77 réponses à ce sujet

[Imp of the Perverse]

And please don't make the "skip cutscene" key/button the same button used to select dialog. When you're in dialog mode there's currently only one active key, so you don't need to worry about running out of buttons.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

And please don't make the "skip cutscene" key/button the same button used to select dialog. When you're in dialog mode there's currently only one active key, so you don't need to worry about running out of buttons.

agreed, and if its possible have the button for forwarding diagloue different from the select  choice in dialogue like in the witcher 2 you can press a button to fast forward the diagloue but said button won't allow you to make a choice at the end of the dialgoue by accident.

[DragonAgeLegend]

Skipping combat? It won't be an RPG any more, playing the combat for the story is what makes this game franchise amazing. Also if you skipped all the action the game would be a whole lot shorter.

[Allan Schumacher]

DinoSteve wrote...

If there is no combat its not an RPG anymore, it is something else, it is more like an interactive movie, if Bioware want to make an interactive movie that is fine, but it still won't be an RPG.

I'm not being closed minded, an RPG without combat is not an RPG.

RPGs are a fluid definition, and I'll straight up that you and I have definitions that do not align.  As such, it's pointless to bother getting caught up in this.  Don't do it.


In fact, I would strongly encourage people to not go around telling people what is or is not "valid gameplay" in a video game.

Making choice, exploring areas, and making decisions outside of combat is not just an interactive movie.  And even if it is, it's interactive to the degree that the term "interactive movie" is meaningless.  DAO is just an interactive movie... where you control who and what the character attacks, where the character goes, what things he says, what class he is...

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Daerog]

I support skippable cut scenes. As well as being able to pause cutscenes or being able to rewatch the most recent cutscene... Always annoying when being interrupted irl and unable to see what happened unless going back a save or watching youtube.

[Daerog]

krul2k wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

If there is no combat its not an RPG anymore, it is something else, it is more like an interactive movie, if Bioware want to make an interactive movie that is fine, but it still won't be an RPG.

I'm not being closed minded, an RPG without combat is not an RPG.

wasnt combat introduced into RPG and not RPG introduced into combat?

Depends on when "RPG" started. Did it start with CYOAs? Tabletop RPG? Games that stage actors practiced with? Are we talking all rpgs or just video game rpgs?

Was G introduced into RP or RP introduced to G?

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[Fawx9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

If there is no combat its not an RPG anymore, it is something else, it is more like an interactive movie, if Bioware want to make an interactive movie that is fine, but it still won't be an RPG.

I'm not being closed minded, an RPG without combat is not an RPG.

RPGs are a fluid definition, and I'll straight up that you and I have definitions that do not align.  As such, it's pointless to bother getting caught up in this.  Don't do it.


In fact, I would strongly encourage people to not go around telling people what is or is not "valid gameplay" in a video game.

Making choice, exploring areas, and making decisions outside of combat is not just an interactive movie.  And even if it is, it's interactive to the degree that the term "interactive movie" is meaningless.  DAO is just an interactive movie... where you control who and what the character attacks, where the character goes, what things he says, what class he is...

There is actually a gaming definition for a non combat inveractive movie/story.

It's called a VN, Japan has tons of them.

Note: I'm not knocking that medium, it actually can produce really good works (Umineko, Fate series are good examples). It's just that they have a much more limted market and don't have the production values that games here have.

Modifié par Fawx9, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:01 .

[FaWa]

DinoSteve wrote...

If there is no combat its not an RPG anymore, it is something else, it is more like an interactive movie, if Bioware want to make an interactive movie that is fine, but it still won't be an RPG.

I'm not being closed minded, an RPG without combat is not an RPG.

You ARE being closed minded. 

1. Role-Playing game. Playing a role. The definition does not imply combat (Although Combat defines RPG video games)
2. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO NOT PLAY COMBAT, WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO? Putting in some kind of skip combat option would not change how you played the game. "Those people shouldn't be allowed to do what I disagree with!"


 

Modifié par FaWa, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Fawx9 wrote...
There is actually a gaming definition for a non combat inveractive movie/story.

It's called a VN, Japan has tons of them.

Note: I'm not knocking that medium, it actually can produce really good works (Umineko, Fate series are good examples). It's just that they have a much more limted market and don't have the production values that games here have.

There's plenty of games that do not feature combat.  Many of them are adventure games.  They're still games.  That combat is considered a requirement is as much a reflection on our tolerance of violence more than anything as far as I'm concerned.

My favourite RPG is one that has poor combat that had it been mostly stripped out, would not be any less of a game (Planescape: Torment).  The only bad thing about that game, in my opinion, is its combat.

[Fawx9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
There is actually a gaming definition for a non combat inveractive movie/story.

It's called a VN, Japan has tons of them.

Note: I'm not knocking that medium, it actually can produce really good works (Umineko, Fate series are good examples). It's just that they have a much more limted market and don't have the production values that games here have.

There's plenty of games that do not feature combat.  Many of them are adventure games.  They're still games.  That combat is considered a requirement is as much a reflection on our tolerance of violence more than anything as far as I'm concerned.

My favourite RPG is one that has poor combat that had it been mostly stripped out, would not be any less of a game (Planescape: Torment).  The only bad thing about that game, in my opinion, is its combat.

Well that raises a question from me then, regarding this whole thing. Do people just want a skip combat seqeunce button(ignoring feasability for simplicity right now) or do they want eveything removed besides just moving to and from dialogue points?

Cause to me, thats a really big difference. Either we keep the adventuring aspect(puzzels, finding hidden stuff), or we start moving closer to the genre I mentioned where it starts to become an virtual novel.

I'm, not trying to say either one is wrong btw. I'm just curious as to whether its only the combat that is causing problems or if its more than that.

Modifié par Fawx9, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Fawx9 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
There is actually a gaming definition for a non combat inveractive movie/story.

It's called a VN, Japan has tons of them.

Note: I'm not knocking that medium, it actually can produce really good works (Umineko, Fate series are good examples). It's just that they have a much more limted market and don't have the production values that games here have.

There's plenty of games that do not feature combat.  Many of them are adventure games.  They're still games.  That combat is considered a requirement is as much a reflection on our tolerance of violence more than anything as far as I'm concerned.

My favourite RPG is one that has poor combat that had it been mostly stripped out, would not be any less of a game (Planescape: Torment).  The only bad thing about that game, in my opinion, is its combat.

Well that raises a question from me then,when considering the taking out combat request. Do people just want a skip combat seqeunce button(ignoring feasability for simplicity right now) or do they want eveything removed besides just moving to and from dialogue points?

Cause to me, thats a really big difference. Either we keep the adventuring aspect(puzzels, finding hidden stuff), or we start moving closer to the genre I mentioned where it starts to become an virtual novel.

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

[BadJustice]

Yes indeed. I hate making new characters in ME3 because of this reason very reason

[Fawx9]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
There is actually a gaming definition for a non combat inveractive movie/story.

It's called a VN, Japan has tons of them.

Note: I'm not knocking that medium, it actually can produce really good works (Umineko, Fate series are good examples). It's just that they have a much more limted market and don't have the production values that games here have.

There's plenty of games that do not feature combat.  Many of them are adventure games.  They're still games.  That combat is considered a requirement is as much a reflection on our tolerance of violence more than anything as far as I'm concerned.

My favourite RPG is one that has poor combat that had it been mostly stripped out, would not be any less of a game (Planescape: Torment).  The only bad thing about that game, in my opinion, is its combat.

Well that raises a question from me then,when considering the taking out combat request. Do people just want a skip combat seqeunce button(ignoring feasability for simplicity right now) or do they want eveything removed besides just moving to and from dialogue points?

Cause to me, thats a really big difference. Either we keep the adventuring aspect(puzzels, finding hidden stuff), or we start moving closer to the genre I mentioned where it starts to become an virtual novel.

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

Cause at times puzzles can be just as cumbersome as combat.

The Water Temple is a prime example of this. (Tremble in fear at the memory of not knowing where those keys are!)

Modifié par Fawx9, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:11 .

[Vandicus]

So...it has come to this.

But seriously how did we end up talking about skipping combat in a thread about skipping cutscenes?

[Wifflebottom]

Well cutscenes are different in bioware games most of the time (ME3 not counting) you actually control a lot the dialogue so completely skipping them would be strange I think. You can already skip lines. But I do agree you should be able to pause, at least on xbox you can press the home button.

[hoorayforicecream]

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

Cause at times puzzles can be just as cumbersome as combat.

The Water Temple is a prime example of this. (Tremble in fear at the memory of not knowing where those keys are!)

So... you're just running a straw man argument by making things up that people actually did not say, with a little slippery slope thrown in?

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Orian Tabris]

Technically you CAN skip cutscenes in DA2, AND Origins. I play on the PC, I assume you just need to press the X button on the PS3 and someother button commonly used to select things in menus, whatever it is for Xbox360. If you can on the consoles, then I don't know what you're on about, sir.

[Fawx9]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

Cause at times puzzles can be just as cumbersome as combat.

The Water Temple is a prime example of this. (Tremble in fear at the memory of not knowing where those keys are!)

So... you're just running a straw man argument by making things up that people actually did not say, with a little slippery slope thrown in?

No I'm honestly wondering if its just combat that's causing these problems, or if sections like the fade/deep roads/mini puzzels(shale puzzle/ashes puzzle) also fall under things that people may want to be skipped.

Personally I never had a problem with the deep roads, but I can clearly see why people want to skip the fade. The mini puzzles I never found bad, but its easy to go over board with them if you aren't careful.

Or are people ok with the idea of the adventure stuff, but just find the style of combat DA has provided too tedious/difficult/whatever?

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask how people want to play through the story of these games, be it skipping cinematics, combat, adventure content, something else, or none.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not trying to brand one view on this to be worse than another.

I am simply wondering if poeple would prefer what we have now, an adventure game like Allen mentioned, or something like a VN that I mentioned earlier. Or maybe something that fits somewhere in between one of those.

Modifié par Fawx9, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:01 .

[Yuqi]

BubbleDncr wrote...

The point is to interact in the story. If you just watched it on youtube, you're just watching someone else's choices, not your own - they aren't necessarily picking the dialog choices you would have picked, so you wouldn't always see the things you wanted to see. So unless someone posted all the cutscenes on youtube with every single branch of dialog represented, then no.

I do enjoy the rpg combat, but I play these games mainly for the opportunity to interact in the story. If the next Bioware game was a platformer, but still had interesting characters and and presented difficult choices for me to make in between the platforming sections, I would be fine with that.

ME3 had story mode..

[hoorayforicecream]

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

Cause at times puzzles can be just as cumbersome as combat.

The Water Temple is a prime example of this. (Tremble in fear at the memory of not knowing where those keys are!)

So... you're just running a straw man argument by making things up that people actually did not say, with a little slippery slope thrown in?

No I'm honestly wondering if its just combat that's causing these problems, or if sections like the fade/deep roads/mini puzzels(shale puzzle/ashes puzzle) also fall under things that people may want to be skipped.

Personally I never had a problem with the deep roads, but I can clearly see why people want to skip the fade. The mini puzzles I never found bad, but its easy to go over board with them if you aren't careful.

Or are people ok with the idea of the adventure stuff, but just find the style of combat DA has provided too tedious/difficult/whatever?

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask how people want to play through the story of these games, be it skipping cinematics, combat, adventure content, something else, or none.

What you were doing was not wondering, it was pretending that you knew. You declared all games with stories and without combat to be visual novels (which was wrong), and then you declared that puzzles and exploration should be treated the same as combat. If you were really wondering, then you would be asking questions of the people who have specifically stated that they didn't like excessive amounts of combat, rather than simply assuming that people who would like to skip combat would also like skipping exploration, puzzles, or other gameplay elements like you did in the post I originally quoted from you.

I can tell you that the Deep Roads and the Fade were not appealing to me because they went for overly long periods of time with no actual story progression. I did puzzle after puzzle, fought battle after battle, but there was no feeling of progression toward a goal, only "get to the next area". If the goal was more coherent and focused, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. As it was, it felt more like busywork. 

If you genuinely want dialogue, I would suggest you stop putting words in others' mouths and let them speak for themselves.

[slimgrin]

Do you want skippable cutscenes, or a good story? Choose.

[Fawx9]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Why are you conflating combat with other adventuring aspects like puzzles and finding hidden stuff?

Cause at times puzzles can be just as cumbersome as combat.

The Water Temple is a prime example of this. (Tremble in fear at the memory of not knowing where those keys are!)

So... you're just running a straw man argument by making things up that people actually did not say, with a little slippery slope thrown in?

No I'm honestly wondering if its just combat that's causing these problems, or if sections like the fade/deep roads/mini puzzels(shale puzzle/ashes puzzle) also fall under things that people may want to be skipped.

Personally I never had a problem with the deep roads, but I can clearly see why people want to skip the fade. The mini puzzles I never found bad, but its easy to go over board with them if you aren't careful.

Or are people ok with the idea of the adventure stuff, but just find the style of combat DA has provided too tedious/difficult/whatever?

I don't think it's an unfair question to ask how people want to play through the story of these games, be it skipping cinematics, combat, adventure content, something else, or none.

What you were doing was not wondering, it was pretending that you knew. You declared all games with stories and without combat to be visual novels (which was wrong), and then you declared that puzzles and exploration should be treated the same as combat. If you were really wondering, then you would be asking questions of the people who have specifically stated that they didn't like excessive amounts of combat, rather than simply assuming that people who would like to skip combat would also like skipping exploration, puzzles, or other gameplay elements like you did in the post I originally quoted from you.

I can tell you that the Deep Roads and the Fade were not appealing to me because they went for overly long periods of time with no actual story progression. I did puzzle after puzzle, fought battle after battle, but there was no feeling of progression toward a goal, only "get to the next area". If the goal was more coherent and focused, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. As it was, it felt more like busywork. 

If you genuinely want dialogue, I would suggest you stop putting words in others' mouths and let them speak for themselves.

Ok, so I agree that my phrasing, was less than adequate(to put it mildly).

However I will stand by my (slightly convoluted) point, which is, if we are going to start talking about skipping things, then we might as well bring out all the things that can cause problems. Cause just saying 'combat', to me, means skipping a whole section in the deep roads until you get to a talking point. Whereas it really contains adventure/puzzle/combat elements that might all be causing underlying problems.