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[Viktoria Landers]

Blood Magic is a very important element of Dragon Age. I just wish it's not so prominently shown so black and add a bit more grey on it too.

Modifié par Viktoria Landers, 05 décembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[jack253]

relhart wrote...

You have to make some allowances my man, they can't have a drastically different story just for one specialization, that "most" people won't even see, especially not with the decision to go full VO.
I'm not saying it couldn't use some work, some companion banter/arguments over it would help. I also liked the specialization side quests from DAO, they should bring those back. It doesn't have to be much, the AW and Reaver for example were very resource light, but still helped to add some backstory and meat (story wise), to the specs themselves. .

I agree with you on the fact that they can't drastically change the story for just one specialization but I have come up with some ways it can influence it without breaking it.
Companions: these are the people closest to you and will know you and your fighting style the best, thus they should have their own opinion of it. For example a noble knight might not approve of your assassin specialization as he feels it is cowardice and without honor and thus it will take more time and effort for him to warm up to you but in the end he will start to respect you. Or some sort of kinship or rivalry (depending on the character) might form more easily between those that possess the  same specialization.
convincing npc: when trying to persuade an npc if he is aware what the character or his companions specialization is give the player a bonus or penalty to the check. A known bloodmage will have a harder time convincing someone of his good intent then someone else or a duelist has an easier time convincing the enemy leader to a one on one duel then the raging reaver.
quests: let us earn the specializations that we want to use like in DAO. You want to be a bloodmage seek out a demon, a berserker then go to the dwarfs and get them to train you or become a bard by learning how to play a song and steal a noblemans secrets.

[Isaantia]

Viktoria Landers wrote...

Blood Magic is a very important element of Dragon Age. I just wish it's not so prominently shown so black and add a bit more grey on it too.

I felt the scene with Jowan and Isolde in Redcliffe was an example of "grey". Isolde clearly committed grave crimes and she would/should be punished for it one way or another. Morrigan's ritual is another example. I would put that in the "grey" as well. Mage phylacteries are also blood magic that the Templars use. And it sounds like the Joining also involves blood magic based on the notes of Avernus and what the Architect says. And then of course there are your PCs... who can be "good" blood mages. Merrill is a "good" blood mage. So I feel like there is a lot of grey that the player experiences - that flies in the face of what the player is told by other characters in game. 

But there are plenty of examples of very bad blood mages - and there is good reason for that. But beyond that, there are examples throughout the DA universe of people just being awful in general. Magic or no. Everything is grey. 

[Medhia Nox]

Yeah - tell Avernus how much demons don't mock blood magic.

That DA 2 codex is bunk. Why do people always question Chantry codex entries... or elf ones... but never pro-mage ones? Odd.

There are no "good" blood mages - the best you get are two mages who are so self-absorbed with their own desires that they're willing to do anything to achieve their goals.

Gah - blood magic is the absolute worst thing about Dragon Age.

[Face of Evil]

Viktoria Landers wrote...

Blood Magic is a very important element of Dragon Age. I just wish it's not so prominently shown so black and add a bit more grey on it too.

But it IS black. Even the most basic use of blood magic is self-destructive; how else can you portray magic that uses actual physical pain as its energy source?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:19 .

[Solmanian]

You cut people up so you can use their blood for mind control. Nope, I sure don't see why people would see that as "evil"... Assassinating an archterrorist is a "grey" thing. Mutilation, self or otherwise so you can do magic isn't.

[Solmanian]

Face of Evil wrote...

Viktoria Landers wrote...

Blood Magic is a very important element of Dragon Age. I just wish it's not so prominently shown so black and add a bit more grey on it too.

But it IS black. Even the most basic use of blood magic is self-destructive; how else can you portray magic that uses actual physical pain as its energy source?

It doesn't use pain. It uses blood. And you can see that you can horde the blood in baubling cauldrons for later use. Isn't that better?

[Xilizhra]

Solmanian wrote...

You cut people up so you can use their blood for mind control. Nope, I sure don't see why people would see that as "evil"... Assassinating an archterrorist is a "grey" thing. Mutilation, self or otherwise so you can do magic isn't.

The damage is trivially easy to heal and doesn't seem to be at all lasting except for a few particularly powerful rituals.

[EmperorSahlertz]

In before pro-mage people approve of blood magic... Too late? Dammit....

[Uccio]

Robhuzz wrote...

Except that this shouldn't be possible. If you play the DAO magi origin and talk to the 'apprentice' in the fade, the one who turns into a mouse, he actually explains how it works. A mage is possessed if he or she loses a battle of will against a demon. If the mage's will is strong enough to resist the demon, nothing will happen. If not, it turns you into an abomination.

There's no evidence anywhere that a mage is both in the fade as well as on the mundane world when they're awake. Thus... how can they even encounter a demon (who resides in the fade) while they're wandering around in thedas, let alone battle it in a battle of will. The only way for this to be possible is if the mage was both in the real world as well as the fade at the very same time.

This was my major problem with DA2. Every second mage burstin into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that mage had to be in the fade just to give the demon a change to overrun the mage.    


ry second mage bursting into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that hou

[iOnlySignIn]

OP did you ever play this game called Dragon Age 2?

[Dominus]

My outlook is this: In terms of status of gameplay elements, I would rather it be kept as a specialization. In terms of narrative, blood mages did seem to have a jarringly minute reaction regarding the fact that they're cutting themselves to unleash unholy destruction upon all that oppose them.

As a supporter of all things devilish in video games, I wouldn't mind seeing a more accurate representation of blood mages - both in, and out of the PC itself.

I just wish it's not so prominently shown so black and add a bit more grey on it too.

That would also be great to have. I see no reason to not add more complex moral dilemmas than what may have been seen before.

Modifié par DominusVita, 05 décembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Daerog]

Ukki wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Except that this shouldn't be possible. If you play the DAO magi origin and talk to the 'apprentice' in the fade, the one who turns into a mouse, he actually explains how it works. A mage is possessed if he or she loses a battle of will against a demon. If the mage's will is strong enough to resist the demon, nothing will happen. If not, it turns you into an abomination.

There's no evidence anywhere that a mage is both in the fade as well as on the mundane world when they're awake. Thus... how can they even encounter a demon (who resides in the fade) while they're wandering around in thedas, let alone battle it in a battle of will. The only way for this to be possible is if the mage was both in the real world as well as the fade at the very same time.

This was my major problem with DA2. Every second mage burstin into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that mage had to be in the fade just to give the demon a change to overrun the mage.    


ry second mage bursting into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that hou

Well, first of all, there are demons who cross over and stick around. Such as Shades, also it is not always a battle of wills, a demon can also get inside by fooling the mage, which is what Mouse was trying to do. Why battle when you can be let in? A reason why Spirit Healing is also very dangerous.

Secondly, a mage is never cut off from the Fade, a mage has a  stronger connection to it, and while not dream walking in it, doesn't mean they are not still connected to it.  It is because of that stronger connection they do magic in the first place, they don't re-establish connection to it and then cast spells, the connection is constant. One can only put up barriers and defenses by different methods, but a mage is never cut off entirely... except maybe with Tranquils, but I haven't read Asunder so I'm not 100% on that yet.

Anyway, yes, bring on a better blood mage character or spec. Also, blood magic is evil/immoral.

[EmperorSahlertz]

A mage is open to possession when awake, whenever he casts a spell.

[jack253]

it would be nice for those playing a mage to have a questline were a demon is actively trying to corrupt/possess him/her. This can be done very subtle at the start of the game with the demon becoming more active depending on your character's choices. It also ties in well with the storyline as it is the main reason why templars want to restrain mages while showing the players how high the general risk is for mages even if they are not a bloodmage

Modifié par jack253, 05 décembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Drakar123 wrote...

Magic in general doesn't attract demons.Power does.Blood Magic doesn't draw it's power from the fade which is why if you stick to only using it demons will have a harder time noticing you.It's why they don't usually possess nobles despite them being a better target then a circle mage.They know about mages because they are awake in the fade and have power there.They don't notice other people.

Nope.
All mages that do magic work with the Fade. The difference between a regular mage and blood mages it that a regular mage hits a limit as to how much power he can draw. A blood mage uses his (or others) life force to boost that.
But in it's core it's still channeling the Fade. So there's no difference in demon attraction. If anything, blood magic would attract more.

[esper]

jack253 wrote...

it would be nice for those playing a mage to have a questline were a demon is actively trying to corrupt/possess him/her. This can be done very subtle at the start of the game with the demon becoming more active depending on your character's choices. It also ties in well with the storyline as it is the main reason why templars want to restrain mages while showing the players how high the general risk is for mages even if they are not a bloodmage

I am pretty sure that is what Mouse was trying to do in the Harrowing at the start of da:o.

[jack253]

esper wrote...

jack253 wrote...

it would be nice for those playing a mage to have a questline were a demon is actively trying to corrupt/possess him/her. This can be done very subtle at the start of the game with the demon becoming more active depending on your character's choices. It also ties in well with the storyline as it is the main reason why templars want to restrain mages while showing the players how high the general risk is for mages even if they are not a bloodmage

I am pretty sure that is what Mouse was trying to do in the Harrowing at the start of da:o.

yes but that was only during the harrowing, a controled situation were they pit you against a demon. You knew a demon was trying to corrupt you and mouse was as subtle as a brick against a glass wall at the end. in everyday life you wouldn't know that it was a demon conversing with you, you might suspect it but you wouldn't be sure of it. this is what I would want to see as an overarching storyline for a mage character.

[Lotion Soronarr]

jack253 wrote...

it would be nice for those playing a mage to have a questline were a demon is actively trying to corrupt/possess him/her. This can be done very subtle at the start of the game with the demon becoming more active depending on your character's choices. It also ties in well with the storyline as it is the main reason why templars want to restrain mages while showing the players how high the general risk is for mages even if they are not a bloodmage

I don't see that working well. A game by it's very nature trivilizes things.

Just look at mind control Idunna did. So underwhelming and dissapointing. The protagonist/player doesn't really struggle at all.
Now, if Hawke couldn't use "heroic willpower ™" and was actually forced to kill someone the player liked before being rescued by a templar - how different would that be?

As it is, games always trivilize things like possesion and mind control, since it's almost impossible for the player to experience the difficulty in dealing with such things. It boils down to "press X to resist".


One why I see it could be implemented would be like Jedi Mind Trick. Give the player, many, many opportunities to use mind control. And have many of them be petty and self-seriving. Let the player stat using it to solve minor problems in good way, only to start relying more and more on it and start using it for more petty things, eventually leading the player to abuse it (as it would bein real life)

[DarthLaxian]

Drakar123 wrote...

It would certainly be interesting...but I still believe that it was the old gods who taught Archon Thalsian blood magic.I for one welcome the end of the veil.Before it existed dragons ruled the world unchallenged.I look forward to seeing them take back what is rightfully theirs.Never mind that once the veil dissapears everybody will be capable of using magic which should lead to total anarchy in most countries what with all the anti mage propaganda and the laws prohibiting mages from having lands or titles.Imagine if every qunari was suddenly seerebas ?The chaos.It will be glorious.

well - i would like all of that (well except for the dragons...also cassandra might have fun doing a lot of dragon huntig...i like those, but as they are clearly not all that intelligent in Dragon Age, i do not want them to "rule" anything)

greetings LAX

[Kidd]

Robhuzz wrote...

Wouldn't it be cool if this entire war was centuries in the making by some very powerful demons who had anticipated and awaited this moment since they first taught blood magic to the first archon of Tevinter?

You just spoiled DA3, you party pooper!

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All mages that do magic work with the Fade. The difference between a regular mage and blood mages it that a regular mage hits a limit as to how much power he can draw. A blood mage uses his (or others) life force to boost that.
But in it's core it's still channeling the Fade. So there's no difference in demon attraction. If anything, blood magic would attract more.

Is that truly so? It's been said that darkspawn have no connection to the Fade, and thus they cannot cast normal spells. The emissarys use blood magic to cast spells instead. This would imply blood magic is irrelevant to the Fade and the mana required to use its energies. Then again, that'd imply tranquils could still use blood magic, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, right? (I have a feeling right now that I should give Asunder another read)

[Lotion Soronarr]

Don't Emissries use the taint?

[Herr Uhl]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Don't Emissries use the taint?

Yes. Yes they do. It is also the thing that keeps them "alive" as compared to respiration.

[Todd23]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All mages that do magic work with the Fade. The difference between a regular mage and blood mages it that a regular mage hits a limit as to how much power he can draw. A blood mage uses his (or others) life force to boost that.
But in it's core it's still channeling the Fade. So there's no difference in demon attraction. If anything, blood magic would attract more.

Is that truly so? It's been said that darkspawn have no connection to the Fade, and thus they cannot cast normal spells. The emissarys use blood magic to cast spells instead. This would imply blood magic is irrelevant to the Fade and the mana required to use its energies. Then again, that'd imply tranquils could still use blood magic, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, right? (I have a feeling right now that I should give Asunder another read)

In the codex it says that the magisters used blood magic at first to simply improve the power of their own spells.  And they later learned it could do more things, like control others.  But this is my point, as a blood mage you should be gaining way more power than if you were one of the other specializations.  But so far it's always been one of the weaker specializations.  How about learning blood magic just adds some new abilities your able to learn in each school of magic (rather than it being a specialization itself), including your specialization. But where's the draw back? I think that it should be a story one. Consequences and all that.

http://dragonage.wik...orbidden_School

Modifié par Todd23, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[Robhuzz]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Except that this shouldn't be possible. If you play the DAO magi origin and talk to the 'apprentice' in the fade, the one who turns into a mouse, he actually explains how it works. A mage is possessed if he or she loses a battle of will against a demon. If the mage's will is strong enough to resist the demon, nothing will happen. If not, it turns you into an abomination.

There's no evidence anywhere that a mage is both in the fade as well as on the mundane world when they're awake. Thus... how can they even encounter a demon (who resides in the fade) while they're wandering around in thedas, let alone battle it in a battle of will. The only way for this to be possible is if the mage was both in the real world as well as the fade at the very same time.

This was my major problem with DA2. Every second mage burstin into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that mage had to be in the fade just to give the demon a change to overrun the mage.    


ry second mage bursting into abdominations just because they got upset?! From DAO I also understood that hou

Well, first of all, there are demons who cross over and stick around. Such as Shades, also it is not always a battle of wills, a demon can also get inside by fooling the mage, which is what Mouse was trying to do. Why battle when you can be let in? A reason why Spirit Healing is also very dangerous.

Secondly, a mage is never cut off from the Fade, a mage has a  stronger connection to it, and while not dream walking in it, doesn't mean they are not still connected to it.  It is because of that stronger connection they do magic in the first place, they don't re-establish connection to it and then cast spells, the connection is constant. One can only put up barriers and defenses by different methods, but a mage is never cut off entirely... except maybe with Tranquils, but I haven't read Asunder so I'm not 100% on that yet.

But that still doesn't make any sense. It's true what you said about demons fooling the mage to let it in, like what happened to Connor, which seems to be a more 'gentle' possession from which cure is possible. But it still doesn't explain how a demon can possess an awake mage at any time. Even if the mage has a connection to the fade, judging from what the Mouse told you about it, it shouldn't be possible unless the demon is actively facing the mage, either when both of them are in the fade, or when they are both in the real world.

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Wouldn't it be cool if this entire war was centuries in the making by some very powerful demons who had anticipated and awaited this moment since they first taught blood magic to the first archon of Tevinter?

You just spoiled DA3, you party pooper!

I did? Nooooo!

Wait a second... if I did, I must be psychic. Focus on this week's lottery numbers... focus...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:12 .