1059 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The quarians attempted genocide, the geth responded with genocide.

+1

Attempted being the key word.  The geth were too zealous in their retribution.

Failure is no more moral than success.

"Morality" a watchword for those too weak to stomach what must be done.

Then so is overzealous. The only crime that the Geth are guilty of and that the Quarians are not (in this case) is success.

And murder

Nope. Quarians are guilty of that too. Even against Quarians.

In order for it to be murder the geth would have to be alive, they aren't until the code is uploaded.  and those other quarians would have been killed by the geth evantually, they didn't spare anyone remember

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It boils down to numbers. If I need the war assets I make peace. I don't understand why Tali leaves it up to Shepard to make the call. It's not Shepard's call.

Tali, be a fkn Admiral! Don't ask Shepard's permission. This is your world. Kill Legion on your own! Don't leave it up to Shepard! Do you care about your people or not? (ren interrupt prevents it -- take your chances on a peace dialogue)

This was the most contrived situation in the game, and it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Then you give Shepard the choice of killing Tali and going back to Hackett with nothing. Or accepting Tali's decision.

I always liked Tali. But she has always been a scared little girl. This is why she just stands in shock as Shepard dooms her species, and then does.. what she does.

[Steelcan]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Well they were at least aware of their existence. That's semi-alive.

A dog is aware of its existencce. 

[spirosz]

That "praying" segment on Feros sold me on their existence and their sense of being "alive", Legion was just icing on da cake. Too bad he did a 180.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The quarians attempted genocide, the geth responded with genocide.

+1

Attempted being the key word.  The geth were too zealous in their retribution.

Failure is no more moral than success.

"Morality" a watchword for those too weak to stomach what must be done.

Then so is overzealous. The only crime that the Geth are guilty of and that the Quarians are not (in this case) is success.

And murder

Nope. Quarians are guilty of that too. Even against Quarians.

In order for it to be murder the geth would have to be alive, they aren't until the code is uploaded.  and those other quarians would have been killed by the geth evantually, they didn't spare anyone remember

They were alive before the code is uploaded. They just weren't as intelligent. Those other Quarians wouldn't have been killed by the Geth eventually if the war hadn't even started due to the aforementioned genocide attempt.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Well they were at least aware of their existence. That's semi-alive.

A dog is aware of its existencce. 

And dogs are alive.

[StayFrosty05]

Steelcan wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Well they were at least aware of their existence. That's semi-alive.

A dog is aware of its existencce. 

And a dog is fully alive.

[DirtySHISN0]

Steelcan wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Well they were at least aware of their existence. That's semi-alive.

A dog is aware of its existencce. 

You are aware of your existence.

What differentiates our awaresness from theirs?

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[IscrewTali]

During the rannoch missions legion told shep that he has reaper code, thus already being a true AI. Who knows how long hes had that code in him? Perhaps even before me2, when he acquired sheps armor. All hes done is lie and deceive you, just to get to this point. Acting innocent and part of the "true" geth. Weve never even heard of the true geth, other than legions word for it. The "heretic" ship in me2 couldve just been a clever act to secure sheps trust in legion. I saved the geth to fight the reapers, then destroyed em along with their old masters.

Sorry for **** text, on phone.

[DirtySHISN0]

IscrewTali wrote...

During the rannoch missions legion told shep that he has reaper code, thus already being a true AI. Who knows how long hes had that code in him? Perhaps even before me2, when he acquired sheps armor. All hes done is lie and deceive you, just to get to this point. Acting innocent and part of the "true" geth. Weve never even heard of the true geth, other than legions word for it. The "heretic" ship in me2 couldve just been a clever act to secure sheps trust in legion. I saved the geth to fight the reapers, then destroyed em along with their old masters.

Sorry for **** text, on phone.

So we should side with the quarians because they are immune from the potential of lying? or because they do foolish things straight up to our faces?

[Steelcan]

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

[DirtySHISN0]

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Good. Now, with reference to the same aspects, what differentiates humans from geth?

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[m2iCodeJockey]

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Yep. That is a new person. The old person experienced brain death by modern definition.
Make sure to leave your doppelganger your possessions...

Thought you'd say that. I know someone else who feels the same way.
The majority of our cells didn't experience things we remember to be part of our past too.

I realize and I won't go into the implications except that, by modern definitions, in 6th Day, when each of the clones grabs the possession of the previous, the crime they are guilty of has to do with "who inherits x person's possession" until they actually start shooting each other. They are also guilty of identity theft as no two of them will have the same fingerprints and iris patterns (I'm sure someone thought of that while writing that script...)

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

[The Night Mammoth]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

That's a strawman. 

[Steelcan]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Good. Now, with reference to the same aspects, what differentiates humans from geth?

The ability to see things outside the collective.  When the geth reach concensus that is it.  There are always outliers with humans.  i like Samara's line "If there are three humans in a room, there will be six opinions".

[KingZayd]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Yep. That is a new person. The old person experienced brain death by modern definition.
Make sure to leave your doppelganger your possessions...

Thought you'd say that. I know someone else who feels the same way.
The majority of our cells didn't experience things we remember to be part of our past too.

I realize and I won't go into the implications except that, by modern definitions, in 6th Day, when each of the clones grabs the possession of the previous, the crime they are guilty of has to do with "who inherits x person's possession" until they actually start shooting each other. They are also guilty of identity theft as no two of them will have the same fingerprints and iris patterns (I'm someone thought of that while writing that script...)

Unfortunately I haven't even watched 6th day, so I just hope that this hasn't been too much of a spoiler

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

No, the quarians did what they thought was right.  The geth only acted out of reflex, and never bothered to stop.

[KingZayd]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

That's a strawman. 

How so?
it's just being consistent.

[IscrewTali]

Just pointing out the geth are not as innocent as they appear. I dont like the quarians either, but the stupid crucible machine doesnt let me target them aswell. Brokering peace with them instead of letting them die on rannoch is a smart move tactically. And thw fact that i allways wanted to destroy the reapers, losing the geth as a result is a very small price to pay.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

No, the quarians did what they thought was right.  The geth only acted out of reflex, and never bothered to stop.

No the Quarians did what they thought was logical. As did the Geth.

The Quarians that did what they thought was right, got killed by their own people.

[m2iCodeJockey]

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Yep. That is a new person. The old person experienced brain death by modern definition.
Make sure to leave your doppelganger your possessions...

Thought you'd say that. I know someone else who feels the same way.
The majority of our cells didn't experience things we remember to be part of our past too.

I realize and I won't go into the implications except that, by modern definitions, in 6th Day, when each of the clones grabs the possession of the previous, the crime they are guilty of has to do with "who inherits x person's possession" until they actually start shooting each other. They are also guilty of identity theft as no two of them will have the same fingerprints and iris patterns (I'm someone thought of that while writing that script...)

Unfortunately I haven't even watched 6th day, so I just hope that this hasn't been too much of a spoiler

No. It was bad-assed, too. Blew a script I was working on but, bad-assed.

[The Night Mammoth]

KingZayd wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Well clearly Quarians are also not sapient then. Since apparently they couldn't tell right from wrong. Lets kill the Quarians on Rannoch, then the Geth with the Crucible. Deal?

That's a strawman. 

How so?
it's just being consistent.

The Quarians making a mistake, or not being able to tell right from wrong in one instance, does not mean they aren't sapient. 

You know that. 

[DirtySHISN0]

Steelcan wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dogs are alive, but not sapient. They cannot tell right from wrong, they cannot make their own decisions about the nature of life. They are not the equal of a human.

Good. Now, with reference to the same aspects, what differentiates humans from geth?

The ability to see things outside the collective.  When the geth reach concensus that is it.  There are always outliers with humans.  i like Samara's line "If there are three humans in a room, there will be six opinions".

I don't see a meaningful distinction. You have concluded because they reach a decision in a different manner that the opinion is less valid. 

Lacking perspective, is not exclusively a synthetic trait - enter the quarians.