1059 réponses à ce sujet

[StayFrosty05]

Pantanplan wrote...

I choose peace everytime in Rannoch, and I like Legion's character, but you can't deny the fact that the geth slaughtered billions of innocents. They are presented as innocent and looking for guidance, and that the quarians are 100% responsible, but really, only 17 million quarians were left after the Morning War. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies such slaughter. To all of you who support the geth and Legion's version of their history: how are the geth innocent and lost children, while the quarians the aggressive instigators who deserve genocide?
Beforethe Reaper code upload the geth were indvidual VI-like programs who only gained intelligence by grouping together. The quarians have families, children, civilians while the geth have none of this. When peace isn't an option, why do some save the geth and let the quarians die?

Shep doesn't Gerral does....unless Shep can talkjitsu Gerrel down, Shep doesn't get a say....Gerrels the one who persists in getting all the Quarians killed.

[The Spamming Troll]

is EDI the normandy or dr EVAs body? i know she said shes mainly in the normandy, but what is to be held accountable for the things EDI does with dr evas body?

is she both?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:15 .

[Steelcan]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

is EDI the normandy or dr EVAs body? i know she said shes mainly in the normandy, but what is to be held accountable for the things EDI does with dr evas body?

is she both?

both

[D4rkSektor]

First of all, it is genocide to wipe out the Geth. They are sentient and sapient. There is no escaping that. It doesn't matter if they are organic or synthetic, it's genocide.

Second, I see a lot of people talking about how the Geth were morally equivalent of children. While that does make it a bit easier to understand why they did what they did, it still does not excuse slaughter of billions, most of whom were civilians.

Third, people here who say that they allowed the Geth to wipe out the Quarians attempting to retake Rannoch are just as bad. If you do not have the moral capacity to understand that it is the same ****ing thing, no matter how hard you attempt to justify it, then you are certainly not in any position to decide the fate of two races. Peace is the only option.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Steelcan]

It is not genocide. Even Legion admits that the Geth are not alive until he uploads the code.

[D4rkSektor]

Steelcan wrote...

It is not genocide. Even Legion admits that the Geth are not alive until he uploads the code.

Not alive in the same way that organics are, but alive nonetheless. Therefore, genocide.

[m2iCodeJockey]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
is EDI the normandy or dr EVAs body? i know she said shes mainly in the normandy, but what is to be held accountable for the things EDI does with dr evas body?
is she both?

FemShep: "Yes. She's all the hardware that EDI uses to execut-... Just a minute..."
In the war room QEC...
TIM (comms:) "I thought I told you we're through talking."
FemShep: "Tim, why do you have an anatomically correct replica of your best friend?"
TIM (comms:) "I... Uh... don't understand."
FemShep: "Walks, talks and even smells like a person?"
TIM (comms:) "Hmm..."
FemShep: "Yep."
TIM (comms:) *drags cigarette*

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Pantanplan wrote...

They are presented as innocent and looking for guidance, and that the quarians are 100% responsible.

They are 100% responsible for the creation of the geth, attempted genocide and any deaths resulting from their own foolishness.

The Geth are responsible for doing some horrific things aswell, but  the quarians claim ultimate credit for making it possible in the first place - the Geth can't be credited with their own creation anymore than they can their own evolution. The quarians started it, thats just the way it is.

Short story;
War = credit to quarians
Personal attrocities = credit to each side for each perticular event.

Pantanplan wrote...
To all of you who support the geth and Legion's version of their history: how are the geth innocent and lost children, while the quarians the aggressive instigators who deserve genocide?

Ok, this one is pretty self explanitory. The Quarians are the aggressors, they are the instigators. You don't have to listen to anything Lgeion says to discover this. Personally, I have no love for the quarians, but they don't deserve death. Nether do the Geth. I side with the Geth mainly A. because i can and B. because Tali's "shepard you can't choose the geth over my people" sounds like a challenge.

Pantanplan wrote...
The quarians have families, children, civilians while the geth have none of this.

Irrelevant. You are saying the Geth are less entitled to life purely based on the fact that they do not conform to organic patterns of development. While its a valid opinion, it's not one i accept or agree with.

Pantanplan wrote...
When peace isn't an option, why do some save the geth and let the quarians die?

Because of personal preference.  

[garrusfan1]

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

[KingZayd]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
That's the same as the person who did commit the crimes.
They are the same person. They both are the person that committed the crime.

So, you are saying person 2 was present when the crime was committed?

Yes. Because Person 2 was person 1.

So, person 1 is occupying to regions of space at one time?

At the very moment which a second person 1 appears (assuming it's instantaneous)
Then person 1a starts to develop in different ways to person 1b, due to the fact that they begin to have different experiences. Both were person 1.

You've contradicted yourself: 1b does not have actual experience, just the belief that he has.
(aren't you glad someone is actually thinking about this BEFORE cybernetic beings exist?)

I did not. 1b starts off as the same person as 1a.

I'm glad you're thinking. Would feel better if you thought better though

[Steelcan]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

Yes, but I doubt the quarians killed nearly as many quarians as the geth did.

And the geth didn't let them leave out of mercy, they were conflited, not hesitant.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

TurianWarlord wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Your point is refuted by the fact that the geth did know when to stop. After the had exterminated 99.% of the population, within one year.

How did they know, they had only achieved sentience a few months, maybe a year or two before, also the reason the quarians survived was because they escaped in the migrant fleet
Also if im wrong just tell me, its been a while since ive trawled throught the lore...

There's also the fact that until ME3 the true geth hated the Reapers.   But then came the retcons.....

Did they hate the Reapers? Even if they did, they probably weren't willing to die for their hate.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Pantanplan wrote...

I choose peace everytime in Rannoch, and I like Legion's character, but you can't deny the fact that the geth slaughtered billions of innocents.

True.

Pantanplan wrote...
They are presented as innocent and looking for guidance, and that the quarians are 100% responsible, but really, only 17 million quarians were left after the Morning War. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies such slaughter.

Hey, I don't know the circumstances of the war. I don't know if the quarians tried to surrender. I don't know what military options were available to the geth. For all I know they did what they had to do to defend themselves.

Pantanplan wrote...
To all of you who support the geth and Legion's version of their history: how are the geth innocent and lost children, while the quarians the aggressive instigators who deserve genocide?

During the Morning War? The quarians started the genocide game. I feel bad for those of them who were against the idea, but I would have felt worse if the geth stood back and let themselves be slaughtered.

During the current conflict? The Quarians are the ones attempting genocide again. The geth are willing to be friends. The quarians are the aggressors here, and the only thing I'm willing to do is give them a warning that they're about to fly into lasery death and they can avert this by simply not firing. If I'm in a good mood, it's an inspirational speech instead.

Pantanplan wrote...
Beforethe Reaper code upload the geth were indvidual VI-like programs who only gained intelligence by grouping together.

And? Are hive minds less worthy of live than individuals now?

Pantanplan wrote...
The quarians have families, children, civilians while the geth have none of this.

The quarians are the ones who used their liveships in an attack. Once your civilians are in a vehicle that's shooting at an enemy, they're no longer civilians. I think that's even in the official laws of war.

And why should I side with a race just because they have babies instead of being born grown-up? Does that make them more worthy of life?

Pantanplan wrote...
When peace isn't an option, why do some save the geth and let the quarians die?

Because the quarians started this and despite several warnings, they refused to stop it. The geth are defending themselves. The quarians are trying to wipe another species out. If the geth were the ones who sought the quarian fleet out and refused to stop firing on it, I'd be siding with the quarians.

[KingZayd]

Calinstel wrote...

TurianWarlord wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Your point is refuted by the fact that the geth did know when to stop. After the had exterminated 99.% of the population, within one year.

How did they know, they had only achieved sentience a few months, maybe a year or two before, also the reason the quarians survived was because they escaped in the migrant fleet
Also if im wrong just tell me, its been a while since ive trawled throught the lore...

Actually, it is stated in the game.
The geth allowed the quarians to escape for one reason only.  They could not reach consensus on what would be the outcome of killing all of the creators.
Not whether they should or not but what would happen if they did.

Which makes what the Geth did equal to the what the Quarians tried to do.

[m2iCodeJockey]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

You've missed something: The Geth released poison into their planet's atmosphere. SOME Quarians escaped but, not because they were allowed to.

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

TurianWarlord wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Your point is refuted by the fact that the geth did know when to stop. After the had exterminated 99.% of the population, within one year.

How did they know, they had only achieved sentience a few months, maybe a year or two before, also the reason the quarians survived was because they escaped in the migrant fleet
Also if im wrong just tell me, its been a while since ive trawled throught the lore...

There's also the fact that until ME3 the true geth hated the Reapers.   But then came the retcons.....

Did they hate the Reapers? Even if they did, they probably weren't willing to die for their hate.

Apparantly they found submission preferable to extinction.... In the end they died along with their former masters.

[Fayfel]

There is no proof that geth slaughtered the quarian population. It's far more likely quarian society was so dependent upon the geth that it couldn't cope without them.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

TurianWarlord wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Your point is refuted by the fact that the geth did know when to stop. After the had exterminated 99.% of the population, within one year.

How did they know, they had only achieved sentience a few months, maybe a year or two before, also the reason the quarians survived was because they escaped in the migrant fleet
Also if im wrong just tell me, its been a while since ive trawled throught the lore...

There's also the fact that until ME3 the true geth hated the Reapers.   But then came the retcons.....

Did they hate the Reapers? Even if they did, they probably weren't willing to die for their hate.

Apparantly they found submission preferable to extinction.... In the end they died along with their former masters.

They did in mine too. But not because I bore them ill will. Because I felt the most sensible solution was to get rid of the Reapers.

I didn't feel too guilty, because clearly that was the relationship we had with the  Geth. If it comes to the matter of our survival (as it is with the Reapers), then the Geth are expendable.

Modifié par KingZayd, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Steelcan]

Amakiir wrote...

There is no proof that geth slaughtered the quarian population. It's far more likely quarian society was so dependent upon the geth that it couldn't cope without them.

Obvious troll is obvious, and if you really aren't trolling you need to replay ME1,2,3

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Apparantly they found submission preferable to extinction.... In the end they died along with their former masters.

They did in mine too. But not because I bore them ill will. Because I felt the most sensible solution was to get rid of the Reapers.

I didn't feel too guilty, because clearly that was the relationship we had with the  Geth. If it comes to the matter of our survival (as it is with the Reapers), then the Geth are expendable.

I really only made peace because the geth are so damn useful against the Reapers

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Apparantly they found submission preferable to extinction.... In the end they died along with their former masters.

They did in mine too. But not because I bore them ill will. Because I felt the most sensible solution was to get rid of the Reapers.

I didn't feel too guilty, because clearly that was the relationship we had with the  Geth. If it comes to the matter of our survival (as it is with the Reapers), then the Geth are expendable.

I really only made peace because the geth are so damn useful against the Reapers

I made peace because I saw no need for continuation of these petty wars. If forced to choose though, I was ready to let the Quarians die. I did tell them not to start that stupid war.

[CrimsonZephyr]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

And no modern war has ever resulted in a 99+% casualty rate. That goes beyond mindless collateral damage. The geth specifically targeted Quarian civilians, slaughtered them, occupied Rannoch, shot down any ship that approached them, irrespective of intent, and then were surprised that the retreating Quarians would want their home back and would be skeptical of the assertion that the machine race that turned them into a wandering remnant would simply let them come back.

I say scrap every geth.

[KingZayd]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

And no modern war has ever resulted in a 99+% casualty rate. That goes beyond mindless collateral damage. The geth specifically targeted Quarian civilians, slaughtered them, occupied Rannoch, shot down any ship that approached them, irrespective of intent, and then were surprised that the retreating Quarians would want their home back and would be skeptical of the assertion that the machine race that turned them into a wandering remnant would simply let them come back.

I say scrap every geth.

Not necessarily. If they used chemical weapons on the entire planet, then they are not specifically targeting civillians for example.

Besides, ALL Geth were civillians before the Quarians tried to kill them.

Modifié par KingZayd, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:04 .

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Apparantly they found submission preferable to extinction.... In the end they died along with their former masters.

They did in mine too. But not because I bore them ill will. Because I felt the most sensible solution was to get rid of the Reapers.

I didn't feel too guilty, because clearly that was the relationship we had with the  Geth. If it comes to the matter of our survival (as it is with the Reapers), then the Geth are expendable.

I really only made peace because the geth are so damn useful against the Reapers

I made peace because I saw no need for continuation of these petty wars. If forced to choose though, I was ready to let the Quarians die. I did tell them not to start that stupid war.

And I was ready to watch the geth burn.

[DirtySHISN0]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Uh the quarians also killed other quarians remember. The quarians who didn't want the war were either put in prison or killed remember according to the geth consensus mission. The geth could have easily wiped out the quarians but they didn't so while it wasn't exactly ethical they weren't genocidal freaks. In modern warfare (not the game) civilian casualties are almost innevitable

And no modern war has ever resulted in a 99+% casualty rate. That goes beyond mindless collateral damage. The geth specifically targeted Quarian civilians, slaughtered them, occupied Rannoch, shot down any ship that approached them, irrespective of intent, and then were surprised that the retreating Quarians would want their home back and would be skeptical of the assertion that the machine race that turned them into a wandering remnant would simply let them come back.

I say scrap every geth.

So you are blaming a creature that is built upon Logic for doing the logical thing and empathising with creatures based on emotion for responding emotionally?