479 réponses à ce sujet

[Upfunkt]

LGear wrote...

The Charge mechanic in principle was supposed to balance the Acolyte by nerfing its effective rate of fire. In reality however, the implementation of having to manually charge the Acolyte then releasing it meant that it was a tedious weapon to use, which really made it undesirable.

If we're talking about balance fixes to the Acolyte that don't involve nerfing any of its core damage values, I can think of only one way to do so: give it a firing delay. The Javelin has such a mechanic where there's a delay between pressing the trigger and the weapon firing. Something similar can be implemented on the Acolyte, where the delay between trigger and firing ican be made similar to its old charge up time. This way, the initial balance intent of the charge-up is retained, while still being relatively easy to use, since you only need to press the trigger and point instead of having to hold-down and release.

I don't see how that would work. The Acolyte has an AoE whereas you need to anticipate your enemy's movements with the Javelin.

[born2beagator]

Antaresss wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Charging will put a big red X on the weapon for most people, so if you want that to happen, then yeah, return to the charge mechanic. And btw for almost 800 hours of play I havent seen a SINGLE person using the mythical missile glitch, so the reason for all the fuss about it remains and will remain a mystery to me.

Good.  Do it.  i took the time to learn how to use the gun with the charge.

[Blike]

please don't make the acolyte have to charge again..

[Katinka]

I like guns that shoot when I pull the trigger. Makes no sense that it wouldn't auto charge. If the charge does come back please give it a reduced damage quick fire option like the graal, kishock, geth plasma shotgun and arc pistol. The main issue I had with the Acolyte charging was that it was charge or nothing.

[LGear]

Upfunkt wrote...

I don't see how that would work. The Acolyte has an AoE whereas you need to anticipate your enemy's movements with the Javelin.

The intent is to limit the Acolyte's RoF, just like what the Charge mechanic did. Also, the Acolyte does need to hit its target squarely to reliably detonate on your enemy, otherwise it'll just bounce off the nearest wall or floor and hit something else, thus there's still a need for accuracy. There's also the fact that the Acolyte's projectile travels much more slowly than the Javelin, which means a delay in firing will make you more liable to miss. The delay mechanic will make "snap" shooting with the Acolyte harder while nerfing its RoF, without changing any of its damage values.

[Tybo]

Annomander wrote...

tyhw wrote...

That said, I'm not sure if a reduction in targets hit is possible for a weapon through a coalesced change.

I'd still prefer charge up though, but I could get behind this change. I would say, though, that if targets hit were reduced to 1 it could probably use a slight buff to RoF, maybe to 50 or so.  

Aye, I brought up the AoE nerf because I didn't think it was possible to server push a cap on the targets that could be affected by a certain weapon.

Ideally it would be the return of the charge up, but if the powers that be decided that they didn't want the charge up then I could see no alternative which wouldn't lead to the acolyte being under-nerfed and still being overused, or being over-nerfed and being unusable.

I sincerely hope its not just a weight increase that they've decided on.

I can agree with that.  My personal guess is a damage nerf to~ 424 damage at X.  Why this number?  At 424 damage per shot, you would need an amp or spec for weapon damage in the passive to be able to one shot gold phantom barriers.

Modifié par tyhw, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Baron_Von_Bonbon]

Acolyte nerf? Why? Please, don't bring the charge to fire mechanic back!

[BridgeBurner]

tyhw wrote...

Annomander wrote...

tyhw wrote...

That said, I'm not sure if a reduction in targets hit is possible for a weapon through a coalesced change.

I'd still prefer charge up though, but I could get behind this change. I would say, though, that if targets hit were reduced to 1 it could probably use a slight buff to RoF, maybe to 50 or so.  

Aye, I brought up the AoE nerf because I didn't think it was possible to server push a cap on the targets that could be affected by a certain weapon.

Ideally it would be the return of the charge up, but if the powers that be decided that they didn't want the charge up then I could see no alternative which wouldn't lead to the acolyte being under-nerfed and still being overused, or being over-nerfed and being unusable.

I sincerely hope its not just a weight increase that they've decided on.

I can agree with that.  My personal guess is a damage nerf to~ 424 damage at X.  Why this number?  At 424 damage per shot, you would need an amp or spec for weapon damage in the passive to be able to one shot gold phantom barriers.

I reckon it might be a reduction to the multiplier, leaving the base damage intact.

Who knows though, it might be a combaintion of RoF, Clip, Damage or Multiplier, or all 3/4.

I also want my volus vanguard.

[PinchLion]

Listen, I never called for a nerf to the gun; personally I'd be fine if it was kept as is. I'm just discussing why Bioware chose to nerf it. If you knew how to use it before, you never found themself out in the open needing to charge it. You already had it charged; you always had it pre-charged, as you could afford to, being a caster.

And not sure what you mean by "observation." What you personally see in lobbies isn't indicative to the population. This is why you read so many comments about never seeing the gun and others always seeing it.

Modifié par Paradise Ablaze, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[N7Kopper]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I'm not the right person to ask about changing it back to charge - I would automatically say "yes" for immersion reasons. Either that, or patch the game so Shepard's Acolyte doesn't charge either. Guess which is more practical. Much the same reasons that despite loving sniper rifles, I balked at the nerfs to enemy shieldgates. Having a few nonobvious stats be different between single player and multiplayer wouldn't be that bad - after all, henchdamage 0.3 is already part of canon like that. It's just stuff like different ammo counts for the same weapons and things like that. (not powers, powers can easily be different, especially biotic ones)

But I've reconciled worse plotholes, like the Collector attack against an Immunity-munchkinned Shep. So whatever you do, make other pistols worth using again as compared to the Acolyte. Although personally, I liked the charge mechanic - but if you bring it back, don't rebuff the thing too much. People will just learn how to use it, and then not using an Acolyte will be handicapping yourself totally.

[MaxShine]

charge pls

[Lord Rosario]

UKStory135 wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

I have to ask those who don't want the charge mechanic back... Why? If it's because you didn't like the mechanic, then that's just more reason to change it really because it needs a change that won't weaken it too far, just make it less desirable to use. If it's for some balance reason, you should say so.

To me, charge mechanics make the weapons unbalanced by principle.  Everytime I choose a charged based weapon, I go into it, knowing that I will essentially not be able to use my Right Bumper power for most of the game.  I know that is not a problem on the PS3 or PC, but to me, it is a huge problem on the XBox.  If I could remap powers, I would be able to work around charged weapons.

So it comes down to you not liking the charge mechanic because it makes things harder for you. Again, that sounds exactly like the kind of nerf the Acolyte needs. Make it more difficult to use but give it high rewards. I play on Xbox too and also only use my one finger for both the trigger and the bumper, but I think this is exactly what the Acolyte needs.

[BigSmellyBob]

I personally liked the charge mechanic, would prefer a clip size reduction to discourage just firing it like a madman (though understandably the +clip size mod is often used with the weapon as well), or perhaps some form of negative modifier for health/ armor damage. Love the gun, but its being used as essentially a weightless grenade launcher. Currently I myself end up using it as much to clear out Husks/ Abominations as I do to remove shields.

[Tybo]

Annomander wrote...

I reckon it might be a reduction to the multiplier, leaving the base damage intact.

Who knows though, it might be a combaintion of RoF, Clip, Damage or Multiplier, or all 3/4.

I also want my volus vanguard.

Yeah, we'll find out soon enough.

Also, volus vanguard?  We can no longer be friends:crying:
I just don't see the value of that kit.  Please enlighten me.

[SlimJim0725]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

I like the old charge mechanic if it means the original Acolyte is around. One mistake and you were pretty much dead, so the risk would be worth the reward of stripping barriers and shields quickly.

[Heggy]

BigSmellyBob wrote...

I personally liked the charge mechanic, would prefer a clip size reduction to discourage just firing it like a madman (though understandably the +clip size mod is often used with the weapon as well), or perhaps some form of negative modifier for health/ armor damage. Love the gun, but its being used as essentially a weightless grenade launcher. Currently I myself end up using it as much to clear out Husks/ Abominations as I do to remove shields.

Acolyte heals unshielded enemies. Brilliant.

[ChatmanJay]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

The real problem is that non-casters use the gun, I know it's not possible but only casters should be able to use it, but I digress. Personally I perfer the current non charge Acolyte. 

[Amnesiotic]

It's obvious that the charge mechanic was keeping the Acolyte balanced. Just the number of people who've expressed fear of the concept in this thread is a clear sign. Make it a charge gun again and all those lazy players will leave it alone while those of us who actually put time into mastering it will get to keep our beloved gun.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Annomander wrote...

I reckon it might be a reduction to the multiplier, leaving the base damage intact.

Who knows though, it might be a combaintion of RoF, Clip, Damage or Multiplier, or all 3/4.

I also want my volus vanguard.

I was actually thinking they'd drop the base damage, while altering the multiplier slightly.

As to keep the damage vs shields and barriers, but deal much less damage to health, and subsequently, to armor.

Killing everything less than a boss on gold with the thing is a bit ridiculous IMO.

[The Wayward Vagabond]

Antaresss wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We also have a small Valkyrie buff this week, but just to warn everyone we also have a small nerf to the Acolyte and one to the Stimulant Pack power since after some testing and feedback we've concluded that they are too powerful.

Sadly, we can't just go back to a charging Acolyte, like it used to be, can we?

We could go back to the charge mechanic, but there is some debate in the office about whether that is desirable. What do you guys think? I don't think today's nerf to the Acolyte will be enough.

Charging will put a big red X on the weapon for most people, so if you want that to happen, then yeah, return to the charge mechanic. And btw for almost 800 hours of play I havent seen a SINGLE person using the mythical missile glitch, so the reason for all the fuss about it remains and will remain a mystery to me.

Good, maybe using this gun properly will feel rewarding.

[Draugrim]

Charge mechanics are problematic and for me, just not as fun. If the Acolyte must be nerfed please don't make it slower to fire, or less useful on a reactionary situation. Nerf it's damage to health and armor by half, and by 25% to shields and barriers.

[Relix28]

 Personally, I prefer the chargeless Krogan Vanguard Acolyte. If it's a choice between less damage and no charge, and more damage and charge, I'd go with chargeless.

[MaxShine]

I would do only one nerf at a time. If the Acolyte is overnerfed it will we useless. Maybe only reinstall the charge mechanic and see how it turns out. If it is still considered too powerful further changes can be made.

[JGDD]

Amnesiotic wrote...

It's obvious that the charge mechanic was keeping the Acolyte balanced. Just the number of people who've expressed fear of the concept in this thread is a clear sign. Make it a charge gun again and all those lazy players will leave it alone while those of us who actually put time into mastering it will get to keep our beloved gun.

Does mastering mean: Kroguard + Acolyte + Incendiary?

Have a feeling that's what it will go back to. Anything that allows you to run a gold solo as easily as that will be pounced upon as soon as it's posted. Granted that's only one but people looking for the easy way out always migrate toward those unusual combinations that work too well.

[Katinka]

Amnesiotic wrote...

It's obvious that the charge mechanic was keeping the Acolyte balanced. Just the number of people who've expressed fear of the concept in this thread is a clear sign. Make it a charge gun again and all those lazy players will leave it alone while those of us who actually put time into mastering it will get to keep our beloved gun.

The charge mechanic didn't make it balanced.  It made it awkward.  When fighting a galactic threat I don't want to be told a gun is good but I don't know how to use it right.  I want to be issued a gun that shoots my target when I pull the trigger.  The original Acolyte was a massive disappointment for me.

"Sir!  My pistol is malfunctioning, it doesn't fire when I pull the trigger."
"You just don't know how to use it.  Hold the trigger until the gun ticks then release it.  But don't try to crouch in cover, jump down from a ledge or use a ladder."