89 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

BG 2 had more words than BG 1. DA:O had more words than KotOR or NWN. ME 2 had more words than ME 1.

I disagree that more cinematics leads to less words.

[Orian Tabris]

David Gaider wrote...

Essentially we need to start from somewhere, and that all starts with people much further up the chain than someone at my level.

Above your level?

So... like someone from EA?

After Mike Laidlaw, I'm pretty sure there aren't many people above you.

[David Gaider]

Orian Tabris wrote...
After Mike Laidlaw, I'm pretty sure there aren't many people above you.

I am a sub-lead... meaning the Lead Designer is above me (as are the other leads), the Project Director, the Director of Design as well as the BioWare GM. Among others. And that's before one gets to the EA level. So, no, my authority over the project at large is fairly limited.

[d4eaming]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
After Mike Laidlaw, I'm pretty sure there aren't many people above you.

I am a sub-lead... meaning the Lead Designer is above me (as are the other leads), the Project Director, the Director of Design as well as the BioWare GM. Among others. And that's before one gets to the EA level. So, no, my authority over the project at large is fairly limited.

You have a Game Master? Why can't I have a Game Master instead of a regular ol' manager? Would make work more interesting! Role d20 initiative for lunch time!

[mesmerizedish]

General Manager.

[FaWa]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Are you asking what the likelihood would be of EA/BioWare doing a kickstarter if we felt we needed additional funding to match our vision for DA3?

While I am never keen on talking in absolutes, I would bet large sums of money on it not happening.

lol this would be awful. "Get us to $1000 and we'll add in 5 extra multiplayer weapons. 100000 and we'll add kinect support! a million and we'll release a Wii version!"

[d4eaming]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

General Manager.

Whoosh.

[Orian Tabris]

d4eaming wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
After Mike Laidlaw, I'm pretty sure there aren't many people above you.

I am a sub-lead... meaning the Lead Designer is above me (as are the other leads), the Project Director, the Director of Design as well as the BioWare GM. Among others. And that's before one gets to the EA level. So, no, my authority over the project at large is fairly limited.

You have a Game Master? Why can't I have a Game Master instead of a regular ol' manager? Would make work more interesting! Role d20 initiative for lunch time!

I wonder what it would have been like living with Gary Gygax. If he's anything like they wrote him in Futurama, I'm betting everyone would make that a joke not unlike bold, while they're around him.

So, Gaider, your like level 5 (level 1 being the top) in BioWare, then? Unless, I'm forgetting the Senior Vice President and other people, in which case... maybe level 7?

I'm just gonna go with level 5. I'm sure there's no official hierarchy! A blank piece of white card with everyone's faces in a close-up photo, displaying who is where, with their name written under the photo. If there were, people like me and other BSN forumites would be situated at the bottom, assuming metaphorical BioWare employees (BSN forumites, other fans, mods like Woo, etc.) are worthy of note/significant enough.

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[d4eaming]

Orian Tabris wrote...

I wonder what it would have been like living with Gary Gygax. If he's anything like they wrote him in Futurama, I'm betting everyone would make that a joke not unlike bold, while they're around him.

So, Gaider, your like level 5 (level 1 being the top) in BioWare, then? Unless, I'm forgetting the Senior Vice President and other people, in which case... maybe level 7?

I'm just gonna go with level 5. I'm sure there's no official hierarchy! A blank piece of white card with everyone's faces in a close-up photo, displaying who is where, with their name written under the photo. If there were, people like me and other BSN forumites would be situated at the bottom, assuming metaphorical BioWare employees (BSN forumites, other fans, mods like Woo, etc.) are worthy of note/significant enough.

Oh Gary Gygax, my life would be so much more boring if not for you.

I've watched way too much Futurama but I can't recall the episode with him in it. I'll need to look it up!

Modifié par d4eaming, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[AmstradHero]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
im suddenly having a mad scientist vision of using a piano keyboard to select timbre and pacing of the words, where you could select higher and lower pitches and determine the pacing of the words. 

Funny you should mention that. On a few occasions, I've actually used a pitch bend to do a subtle modification of tone in VA recorded dialogue. I will state that most of the time this doesn't work and I just get the VA to re-record the line.

@EntropicAngel: Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Hopefully I'll get The Shattered War done sooner rather than later so you can try that too.

@UpsettingShorts & Allan Schumacher: LOL! Well, if I ever get told to change my handle, then AmistadHero will definitely be my next port of call.

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

I am a sub-lead... meaning the Lead Designer is above me (as are the other leads), the Project Director, the Director of Design as well as the BioWare GM. Among others. And that's before one gets to the EA level. So, no, my authority over the project at large is fairly limited.

Like the whole elf shoe thing?

AmstradHero wrote...

@UpsettingShorts & Allan Schumacher: LOL! Well, if I ever get told to change my handle, then AmistadHero will definitely be my next port of call.

Lol, I thought the same thing, which led me to think you were a history nerd or something.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 décembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[Kulyok]

It is just unfair that a letter from Carver and some codex entry about a husband and wife who met a desire demon weigh the same in the word budget category. Or, speaking of voiced lines, that some "investigate" options in quests like Magistrate's Orders or unnecessary questions("why are you giving me this quest? no, why are you giving me this quest?") in Aveline's The Way It Should Be(not the questions about her dead husband!) weigh the same as a story of Fenris's escape from Danarius. Sigh. It does sound unfair - I wish there were more Fenris/Anders lovetalks and letters from Carver and fewer "mandatory investigate options for every minor quest" and codex options about how King Calenhad was a dirty cheater. But I guess I miss BG2 times when Jaheira and Viconia each had over 30 lovetalks(while DA2 had about one or two per act).

[Gyrefalcon]

nightscrawl wrote...

Navasha wrote...

What could the writer do if that was 600 words?    More player responses, more NPC reactions?  Maybe longer descriptions in quest journals.

It might not be a case of more options though.

Let's take a known dialog: Fenris explaining why he is leaving after that first love scene. Maybe when David originally wrote it those lines had 10 or 20 more words. With a word budget he would have to alter the language so Fenris still says the same thing but in a slightly different way, because he has to use fewer words. I don't think the writers craft a scene around the amount of words. I think they probably write a scene and then whittle it down as the budget demands, probably going through several drafts.

Of course I could be wrong about all of that, but it seems most logical to me. Sitting down and saying "OK I'm going to make my character say this in 25 words" seems like it would put a tremendous strain on the creative process.

If it IS as I described, they can't just add these things as they would change the entire game. Existing conversations would be dramatically altered. And too, when you write a conversation, you know all of the options that exist for the PC to say, so you write your character's lines to respond to those.

I suspect you are dead on.  Most writers don't look at the word budget first, they craft first and then cut it down according to story size.  Everyone seems to be assuming that they are losing dialogue gems.  This is sometimes true, but editing also cuts out poorly writen sections or things that drone on too long and affect the game balance.  All authors have to edit and the quote "kill your darlings" is all about being ruthless about your rewrites.  If you want to see how keeping too much content can ruin something, I humbly suggest watching the remake of horror movie "Willard".  Then you may actually want to compare it to the original, or watch Captain America or an Akira Kurosawa film.   You will see how a film (and by extention a game) can drag if things aren't cut out to achieve the pacing that is desired. 

That said, the idea of a larger game, with more carefully worked out dialogue does sound nice and Bioware is promising a much larger game in Inquisition.  So we may see a lot more scenes with the characters we enjoy.  DA2 was cut back a lot from DA:  Origins, but realize that it was based off of what the fans asked for (in part).  We simply did not appreciate some of what we had until it was gone.    The Bioware crew are striving towards a balance that will hopefully please most of the fans.  

David Gaider offered a wonderful perspective on what to do/what not to do when writing at the end of the DA:  Asunder Writing contest.  It might help.  http://blog.bioware....he-sand-castle/

[Statulos]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Are you asking what the likelihood would be of EA/BioWare doing a kickstarter if we felt we needed additional funding to match our vision for DA3?

While I am never keen on talking in absolutes, I would bet large sums of money on it not happening.

Would you guys loose your jobs if the name of the person in charge of the funding gets leaked and we fans plus the help of some very nice mobsters, "convince" said person to give Mr. Gaider more money to hire many more minions to help him creating more content?

Just kidding,

Talented work is expensive, very expesive. Plus, I cannot imagine the logistical nightmare of coordinating a ton writters when I struggle coordinating just a couple for articles...

[DarthLaxian]

David Gaider wrote...
 ...and that all starts with people much further up the chain than someone at my level.

and i thought that you were considered pretty high up yourself (and ultimately: isn't it that job of the team designing/writing/making a game to convince their superiours that their product is worth the money, effort and time spent on it? just like it is your job to convince people to buy your product in the end?...i mean you fail if you do not manage both tasks (also maybe only in the long run, because you lose fans if you throw bad games on the market) because say not convincing your bosses leads to rushed games (DA:II i am looking at you) and wrong design decisions (ME3! - with throwing out the original plot for something very very stupid etc. ME3 should have had twice the production time, then it would have been truly epic and grand...a worthy last part to the trillogy, but now, it is not!)...and if you fail to convince fans, then your superiours will lose faith in you...so you have to find a balance between the two, but ultimately you walk a fine line, but:

more content (more lines of text is one large part of "more content") usually is good (fans tend to like that and they (WE - as i am a fan, too) kind of deserve it, after all you have been listening to your bosses more then the fans in your last two games and that upset the balance between spending money that is needed and generating money for you by selling your product)

greetings LAX
ps: your decision though, but i will only give you 2 more chances (DA:III and the next game - whatever that is - from the team that made mass effect) and if you dissapoint me as royally as you have, then i will consider Bioware "damaged goods" and only buy games after they have been gone down in price (if at all)