XM-417 wrote...
I felt three things at end of DA 2, which are sequel, more Hawke and Cassandra as a companion/Li. But maybe thats just me.rolson00 wrote...
what i think they carry on is the way the did the story such as giving themselves multible avenues to carry on a story. As much as i like origins it didn't really allow for a sequal, which is what DA2 was mainly about i reckon.
rolson00 wrote...
XM-417 wrote...
I felt three things at end of DA 2, which are sequel, more Hawke and Cassandra as a companion/Li. But maybe thats just me.rolson00 wrote...
what i think they carry on is the way the did the story such as giving themselves multible avenues to carry on a story. As much as i like origins it didn't really allow for a sequal, which is what DA2 was mainly about i reckon.
people like Cassandra really pee me off in real life all i thort was why the hell should varric tell her anything?
Wulfram wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.
They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.
Which is about the worst news possible for an RPG.
Wulfram wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Read what they actually say about drawing from Skyrim.
They want to re-emphasize exploration in their games. That's all.
Which is about the worst news possible for an RPG.
Guest_Faerunner_*
I know they won't do it.
Direwolf0294 wrote...
I don't know if that's fair. From what I've observed, RPGs that focus on exploration and large worlds tend to suffer when it comes to story and character development, but they make up for that by presenting a really immersive world. It all comes down to what sort of RPGs people prefer, ones with an immersive world, like Skyrim or Fallout: New Vegas, or ones with an immersive story and characters, like Mass Effect or Human Revolutions. Neither one is better than the other, and some people even enjoy both.
Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:51 .
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Immersion is 100% subjective.
Melca36 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
Blue Gloves wrote...
OP- It's really funny, most of the aesthetic stuff you loved
about DAII, I really hated, but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion. Personally, I liked the juxtaposition of
"normal" and realistic looking characters and settings in a world
filled with abnormal and fantastical ideas and situations, it really brought
home the illusion. I was my warden; my Hawke was just a cartoon character that
I got to play with occasionally.
Also, I wonder if you'd be willing to clarify one specific
point- you mentioned "meaningful and contained" NPC quest givers in a
conversation with Allan, and I assume you meant characters like Macha, Thrask,
Emeric etc. The reason I ask is: the
fetch quests in DAII were bloody awful imo.
NPC's that literally do not even impact Hawke in any way other a
sovereign in the pocket for a returned scarf or a lost journal abound. I agree that the relevancy and impact of the
NPC's named in the aforementioned side quests was far superior to, say: DAO's
underground Denerim (received from the barman at the Gnawed Noble) quests or
the Mage Guild quests, but I felt far more connected to Danyla's poor husband
than I ever did to Ninnette's, even though he and my Hawke shared a tragedy. I also felt more invested by SGT Kylon's
appeal for help and frustration over his squadron of Noble Bastards and the end
quest for the blackstone irregulars than I ever did for Sebastian’s side quests
(although, I admittedly didn't much care for Sebastian, and that is probably
influencing my opinion unduly.)
Edit: I should add that I really loved some of the other creative decisions from DAII , particularly the framed narrative, the good guy who posessed no super powers (Radioactive spiders, tainted blood? No thanks, I just want to save my mom and sister... and make gold, lots of gold) and the long time frame, Also, I almost feel like it's a no brainer, but the combat was vastly superior in DAII.
Agreed, no more awful than any other fetch quest in a BIOWARE game though.
The thing is, the sideQUESTS, were contained and awesome as a result. in Origins, you helped some elf once, and that was it, got the dalish army problem solved. No more need to visit or talk to them again. That took 20 minutes ok done.
^ boring.
For $60..........some of us want MORE than this...............
There were almost 2 dozen of these suckers and they were soulless and depthless.
I would rather have less of these quests and **more** sidequests like the Magistrates Orders or Raiders on the Cliffs.
It was ridiculous for Hawke to simply find something and automatically return it. And the only reason we had these type of quests because ME2 had them as well as ME3
These type of quests are equally annoying in those games but they work better in a futuristic setting.
Modifié par esper, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:59 .
Bernhardtbr wrote...
Direwolf0294 wrote...
I don't know if that's fair. From what I've observed, RPGs that focus on exploration and large worlds tend to suffer when it comes to story and character development, but they make up for that by presenting a really immersive world. It all comes down to what sort of RPGs people prefer, ones with an immersive world, like Skyrim or Fallout: New Vegas, or ones with an immersive story and characters, like Mass Effect or Human Revolutions. Neither one is better than the other, and some people even enjoy both.
Immersive for you. Not everyone wants the possbility of talking to 100 guards that were adventurers before taking an arrow to the knee.
So, you think books and series like Game of Thrones are not immersive? Because the story is linear and dialogues never change in those. Go check what immersion is instead of spouting your PERSONAL taste as immersion.
Cell1e wrote...
Adugan wrote...
I dont dislike DA2 in itself, but for what it did to Dragon Age. If BW made a new series that started with DA2 and called it something else, I would pass it by and not care. However now they destroyed the DA universe with cartoony graphics and stupid storylines. They wont go back to what made DAO good in the first place because that would ****** off all the DA2 fans.
Also part of what made DAO good is the amount of detail, it took 6 years to make. EA will never allow them to spend that long on a game, so theres that.
Really?Six years??!!! Oh no we will NEVER see a game as good as that again then!!
I feel really bereft and saddened. I understand why big business wouldnt allow for that amount of time being spent on a product but it is such a SHAME cause Im always hoping for the next DAO, the next game that just takes my breath away.
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Um, about that.
Not all six years were spent moving forward. They started out making the game for an entirely different engine, for example. It's not that hard to find DA:O screenshots working in the NWN engine. Likewise the game was delayed even further near release because it wasn't completely ready yet. Those were not six years well spent.
I do not think it is a coincidence that BioWare was sold, not once but twice, during the time DA:O was in development hell.
Nobody wants to spend six years making a game. Note: I've heard the number fall anywhere between 5-7 years for Origins. DA2 was 11 months. A more typical cycle is close to 2 years.
DA3 will have an advantage over DA2 though in that it appears to have a proper development cycle.
Pseudocognition wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Nobody wants to spend six years making a game. Note: I've heard the number fall anywhere between 5-7 years for Origins. DA2 was 11 months. A more typical cycle is close to 2 years.
Yup.
Ordinarily, when a game is in development for more than 3 years, it's either a MMO, a Final Fantasy or Duke Nukem Forever.
Or Half Life 2 Episode 3.
In other words, its not a good sign.
esper wrote...
Melca36 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
Blue Gloves wrote...
OP- It's really funny, most of the aesthetic stuff you loved
about DAII, I really hated, but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion. Personally, I liked the juxtaposition of
"normal" and realistic looking characters and settings in a world
filled with abnormal and fantastical ideas and situations, it really brought
home the illusion. I was my warden; my Hawke was just a cartoon character that
I got to play with occasionally.
Also, I wonder if you'd be willing to clarify one specific
point- you mentioned "meaningful and contained" NPC quest givers in a
conversation with Allan, and I assume you meant characters like Macha, Thrask,
Emeric etc. The reason I ask is: the
fetch quests in DAII were bloody awful imo.
NPC's that literally do not even impact Hawke in any way other a
sovereign in the pocket for a returned scarf or a lost journal abound. I agree that the relevancy and impact of the
NPC's named in the aforementioned side quests was far superior to, say: DAO's
underground Denerim (received from the barman at the Gnawed Noble) quests or
the Mage Guild quests, but I felt far more connected to Danyla's poor husband
than I ever did to Ninnette's, even though he and my Hawke shared a tragedy. I also felt more invested by SGT Kylon's
appeal for help and frustration over his squadron of Noble Bastards and the end
quest for the blackstone irregulars than I ever did for Sebastian’s side quests
(although, I admittedly didn't much care for Sebastian, and that is probably
influencing my opinion unduly.)
Edit: I should add that I really loved some of the other creative decisions from DAII , particularly the framed narrative, the good guy who posessed no super powers (Radioactive spiders, tainted blood? No thanks, I just want to save my mom and sister... and make gold, lots of gold) and the long time frame, Also, I almost feel like it's a no brainer, but the combat was vastly superior in DAII.
Agreed, no more awful than any other fetch quest in a BIOWARE game though.
The thing is, the sideQUESTS, were contained and awesome as a result. in Origins, you helped some elf once, and that was it, got the dalish army problem solved. No more need to visit or talk to them again. That took 20 minutes ok done.
^ boring.
For $60..........some of us want MORE than this...............
There were almost 2 dozen of these suckers and they were soulless and depthless.
I would rather have less of these quests and **more** sidequests like the Magistrates Orders or Raiders on the Cliffs.
It was ridiculous for Hawke to simply find something and automatically return it. And the only reason we had these type of quests because ME2 had them as well as ME3
These type of quests are equally annoying in those games but they work better in a futuristic setting.
If we must have fecth quest, and apparently we must in an rpgs for some reason, I prefer da2's. At least they were over in two seconds flat and if you read the codex thay made okay sense.
I still have nightmare about finding 18 corspe galls in da:o and 10 garnets and so forth. And I can admit without shame that those quests were still unfinished when my game ended, because honestly it was a blight and people could get their own garnets.
At least in da2 I could do it when I was walking around town hearing banter anyway, quickly over with and relatively painless.
esper wrote...
If we must have fecth quest, and apparently we must in an rpgs for some reason, I prefer da2's. At least they were over in two seconds flat and if you read the codex thay made okay sense.
I still have nightmare about finding 18 corspe galls in da:o and 10 garnets and so forth. And I can admit without shame that those quests were still unfinished when my game ended, because honestly it was a blight and people could get their own garnets.
At least in da2 I could do it when I was walking around town hearing banter anyway, quickly over with and relatively painless.
Bernhardtbr wrote...
My point is that an open world isn´t a necessary condition for immersion for all people. I can fully understand that for some, having to click on area B to move from area A sucks, but to others that´s not important.
The time you spent moving, likewise, dilutes the experience. Imagine you had to walk 3 miles to see the next part of a movie. Not very interesting is it? Likewise not everyone enjoys walking and seeing scenery hours and hours, and then interacting with characters or the plot only for a fraction of that time. Are you free to walk in the entire Citadel in Mass Effect? No. Does it mean it´s not awesome? No. Bioware has its way of doing things and I hope it stays that way.
infraredman wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Um, about that.
Not all six years were spent moving forward. They started out making the game for an entirely different engine, for example. It's not that hard to find DA:O screenshots working in the NWN engine. Likewise the game was delayed even further near release because it wasn't completely ready yet. Those were not six years well spent.
I do not think it is a coincidence that BioWare was sold, not once but twice, during the time DA:O was in development hell.
Nobody wants to spend six years making a game. Note: I've heard the number fall anywhere between 5-7 years for Origins. DA2 was 11 months. A more typical cycle is close to 2 years.
DA3 will have an advantage over DA2 though in that it appears to have a proper development cycle.
11 months? Really? Holy Crap. I mean they obviously cut a profusion of corners...but I'm almost impressed by what they did manage to do in 11 months.
NasreddinHodja wrote...
infraredman wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
Um, about that.
Not all six years were spent moving forward. They started out making the game for an entirely different engine, for example. It's not that hard to find DA:O screenshots working in the NWN engine. Likewise the game was delayed even further near release because it wasn't completely ready yet. Those were not six years well spent.
I do not think it is a coincidence that BioWare was sold, not once but twice, during the time DA:O was in development hell.
Nobody wants to spend six years making a game. Note: I've heard the number fall anywhere between 5-7 years for Origins. DA2 was 11 months. A more typical cycle is close to 2 years.
DA3 will have an advantage over DA2 though in that it appears to have a proper development cycle.
11 months? Really? Holy Crap. I mean they obviously cut a profusion of corners...but I'm almost impressed by what they did manage to do in 11 months.
^This. You can agree or disagree on whether or not DA2 is a good game, but one thing you can't say is that the developers were lazy.
Direwolf0294 wrote...
Not to get into an arguement, but that's exactly what I said in my original post. I made a point of saying that some people prefer Skyrims way of doing things, some Mass Effects, but neither is better than the other and some people enjoy both. I also said that BioWare tends not to not have open worlds, that it is a legitimate concern that the game will suffer if they attempt to have open worlds, but if they insist of having an open world I hope they avoid the mistakes they made with TOR.
rolson00 wrote...
XM-417 wrote...
I felt three things at end of DA 2, which are sequel, more Hawke and Cassandra as a companion/Li. But maybe thats just me.rolson00 wrote...
what i think they carry on is the way the did the story such as giving themselves multible avenues to carry on a story. As much as i like origins it didn't really allow for a sequal, which is what DA2 was mainly about i reckon.
people like Cassandra really pee me off in real life all i thort was why the hell should varric tell her anything?
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