75 réponses à ce sujet

[mousestalker]

Pretty much, yes. Remember that you will get stat bonuses in the Fade.

[kongenial]

But take in account that even a dex rouge will not always hit and sometimes get hit. Anyway in my opinion an rogue should be dexterous and not that cunning

[Gavpwn]

I'm new to Dragon Age in general and I really want to make my first character a keeper. I've had to restart him for the third time now but I really want to know:

1) What base stats should I have for a Assassin/Duelist Dag/Dag CUN Rogue?
2) I hear CUN Rogues are the best for pure Melee Combat DPS with Lethality. True?
3) Gear? I'm rather confused about people's views on STR points and the item Buffs so there's no need to spend extra attribute points.

I just need some serious help.

Assassin/Duelist Dag/Dag CUN Rogue is what I want to build but I need some advice.. a lot of advice in fact on how to build him.

I'm a Dwarf Noble. Originally Commoner but I like the fact that I can leave Orzammar with over 25 Gold and having had a Threesome. (Bonus)

Any help would be much appreciated for my build.

Thank you. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 04:44 .

[Elhanan]

As a dagger wielding Cun Rogue, possibly try:

STR 20-22
DEX 30-36
Will 20-30
Mgc Base
CON Base
Cunning max

I would recommend getting STR to 20 ASAP for using the best light armors, as well as Cunning to 16 for Skills.

Head to Denerim to meet Gorim again, and he will be your main merchant/ fence for selling your pricier loot. If you have the Golem DLC mace, sell it to him for almost double the usual offers.

And I advise skipping Evasion after gaining Lethality, as the animations will hinder your DPS auto-attack routines.

P.S. I actually recommend skipping Lethality tier altogether, take STR to 38-42, and don't worry about the Overwhelms when wearing heavy and/or massive armors. Sorry gang; gotta be me.

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:32 .

[soteria]

I used to hate Evasion, but then I found out that it can stop Scattershot and Overwhelm and stuff--abilities that are normally auto-hit. The animation is still annoying, but it's cool to know you can fight a dragon and completely ignore 1/5 attacks. IMO if you are trying to make a tough rogue such as Elhanan's favored strength build, it's still worth taking.

[Elhanan]

soteria wrote...

I used to hate Evasion, but then I found out that it can stop Scattershot and Overwhelm and stuff--abilities that are normally auto-hit. The animation is still annoying, but it's cool to know you can fight a dragon and completely ignore 1/5 attacks. IMO if you are trying to make a tough rogue such as Elhanan's favored strength build, it's still worth taking.

I dislike Evasion for my Wardens, but enjoy gifting it to LIl and Zev.

[Gavpwn]

I was hoping to only pump:
STR: 20: For the best light armor in the game.
DEX: 26-30: For abilities.
CUN: MAX: For Lethality.

I'll post a more detailed description of my build (Skills included too) when I get home but I'm at work at the moment.
A lot of experienced players say to Buff up STR via items but being new to the entire game I'm not sure I want to waste my time collecting all these items so I'm planning on getting STR to 20 (or is it worth getting it to 16 and waiting for the Fade and using the +4 Buff? Even though I haven't discovered the Mage Tower yet. Or is the Fade quite far into the Game/Story?)

Cheers for the swift reply and advice by the way. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 02:29 .

[13Dannyboy13]

Gavpwn wrote...

I was hoping to only pump:
STR: 20: For the best light armor in the game.
DEX: 26-30: For abilities.
CUN: MAX: For Lethality.

I'll post a more detailed description of my build (Skills included too) when I get home but I'm at work at the moment.
A lot of experienced players say to Buff up STR via items but being new to the entire game I'm not sure I want to waste my time collecting all these items so I'm planning on getting STR to 20 (or is it worth getting it to 16 and waiting for the Fade and using the +4 Buff? Even though I haven't discovered the Mage Tower yet. Or is the Fade quite far into the Game/Story?)

Cheers for the swift reply and advice by the way. =)

You can do the fade any time you want really, if you wanted to, you could run through Lothering and go straight to the tower. But once you're in there you're in till you're finished, might want to strengthen your characters a bit first.

[Gavpwn]

Well I'll make sure I get all I can out of Lothering before I go to the tower. I think I was level 8 on my first character when I was questing in Lothering plus it'll save me 4 Attribute Points that could be well spent elsewhere.

The Talents I was planning to get are:

Rogue:

Dirty Fighting>Combat Movement>Coupe De Grace.
Below The Belt>Deadly Strike>Lethality. (Possibly Feign Death)
Not sure about Deft Hands right now. Advice?
Stealth>Stealthy Item Use>Combat Stealth.

Dual Weapon:

Dual Weapon Training>Dual Weapon Finesse>Dual Weapon Expert.
Second line doesn't seem particularly worth it. Dual Striking cancels out back stabs and criticals and that means I'm spending 2 points on Riposte. I think not.
Dual Weapon Sweep>Momentum>Flurry.

Like I said before I'm speccing Assassin/Duelist Dag/Dag CUN Rogue but I'm still yet to discover the Assassin and Duelist Spec quests/tomes. So I'll think about that when it comes down to it. I just want to focus on the basics right now. Just to get my head around things. I don't want to jump in at the deep end. Considering how obsessive I am over making characters. Third time's the charm, I hope. Haha. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 04:41 .

[soteria]

Depending on how quickly you raise cunning, you may or may not want/need points in deft hands. On paper, it's possible to get enough cunning that you don't need any. In practice, early on you probably want at least 1 point.

Your plan looks fine. I like Riposte as it's a second chance to stun the enemy, but rogues have a lot of places to spend their talents and it may not be worth two points. I also like whirlwind, but it's probably only rarely worth using for a rogue. Bear in mind, though, that you can use dw sweep and whirlwind and then vanish with combat stealth, making it an easy way to safely deal a lot of damage.

[Gavpwn]

Hm. That's true but is it really worth the extra points?
I mean. I'm all for burst damage then skulking back into the shadows but I do like a good backstabbing too. I'm not really sure if I'd use that technique enough either.

Another point you just brought up that I need answered too is:
1) What skills should I go for?
2) How many points in each do I need?

I was thinking about:
Coercion (Not sure how many levels) - CUN comes into though, right?
Combat Tactics (3) - Increased damage and critical chance.
Poison (1) - I've heard I can use higher Poisons other character make for me.
Stealing (1) - Quests in Denerim.
Trap Making (1) - Same as Poisons.

I just want to make sure I'm not wasting points on things that I don't actually need if my CUN is high enough. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:25 .

[Elhanan]

Riposte is well worth it, as is Punisher. But Whirlwind was mostly used by me just to gain that linked Achievement.

Coersion is also well worth the invested points for all. I also enjoy Combat Training, Survival, Stealing, and a single rank of Poison.

Combat Tactics are not required for a Player controlled PC. If you were to leave the Warden alone for long periods while controlling others, then it becomes beneficial, IMO.

Deft Hands needs a score of 70 to become almost completely effective. This can be achieved by 70 pts Cunning, Deft Hands(4)=40 + 30 Cunning, or some mix of the two.

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:43 .

[HighSpeedDirtuk]

Elhanan wrote...

P.S. I actually recommend skipping Lethality tier altogether, take STR to 38-42, and don't worry about the Overwhelms when wearing heavy and/or massive armors. Sorry gang; gotta be me.

I agree.  I used to use cunning rogues until i read some of Elhanan's STR rogue build strats. Gave me a fresh look on the rogue.

[Gavpwn]

Still wondering whether to go to Riposte or not but I'm thinking no.
I hear Punisher isn't that great for Back Stabbers either though.

So I should get 4 ranks of Coercion?
I'm not a fan of Survival but Combat Training is a must.
So I should get maybe 1 or 2 ranks of Deft Hands?
Poison (1) and Trap Making (1) might come in handy too.
As for Stealing.. I may just get 1 rank in that too.
I don't really see the point in it except for the Quests in Denerim.
This is a lot more difficult than I first imagined.. Haha.

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 07:21 .

[Elhanan]

Basically, any Talent that grants Stun and/or Knockdown is good for the arsenal. And as for my play, I tire of auto-attack routines, and want to spice it up a bit.

Cannot advise on Traps; never used them.

[Gavpwn]

That may be true but I'm not sure if Riposte is worth the 2 talent points. If I do get it then it will be later in the game but not right now. I want to get Lethality for example as soon as possible. =)
Auto-Attack may grow tiresome but I don't mind too much. I'm a tactics person and want to make the most of this character.

Hm.. Looks like I'll have to do more research in the Traps department too.. >_<

Modifié par Gavpwn, 04 janvier 2011 - 07:59 .

[Yrkoon]

Gavpwn wrote...

That may be true but I'm not sure if Riposte is worth the 2 talent points.  

  It's not.   Riposte  really only has one purpose for a DPS rogue.  a minor one.  It stuns your opponent, and if your Rogue happens to also have Coup De Grace, this means a couple of insts-backstabs afterwords.

But  since there's so many ways  for your party to stun/paralyse your opponent, you don't really need it.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 janvier 2011 - 01:13 .

[soteria]

Lethality, Coup de Grace, and Momentum are your 3 most important talents as a cunning rogue. Combat Stealth would be my next goal after getting those. As Yrkoon says, Riposte is valuable for the stun because of Coup de Grace. Whether or not you want another stun will depend on your group.

One thing to consider about Punisher: it's a knockdown. I've never taken it on a rogue or thought I needed it, but I think people forget or don't realize that knockdowns are, bar none, the best CC vs humanoids. See, the duration of a knockdown is locked to the animation speed. So rather than stun an elite boss and have it last half a second, you could knock it on its butt and have it last for the full duration.

Yes, you want to max combat training, and a point in stealing and poisons. I like survival, but I guess you can take that on a companion. I'm not into traps. That leaves persuasion, and if you're not maxing out survival or something else, I'm not sure what else you're going to spend skill points on if not there.

[Gavpwn]

Lethality, Coup de Grace, and Momentum are your 3 most important talents as a cunning rogue. Combat Stealth would be my next goal after getting those. As Yrkoon says, Riposte is valuable for the stun because of Coup de Grace. Whether or not you want another stun will depend on your group.

Soteria, That's exactly what I was thinking. It only makes sense to go for those talents in that order.
Lethality due to CUN determining your DMG instead of STR.
Coup de Grace for the Face Stabbing.
Momentum for the ATK SPD increase.
Combat Stealth just for the pure fact that it's an instantly drops AGRO.
(Perhaps 1 or 2 points in Deft Hands Tree)

Riposte is handy for the fact of the extra stun, you're right. Yet in my opinion it's not worth the 2 points that you have to spend. I'm glad we're agreed on that front. I really want to rely on a Mage to freeze and/or an AoE Stun affect like the Dog uses.

As for Skills:
Coercion: (2-3) - As a CUN Rogue I won't need 4.. Maybe not even 3.
Combat Training: (3) - I don't want to use Full Size Weapons.
Poison: (1)
Stealing: (1)
As for Trap Making I'm not sure if I will use it to it's full capability/at all. Many people say it's handy for cutting enemies down to size. This is the main skill I've been mulling over for a while. It would be handy with Item Use Stealth and Combat Stealth but I won't be getting those until after Lethality, Coup de Grace and Momentum. Otherwise Trap Making is useless.

What about Origin?

I've tried both Dwarf Commoner and Noble Origins and found both interesting, Noble a little more and what particularly attracts me is that you can leave Orzammar with over 25 Gold which is quite handy. It's also an interesting twist for the Noble story line compared to the generic Noble Warrior or Common Rogue. Even if the Noble starts with Sword and Shield there is still Daggers in the inventory so.. That's a no brainer.

This may seem a little over obsessive but I've always been like this with character customisation. Heh.. >_<

Modifié par Gavpwn, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:29 .

[Yrkoon]

Gavpwn wrote...

What about Origin?

I've tried both Dwarf Commoner and Noble Origins and found both interesting, Noble a little more and what particularly attracts me is that you can leave Orzammar with over 25 Gold which is quite handy. It's also an interesting twist for the Noble story line compared to the generic Noble Warrior or Common Rogue. Even if the Noble starts with Sword and Shield there is still Daggers in the inventory so.. That's a no brainer.

This may seem a little over obsessive but I've always been like this with character customisation. Heh.. >_<

There's nothing wrong w/ being "obsessive" to the point of   choosing an origin based on "powergaming" purposes.  It's how I typically choose my origin .   And the 25 gold that you get from the Dwarf Noble origin is a pretty darn good argument to choose it.    Or at least it used to be.   Today, though, there's    the Golems of Amgarrock DLC and the Mace you get from it, which you can sell for a few HUNDRED gold to the first merchant you meet--  enough gold to  buy Roses Thorn and Veshaille right off the bat.

But beyond the gold argument, I'd suggest also looking into which race gives you the best  starting stats to be the rogue you're planning on playing.     Humans get +1 to Cunning.  Dwarves don't.  (no big deal, but still something to think about)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:17 .

[Gavpwn]

Yrkoon wrote:

There's nothing wrong w/ being "obsessive" to the point of   choosing an origin based on "powergaming" purposes.  It's how I typically choose my origin .   And the 25 gold that you get from the Dwarf Noble origin is a pretty darn good argument to choose it.    Or at least it used to be.   Today, though, there's    the Golems of Amgarrock DLC and the Mace you get from it, which you can sell for a few HUNDRED gold to the first merchant you meet--  enough gold to  buy Roses Thorn and Veshaille right off the bat.

That's very true but that's also a very good reason to start a Dwarf Noble. Gorim in Denerim gives you a lot more gold for it than any other merchant in the entire game. (Or so I read.) Which is well worth the wait in the long run.
But I only have Origins at the moment and no DLC. I'm going to buy 'Awakening' but not for a little while yet. (I also want 'The Stone Prisoner' DLC for Shale.. Dwarven creation protecting a Dwarf.)

Yrkoon wrote:

But beyond the gold argument, I'd suggest also looking into which race gives you the best  starting stats to be the rogue you're planning on playing.     Humans get +1 to Cunning.  Dwarves don't.  (no big deal, but still something to think about)

I'm 100% going for a Dwarf. I've perfected my character's face and I've always liked the idea of Dwarf Rogues. They're short, nimble and in the Noble story line there is a lot of assassinations (Assassin) and I can just imagine a Dwarf Noble duelling with comrades and foes. (Duelist) - The 2 Specs I'm going to take up. Cast out from his Kingdom relying on his cunning ( ;D ) to make a name for himself in the Human Realm.

Such an RP Geek.. Haha. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:27 .

[AhzekAhiman]

I am playing a Human Noble CUN Dag/Dag Rogue, and was looking at some possible equipment that would up the damage as much as possible.  So far I've put my points in CUN as I've got my DEX to where it needs to be, though seeing Duncan's Sword, coupled with the Dead Thaig Shanker, wouldn't that be worth the extra few points in STR as you get a combined bonus of +8 CUN (+3 from Sword, +5 from Shanker)?  My STR so far is 20+8, with not much going to change as far as losing any of my STR bonuses, as most, if not all is from items that give +2 to all attributes, or will be exchanged for an accessory that gives such a bonus.  The only loss in CUN would be one level, which would go to STR to be able to equip the Sword.

Or, would Duncan's Dagger, with its +10% crit/backstab dmg offer more than what +5 CUN would give you with your Lethality bonus as an offhand weap?

Anyone have any ideas on this?  I hope this is in the right forum

Modifié par AhzekAhiman, 02 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[The Sexiness]

My recommended build for a DW DPS Rogue is:

Origin:City Elf
Recommended Specs:
(Origins)
Strength: 20 or 22 for armor
Dexterity:38 at the Most
Willpower:18
Cunning: 40 or somewhere around the 40's
Constitution:18
I could be wrong on the stats but that was my best DW Rogue Build for Origins and he never died in Combat.
Skills: All Combat Training
All Coercion
Poison Making III
Talents: Rogue Tree First Row up to the 3rd Branch
Second Row All Branches
No Lock Picking Leliana served as my main Lock Picking Expert and Ranged Support
Assassin Tree up the the 3rd Branch
Duelist up to Keen Defense
Dual Wielding Tree:
All DW Weapon Masteries
Dual Striking
Last Row up to Momentum

My Rogue mainly relied upon using the Lethality and Evasion talents to survive his fights and whenever I got the opportunity to increase his cunning further with accessories and armor I did so. I also used sleep and paralysis runes on my weapons to increase backstabs. I also kept Alistair in my party as a Tank DPS with Leliana and Wynne acting as support and ranged/magic(healing)

In Awakening my Rogue became pretty beast. The Rogue and Mage frail in comparison with the Warrior class cause they can fill any role the Warrior class normally can once in Awakening the Mage can Practically solo the game if it wanted to with the right build...... T_T Warrior needed better balancing is all I need to say....

[TheBigMatt90]

If you are a cun rogue why on earth take duellist? The damage/crit/att bonus from Bard's song of courage is insane, duellist adds some att and def. So no, duellist is not optimal.

[Last Darkness]

TheBigMatt90 wrote...

If you are a cun rogue why on earth take duellist? The damage/crit/att bonus from Bard's song of courage is insane, duellist adds some att and def. So no, duellist is not optimal.

I agree

Ive found what works best is a heavy weapons skill spamming rogue. (Warriors are better with Daggers)

Aim for 36 Dex, 60+ Str, and 20ish Cun. If you can spare it some Will helps for skill spams unless you have +stamaina gear.

Duel wield main hand weapons, like veshialle(x2 if you can) and/or starfang.  

Duelest/Ranger works best ive noticed.


Cun based rogues work best for backstabing since you can ignore your attack score since backstab = auto hit.