228 réponses à ce sujet

[Adugan]

tishyw wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

If they ditch the 'new' and 'fresh' ideas from DA2, the next game might actually be good.

No more reused environments and over the top hack n slash combat would be a start at least...

This.  I'd also like to add ditching the cartoony art style would help make DA3 a better game as well.

Sorry OP, I'm not worried that they'd ditch "The creativity and new ideas from DA2", I'm hoping they do.

Yes, cartoony graphics have their place, but not in DA. If anyone played The Witcher 2 they would know how well realism plays in these types of games. I am sure some people would love it if DA3 was a hybrid of Minecraft and DA2, but we all know that would be garbage and ruin the franchise. 

Modifié par Adugan, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[Fiacre]

I can live with DA2's graphics if we at least get good looking faces again. Those noses...

As for story... I really, really hope they won't try the personal story angle again. More creative than DAO's, sure, but I vastly prefer DAO's over that -- not only do I just like "bigger" stories better, I was also a lot more interested in my Wardens' personal story than I ever was in my Hawkes'.

[Blue Gloves]

OP- It's really funny, most of the aesthetic stuff you loved
about DAII, I really hated, but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion.  Personally, I liked the juxtaposition of
"normal" and realistic looking characters and settings in a world
filled with abnormal and fantastical ideas and situations, it really brought
home the illusion. I was my warden; my Hawke was just a cartoon character that
I got to play with occasionally.



Also, I wonder if you'd be willing to clarify one specific
point- you mentioned "meaningful and contained" NPC quest givers in a
conversation with Allan, and I assume you meant characters like Macha, Thrask,
Emeric etc.  The reason I ask is: the
fetch quests in DAII were bloody awful imo. 
NPC's that literally do not even impact Hawke in any way other a
sovereign in the pocket for a returned scarf or a lost journal abound.  I agree that the relevancy and impact of the
NPC's named in the aforementioned side quests was far superior to, say: DAO's
underground Denerim (received from the barman at the Gnawed Noble) quests or
the Mage Guild quests, but I felt far more connected to Danyla's poor husband
than I ever did to Ninnette's, even though he and my Hawke shared a tragedy.  I also felt more invested by SGT Kylon's
appeal for help and frustration over his squadron of Noble Bastards and the end
quest for the blackstone irregulars than I ever did for Sebastian’s side quests
(although, I admittedly didn't much care for Sebastian, and that is probably
influencing my opinion unduly.)

Edit:  I should add that I really loved some of the other creative decisions from DAII , particularly the framed narrative, the good guy who posessed no super powers (Radioactive spiders, tainted blood?  No thanks, I just want to save my mom and sister... and make gold, lots of gold) and the long time frame,  Also, I almost feel like it's a no brainer, but the combat was vastly superior in DAII.

Modifié par Blue Gloves, 05 décembre 2012 - 08:44 .

[Bfler]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

You think DA2 was a bad game. You feel passionately that Bioware made many mistakes in regards to the game.
But that does not make it fact.

Fact is, that DAO has better user reviews on almost every place in the I-Net and fact is, that the Ultimate Edition of DAO is more expensive than DA2 (even vanilla DAO without anything else isn't much cheaper than DA2)
Furthermore fact is, that in many retail stores you have to search for copies of DA2, while there are usually enough copies of DAO (UE). 

Modifié par Bfler, 05 décembre 2012 - 08:41 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

poptdp wrote...

dragon age 2 had the BEST combat system and gameplay, only problem i found was lack of 'hub' cities and (obviously) the recycled levels. but i dare say da2 had the best archer and mage gameplay i have ever played in any game!

just love the action-focused combat system.

Not sure if serious. KoA itself destroys it.

[StElmo]

Blue Gloves wrote...

OP- It's really funny, most of the aesthetic stuff you loved
about DAII, I really hated, but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion.  Personally, I liked the juxtaposition of
"normal" and realistic looking characters and settings in a world
filled with abnormal and fantastical ideas and situations, it really brought
home the illusion. I was my warden; my Hawke was just a cartoon character that
I got to play with occasionally.



Also, I wonder if you'd be willing to clarify one specific
point- you mentioned "meaningful and contained" NPC quest givers in a
conversation with Allan, and I assume you meant characters like Macha, Thrask,
Emeric etc.  The reason I ask is: the
fetch quests in DAII were bloody awful imo. 
NPC's that literally do not even impact Hawke in any way other a
sovereign in the pocket for a returned scarf or a lost journal abound.  I agree that the relevancy and impact of the
NPC's named in the aforementioned side quests was far superior to, say: DAO's
underground Denerim (received from the barman at the Gnawed Noble) quests or
the Mage Guild quests, but I felt far more connected to Danyla's poor husband
than I ever did to Ninnette's, even though he and my Hawke shared a tragedy.  I also felt more invested by SGT Kylon's
appeal for help and frustration over his squadron of Noble Bastards and the end
quest for the blackstone irregulars than I ever did for Sebastian’s side quests
(although, I admittedly didn't much care for Sebastian, and that is probably
influencing my opinion unduly.)

Edit:  I should add that I really loved some of the other creative decisions from DAII , particularly the framed narrative, the good guy who posessed no super powers (Radioactive spiders, tainted blood?  No thanks, I just want to save my mom and sister... and make gold, lots of gold) and the long time frame,  Also, I almost feel like it's a no brainer, but the combat was vastly superior in DAII.

Agreed, no more awful than any other fetch quest in a BIOWARE game though.

The thing is, the sideQUESTS, were contained and awesome as a result. in Origins, you helped some elf once, and that was it, got the dalish army problem solved. No more need to visit or talk to them again. That took 20 minutes ok done.

^ boring.

[Blue Gloves]

StElmo wrote...


Agreed, no more awful than any other fetch quest in a BIOWARE game though.

The thing is, the sideQUESTS, were contained and awesome as a result. in Origins, you helped some elf once, and that was it, got the dalish army problem solved. No more need to visit or talk to them again. That took 20 minutes ok done.

^ boring.

:lol:True about the fetch quests- I've always been an advocate of higher coinage in loot drop and ditch the fetch quests altogether actually. 

As to the other quests being contained- yes certainly, but the awesome?  Well... maybe one, possibly two.  In theory I (and probably any writer/ aspiring writer/ hobbyist writer) agree with you, but my beef with these particular quests was that they either didn't resonate very much (bone pit seemed like make work after the initial thrust) or down right didn't make sense (and my non-mage Hawke is a better choice to go into the fade after a kid she sent to the circle...why exactly?).  I cited the Ninnette example before, but really, that was one of the better ones and I still felt disconnected and disinterested in it the moment I left Jethann at the Blooming Rose.  However, I definitely agree with you that there is something to be said for the continued relevance of the DAII quests.

I guess I'd like to see a similar level of containment and relevance of quests, as in DAII, but a better NPC connection and generally sensible, well reasoned plot arch, as in DAO.

[Dutchess]

Adugan wrote...

Yes, cartoony graphics have their place, but not in DA. If anyone played The Witcher 2 they would know how well realism plays in these types of games. I am sure some people would love it if DA3 was a hybrid of Minecraft and DA2, but we all know that would be garbage and ruin the franchise. 

I'm currently playing The Witcher 2 for the first time, and feel like Bioware should be ashamed of DA2's graphics. :?Not that it was always plane ugly; I kinda liked the way the Wounded Coast and the Deep Roads looked. Desire demons looked even more awesome as well. But when it comes to (facial) hair, skin complexion and hands... ugh. I don't like the oversized weapons that seem to be designed for an MMO instead of a "realistic" RPG either. 

[Maria Caliban]

I thought the desire demon wasn't as good looking, and I suspect the devs thought so as well. Unlike DA:O where you could easily get a clear picture of the demon's face during conversations, DA II had a single chat with one where the location was shadowy and her face was much harder to see.



Of course, the desire demon's design has always been a bit odd.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 05 décembre 2012 - 11:03 .

[Dutchess]

Actually, there are two you can chat with. At least if you have the Sebastian dlc.

[ScotGaymer]

Bfler wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

You think DA2 was a bad game. You feel passionately that Bioware made many mistakes in regards to the game.
But that does not make it fact.

Fact is, that DAO has better user reviews on almost every place in the I-Net and fact is, that the Ultimate Edition of DAO is more expensive than DA2 (even vanilla DAO without anything else isn't much cheaper than DA2)
Furthermore fact is, that in many retail stores you have to search for copies of DA2, while there are usually enough copies of DAO (UE). 

And?

That doesn't make DA2 a factually, objectively bad game. It makes it a game that no longer sells well for whatever reason.
And it makes DAO a better game.

[Sidney]

Look DAO sold more and it was a much, much more cookie cutter experience - DAO was a lot of thing but it wasn't bold storytelling it was just well done storytelling. What does Bioware learn, do the cookie cutter.

What do you hear out of them in interviews? Look at how that thar Skyrim sold a bazillion copies. We want to be a lot more like that banal pointless grindfest of a game. Innovative storytelling? no. 24 reconfiguration of the same textures Draugar dungeons ....yes!

No I doubt they take many risks with DA3.

[upsettingshorts]

Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.

They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.

[Sidney]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.

They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.

...and what does one explore in Skyrim? Cookie cutter dungeons with the same foes and the same texture cells rearrnaged in different ways.

[upsettingshorts]

Sidney wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.

They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.

...and what does one explore in Skyrim? Cookie cutter dungeons with the same foes and the same texture cells rearrnaged in different ways.

Who says they're going to do it the exact same way?  

Can you think of a game that does exploration well?  

[Dhiro]

Sidney wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.

They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.

...and what does one explore in Skyrim? Cookie cutter dungeons with the same foes and the same texture cells rearrnaged in different ways.

You can also explore the area around the entrance of the dungeons. You know, that Skyrim place?

[Sidney]

Dhiro wrote...
You can also explore the area around the entrance of the dungeons. You know, that Skyrim place?

Oh wait you mean the areas with nothing in them? Yes, I do so love the advanced walking simulator that Skyrim provides.  I'm not interesting is sightseeing in a video game...I do that in real life.

[upsettingshorts]

Sidney wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
You can also explore the area around the entrance of the dungeons. You know, that Skyrim place?

Oh wait you mean the areas with nothing in them? Yes, I do so love the advanced walking simulator that Skyrim provides.  I'm not interesting is sightseeing in a video game...I do that in real life.

What we've learned in this tangent:

Exploration in games, a broadly popular feature both commercially and critically, is not personally Sidney's cup of tea.

[toto2300]

Well, he's kind of right. For the most part exploration is just aimless wandering in empty grasslands and forest. They should really have more in a smaller area than have a bunch of stuff stretched out over a large distance.

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.

They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.

Which is about the worst news possible for an RPG.

[NasreddinHodja]

Bfler wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

You think DA2 was a bad game. You feel passionately that Bioware made many mistakes in regards to the game.
But that does not make it fact.

Fact is, that DAO has better user reviews on almost every place in the I-Net and fact is, that the Ultimate Edition of DAO is more expensive than DA2 (even vanilla DAO without anything else isn't much cheaper than DA2)
Furthermore fact is, that in many retail stores you have to search for copies of DA2, while there are usually enough copies of DAO (UE). 

Meh.  Quoting ratings and sales figures almost mean nothing.  It's just a bandwagon argument.  Twilight is one of the best-selling young adult series, yet most of us probably would find it horrible (but if I were to write a review of Twilight, I would give it a decent score:  it aims itself to be a popular teenage romance story and it succeeds epicly).  V for Vendetta receives pretty good ratings, but I find the movie to be a boring, highly-derivative anti-Bush propaganda that's not even faithful to the original graphic novel.

Is DA2 and awesome game without flaws?  Of course not!  The area recycling is maddening, just like it was in the first Mass Effect game.  But it's also not completely devoid of new ideas that developers shouldn't try to draw for their next game, like the friendship/rivalry scale or iconic look for companions.

[Melca36]

StElmo wrote...

Blue Gloves wrote...

OP- It's really funny, most of the aesthetic stuff you loved
about DAII, I really hated, but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion.  Personally, I liked the juxtaposition of
"normal" and realistic looking characters and settings in a world
filled with abnormal and fantastical ideas and situations, it really brought
home the illusion. I was my warden; my Hawke was just a cartoon character that
I got to play with occasionally.



Also, I wonder if you'd be willing to clarify one specific
point- you mentioned "meaningful and contained" NPC quest givers in a
conversation with Allan, and I assume you meant characters like Macha, Thrask,
Emeric etc.  The reason I ask is: the
fetch quests in DAII were bloody awful imo. 
NPC's that literally do not even impact Hawke in any way other a
sovereign in the pocket for a returned scarf or a lost journal abound.  I agree that the relevancy and impact of the
NPC's named in the aforementioned side quests was far superior to, say: DAO's
underground Denerim (received from the barman at the Gnawed Noble) quests or
the Mage Guild quests, but I felt far more connected to Danyla's poor husband
than I ever did to Ninnette's, even though he and my Hawke shared a tragedy.  I also felt more invested by SGT Kylon's
appeal for help and frustration over his squadron of Noble Bastards and the end
quest for the blackstone irregulars than I ever did for Sebastian’s side quests
(although, I admittedly didn't much care for Sebastian, and that is probably
influencing my opinion unduly.)

Edit:  I should add that I really loved some of the other creative decisions from DAII , particularly the framed narrative, the good guy who posessed no super powers (Radioactive spiders, tainted blood?  No thanks, I just want to save my mom and sister... and make gold, lots of gold) and the long time frame,  Also, I almost feel like it's a no brainer, but the combat was vastly superior in DAII.

Agreed, no more awful than any other fetch quest in a BIOWARE game though.

The thing is, the sideQUESTS, were contained and awesome as a result. in Origins, you helped some elf once, and that was it, got the dalish army problem solved. No more need to visit or talk to them again. That took 20 minutes ok done.

^ boring.

For $60..........some of us want MORE than this...............





There were almost 2 dozen of these suckers and they were soulless and depthless.


I would rather have less of these quests and **more** sidequests like the Magistrates Orders or Raiders on the Cliffs.


It was ridiculous for Hawke to simply find something and automatically return it. And the only reason we had these type of quests because ME2 had them as well as ME3

These type of quests are equally annoying in those games but they work better in a futuristic setting.

[rolson00]

what i think they carry on is the way the did the story such as giving themselves multible avenues to carry on a story. As much as i like origins it didn't really allow for a sequal, which is what DA2 was mainly about i reckon.

[Sir George Parr]

rolson00 wrote...

what i think they carry on is the way the did the story such as giving themselves multible avenues to carry on a story. As much as i like origins it didn't really allow for a sequal, which is what DA2 was mainly about i reckon.

I felt three things at end of DA 2, which are sequel, more Hawke and Cassandra as a companion/Li. But maybe thats just me.