479 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Rosario]

I have to ask those who don't want the charge mechanic back... Why? If it's because you didn't like the mechanic, then that's just more reason to change it really because it needs a change that won't weaken it too far, just make it less desirable to use. If it's for some balance reason, you should say so.

[PinchLion]

Nemy Montoya wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I always hated the charge mechanic and would never use the gun if it came back.  It doesn't feel characterful to me, it feels un-asari.  I see the Acolyte as a side arm used in a tight moment when you want to drop the target's defences before unleashing biotic doom.  It wont work like that at all if you need to draw the weapon, charge it up, take aim and fire.

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

[Shyde01]

I learned to use it when it had a charge mechanic, so I could probably deal with that again. But then there is no need to nerf its other aspects. You can't do both.

Plus, if the consensus among shooters is that a charge mechanic is annoying and will make the gun unpalatable, then re-introduce the charge mechanic. That way, shooters will, as before, leave the gun alone - and stop crying that casters are horribly OP with it - and BW will go back to ignoring casters. Next month we'll have another shiny new amazeballs shotgun or smg for shooters to use (until they get bored).

[thatdude90210]

I didn't like the Acolyte when it had to be charged. I didn't use it at all. Now that the charge is removed, I use it for characters that can't take down shields and barriers - as a secondary gun. If it's to be nerfed, it should be on health and armor damage.

[UKStory135]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Personally, I hate all of the Charge mechanics in the game.  I think they make guns limited to certain classes on console, because of the button layouts.  The issue with the gun and why it is used so much has more to do with its accessiblity, weight, and guranteed stagger of Phantoms.  I personally don't think that making a gun less fun to use is the best way to balance it.

[The Wayward Vagabond]

The charge mechanic wasn't bad. This is coming from someone who used it since day one, new acolyte feels really clunky.

Modifié par The Wayward Vagabond, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Loscakes]

Bring back the charge mechanic or leave it alone. The rate of fire is bad enough and if it can no longer strip shields from non bosses in one shot, I don't really see the point of it.

[Shyde01]

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

Nemy Montoya wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I always hated the charge mechanic and would never use the gun if it came back.  It doesn't feel characterful to me, it feels un-asari.  I see the Acolyte as a side arm used in a tight moment when you want to drop the target's defences before unleashing biotic doom.  It wont work like that at all if you need to draw the weapon, charge it up, take aim and fire.

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

Let me get this straight: you believe it's overpowered if, playing as a caster with weak health/shields, out of cover, surprised/ambushed, you have to target a shielded enemy, hit the target, then fire off a pull (risk it being dodged), stand around waiting for CD, then fire off another power to get your BE - all of this being done at the limits of human reaction time and with close to zero margin for error - in order to survive the encounter? This, to you, is game-breaking? This is way easier to do than to unload a shotgun to the face while playing a shooter with 1250/1250 health/shields?  Please make that argument.

[Tybo]

Decreasing armor/health damage will literally do nothing to balance the acolyte. That has nothing to do with why the gun can be considered OP. I think adding the charge mechanic will help to balance it because then its use will be more situational. You can't mistakenly drop yourself into a bad situation and suddenly-boom, everything threatening you is stunned/has no shields.

[DcIhNaGv3z]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Why not swap the scorpion mechanic with the acolyte mechanic.  The UR scorpion should be a powerhouse weapon like the acolyte.

[Katinka]

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

I wouldn't call it OP.  I would call it practical.  Limit the rate of fire or clip size if repeated use is a worry but the people who only use it sparingly shouldn't have to waste time charging it and be unable to take cover properly, drop from ledges or use ladders.  What I would call OP or exploitative is the tactics I have heard for how to use the charge mechanic with vanguards/shadows to hit targets during the travel time of a biotic charge/shadow strike.

[oXTheReverendXo]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Based on a number of responses after your statement, I think reinstating the charge mechanic would reduce the guns overall use, thus negating the need for larger nerfs perhaps. I know I carry the gun on certain classes just because I like to have a backup for Phantoms and the Acolyte provides this with a minimum of weight increase.

If you were to reintroduce the charge mechanic, I would probably take it off more of my characters and go back to using the Scorpion as my stagger/anti-space-ninja weapon. For me, the Acolyte would go back to being a niche gun for certain casters, which I believe was your original intention for the gun.

Whatever you end up doing with it, please retain the gun's ability to remove a mid-tier mook's shields in one shot. That's the gun's perfect niche and one that should remain untouched.

[PinchLion]

Shyde01 wrote...

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

Nemy Montoya wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I always hated the charge mechanic and would never use the gun if it came back.  It doesn't feel characterful to me, it feels un-asari.  I see the Acolyte as a side arm used in a tight moment when you want to drop the target's defences before unleashing biotic doom.  It wont work like that at all if you need to draw the weapon, charge it up, take aim and fire.

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

Let me get this straight: you believe it's overpowered if, playing as a caster with weak health/shields, out of cover, surprised/ambushed, you have to target a shielded enemy, hit the target, then fire off a pull (risk it being dodged), stand around waiting for CD, then fire off another power to get your BE - all of this being done at the limits of human reaction time and with close to zero margin for error - in order to survive the encounter? This, to you, is game-breaking? This is way easier to do than to unload a shotgun to the face while playing a shooter with 1250/1250 health/shields?  Please make that argument.

I never said it was game-breaking. That's all on you. Don't see why you're binging up shotguns; a weapon-based class relies on weapons, but has little else to utilize. A biotic uses biotics and has little else to utilize. With this gun, a biotic all of a suddon has an overpowerd weapon plus biotics. Not sure if you understand balance.

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

Decreasing armor/health damage will literally do nothing to balance the acolyte. That has nothing to do with why the gun can be considered OP. I think adding the charge mechanic will help to balance it because then its use will be more situational. You can't mistakenly drop yourself into a bad situation and suddenly-boom, everything threatening you is stunned/has no shields.

If the charge up mechanic is not returned, would you agree that a nerf to its area of effect (or cap its aoe so it can only hit one target) would be a good way of balancing the weapon?

That way it keeps its damage the same, its fire rate, its modifier, but is no longer capable of hitting an entire pack of enemies at once; which although a severe nerf, would be warranted and would leave the gun still capable of being an excellent tool for draining boss shields.

[UKStory135]

Lord Rosario wrote...

I have to ask those who don't want the charge mechanic back... Why? If it's because you didn't like the mechanic, then that's just more reason to change it really because it needs a change that won't weaken it too far, just make it less desirable to use. If it's for some balance reason, you should say so.

To me, charge mechanics make the weapons unbalanced by principle.  Everytime I choose a charged based weapon, I go into it, knowing that I will essentially not be able to use my Right Bumper power for most of the game.  I know that is not a problem on the PS3 or PC, but to me, it is a huge problem on the XBox.  If I could remap powers, I would be able to work around charged weapons.

[PinchLion]

Nemy Montoya wrote...

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

I wouldn't call it OP.  I would call it practical.  Limit the rate of fire or clip size if repeated use is a worry but the people who only use it sparingly shouldn't have to waste time charging it and be unable to take cover properly, drop from ledges or use ladders.  What I would call OP or exploitative is the tactics I have heard for how to use the charge mechanic with vanguards/shadows to hit targets during the travel time of a biotic charge/shadow strike.

I hear you. Though it's still practical with the charge, just use soft cover; difference is, it'd have its place, do its job, and not be the all purpose weapon it's become.

Modifié par Paradise Ablaze, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:34 .

[Antaresss]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Charging will put a big red X on the weapon for most people, so if you want that to happen, then yeah, return to the charge mechanic. And btw for almost 800 hours of play I havent seen a SINGLE person using the mythical missile glitch, so the reason for all the fuss about it remains and will remain a mystery to me.

[RequiemPrime]

I also would prefer the charge mechanic back in place. I loved the Acolyte when it had the charge, it made me practice how to bank shots off of a wall at a precise moment til I was perfect with it. That should be enough to deter the "overuse"

[Upfunkt]

UKStory135 wrote...

To me, charge mechanics make the weapons unbalanced by principle.  Everytime I choose a charged based weapon, I go into it, knowing that I will essentially not be able to use my Right Bumper power for most of the game.  I know that is not a problem on the PS3 or PC, but to me, it is a huge problem on the XBox.  If I could remap powers, I would be able to work around charged weapons.

When you want to charge a weapon and use a power in tandem, place your index finger on the right bumper and your middle finger on right trigger. It's not that hard.

[LGear]

The Charge mechanic in principle was supposed to balance the Acolyte by nerfing its effective rate of fire. In reality however, the implementation of having to manually charge the Acolyte then releasing it meant that it was a tedious weapon to use, which really made it undesirable.

If we're talking about balance fixes to the Acolyte that don't involve nerfing any of its core damage values, I can think of only one way to do so: give it a firing delay. The Javelin has such a mechanic where there's a delay between pressing the trigger and the weapon firing. Something similar can be implemented on the Acolyte, where the delay between trigger and firing ican be made similar to its old charge up time. This way, the initial balance intent of the charge-up is retained, while still being relatively easy to use, since you only need to press the trigger and point instead of having to hold-down and release.

[Tybo]

Annomander wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Decreasing armor/health damage will literally do nothing to balance the acolyte. That has nothing to do with why the gun can be considered OP. I think adding the charge mechanic will help to balance it because then its use will be more situational. You can't mistakenly drop yourself into a bad situation and suddenly-boom, everything threatening you is stunned/has no shields.

If the charge up mechanic is not returned, would you agree that a nerf to its area of effect (or cap its aoe so it can only hit one target) would be a good way of balancing the weapon?

That way it keeps its damage the same, its fire rate, its modifier, but is no longer capable of hitting an entire pack of enemies at once; which although a severe nerf, would be warranted and would leave the gun still capable of being an excellent tool for draining boss shields.

I could buy this, seems like a reasonable suggestion.  I think that reducing the number of targets would be better than a reduction of AoE so that it retains some usability at mid-long range.  I find it to be a bit unpredictable at range already, and a reduction in AoE seems to me like it would become almost impossible to use at range.  Maybe I'm just really bad at judging the bounces though.  

That said, I'm not sure if a reduction in targets hit is possible for a weapon through a coalesced change.

I'd still prefer charge up though, but I could get behind this change. I would say, though, that if targets hit were reduced to 1 it could probably use a slight buff to RoF, maybe to 50 or so.  

[Heggy]

I would rather see the charge mechanic come back. A clip size nerf or even a weight increase anything that doesn't explicitly hit damage.

This is a delicate situation. There is a threshold damage where the acolyte's effectiveness will suddenly drop off. That point is where a single shot, even with some damage passives and even perhaps some basic amps won't take mook's shields away. At this point the weapon ceases to be effective and loses its niche, it's just a falcon that can only hit shields.

[Shyde01]

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

Shyde01 wrote...

Paradise Ablaze wrote...

Nemy Montoya wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I always hated the charge mechanic and would never use the gun if it came back.  It doesn't feel characterful to me, it feels un-asari.  I see the Acolyte as a side arm used in a tight moment when you want to drop the target's defences before unleashing biotic doom.  It wont work like that at all if you need to draw the weapon, charge it up, take aim and fire.

This is why it's being nerfed. It's quite op to be able to simply fire it off like that.

Let me get this straight: you believe it's overpowered if, playing as a caster with weak health/shields, out of cover, surprised/ambushed, you have to target a shielded enemy, hit the target, then fire off a pull (risk it being dodged), stand around waiting for CD, then fire off another power to get your BE - all of this being done at the limits of human reaction time and with close to zero margin for error - in order to survive the encounter? This, to you, is game-breaking? This is way easier to do than to unload a shotgun to the face while playing a shooter with 1250/1250 health/shields?  Please make that argument.

I never said it was game-breaking. That's all on you. Don't see why you're binging up shotguns; a weapon-based class relies on weapons, but has little else to utilize. A biotic uses biotics and has little else to utilize. With this gun, a biotic all of a suddon has an overpowerd weapon plus biotics. Not sure if you understand balance.

You're telling me the caster scenario I outlined is OP such that BW should act to make it more difficult to execute. Either state publicly that you agree or concede that you're wrong.

If your evaluation re: overpowered kits & weapons was correct, one would expect to observe an abundance of casters in gold+ pug. Alas, observation does not accord with your theory.  But I'm the one who does not understand balance issues.

This fact alone should give BW pause.

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

That said, I'm not sure if a reduction in targets hit is possible for a weapon through a coalesced change.

I'd still prefer charge up though, but I could get behind this change. I would say, though, that if targets hit were reduced to 1 it could probably use a slight buff to RoF, maybe to 50 or so.  

Aye, I brought up the AoE nerf because I didn't think it was possible to server push a cap on the targets that could be affected by a certain weapon.

Ideally it would be the return of the charge up, but if the powers that be decided that they didn't want the charge up then I could see no alternative which wouldn't lead to the acolyte being under-nerfed and still being overused, or being over-nerfed and being unusable.

I sincerely hope its not just a weight increase that they've decided on.

[UKStory135]

Upfunkt wrote...

UKStory135 wrote...

To me, charge mechanics make the weapons unbalanced by principle.  Everytime I choose a charged based weapon, I go into it, knowing that I will essentially not be able to use my Right Bumper power for most of the game.  I know that is not a problem on the PS3 or PC, but to me, it is a huge problem on the XBox.  If I could remap powers, I would be able to work around charged weapons.

When you want to charge a weapon and use a power in tandem, place your index finger on the right bumper and your middle finger on right trigger. It's not that hard.

Maybe not for you, but for me, that is a PITA.