. EA will never allow them to spend that long on a game, so theres that.

This^, and not just DA but the whole D&D computer gaming experience.

[philippe willaume]

well i hope they will and i hope they don't at the same time.

regardless what ever DA you like, in DA:2 the companion where much more developed and the companion quest were deeper than in DA.
yet somehow I cared much less about the companion in DA:2 than in DA:0.

Or i much preferred DA:0 combat because it gave me much more options. yet i am not missing the poky-poky shuffle shuffle from DA:0 as i will not miss the twirling or bicycle kicks from DA:2 either

phil

[Cell1e]

I loved DA0 and only liked (just barely) DA2 so will be thrilled if they drop any or all of DA2 ideas and new directions and go with the formula I enjoyed best in any game that I have ever played. (DAO)

But Im very glad a new game is being thought of and developed cause its been a bit of a starvation for me in the game dept lately.

[Cell1e]

Adugan wrote...

I dont dislike DA2 in itself, but for what it did to Dragon Age. If BW made a new series that started with DA2 and called it something else, I would pass it by and not care. However now they destroyed the DA universe with cartoony graphics and stupid storylines. They wont go back to what made DAO good in the first place because that would ****** off all the DA2 fans.

Also part of what made DAO good is the amount of detail, it took 6 years to make. EA will never allow them to spend that long on a game, so theres that.

Really?  Six years??!!! Oh no we will NEVER see a game as good as that again then!!

I feel really bereft and saddened. I understand why big business wouldnt allow for that amount of time being spent on a product but it is such a SHAME cause Im always hoping for the next DAO, the next game that just takes my breath away.