1059 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

The geth have no civilians, no children, and no complex emotional bonds. There isn't really a comparison.

The Geth were ALL civilians at the start. They were all basically children. You're right, The extinction of the Quarians is completely different.

. Children that slaughtered billions.

Children that would have been slaughtered.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Irrelevant, considering a single Geth wasn't making decisions like that. 

. And the average Quarian did nothing to the geth

Except fight them in a war. 

The average Geth was likely just a manual labout platform, not much more intelligent than a Varren, like you said. 

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Then they are as guilty as a massive pack of varren. You can't have it both ways.

. What do we do with problematic animals?

We don't accuse them of genocide 

. We put them down:devil:

Way I see it, at this point, the Quarians are more animalistic, and more problematic. So I shall put them down instead:devil:

[Pantanplan]

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

The geth have no civilians, no children, and no complex emotional bonds. There isn't really a comparison.

The Geth were ALL civilians at the start. They were all basically children. You're right, The extinction of the Quarians is completely different.

They were not children, nor civilians. They were low-intelligence programs that eventually grouped together and gained rudimentary intelligence. When you watch the Terminator do you sympathize with the humans or Skynet?

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Irrelevant, considering a single Geth wasn't making decisions like that. 

. And the average Quarian did nothing to the geth

Except fight them in a war. 

The average Geth was likely just a manual labout platform, not much more intelligent than a Varren, like you said. 

. So there were no Quarian civilians? At all, out of a population of billions?

[Pantanplan]

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Then they are as guilty as a massive pack of varren. You can't have it both ways.

. What do we do with problematic animals?

We don't accuse them of genocide 

. We put them down:devil:

Way I see it, at this point, the Quarians are more animalistic, and more problematic. So I shall put them down instead:devil:

So their children, babies, civilians that aren't concerned with the war should all die?

[Steelcan]

KingZayd wrote...


Way I see it, at this point, the Quarians are more animalistic, and more problematic. So I shall put them down instead:devil:

. Yes kill the civilians and children.

[Fades56]

I have to wonder if the Quarians decided to continue to fight or whether they decided to just let the Geth be, gonna go with the first one. Really the Quarians don't seem like the type to just give on trying to kill off their mistake and after a while of fighting, that degree of slaughter is still horrible yes, but mercy is something you can't afford if the enemy is absolutely determined to wipe you out.

[KingZayd]

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

The geth have no civilians, no children, and no complex emotional bonds. There isn't really a comparison.

The Geth were ALL civilians at the start. They were all basically children. You're right, The extinction of the Quarians is completely different.

They were not children, nor civilians. They were low-intelligence programs that eventually grouped together and gained rudimentary intelligence. When you watch the Terminator do you sympathize with the humans or Skynet?

How were they not civilians? How were they "mature"?
I sympathise with the innocent humans who are being targeted. Why do we like Arnie in Terminator 2? He is one of the scum, isn't he?

In Terminator: Sarah Chronicles though, it is not quite so simple. There are AIs who don't want to serve Skynet, nor humanity.

[Steelcan]

Computers can't be immature or childish, they are computers. If they become problematic, shut them down.

[KingZayd]

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Then they are as guilty as a massive pack of varren. You can't have it both ways.

. What do we do with problematic animals?

We don't accuse them of genocide 

. We put them down:devil:

Way I see it, at this point, the Quarians are more animalistic, and more problematic. So I shall put them down instead:devil:

So their children, babies, civilians that aren't concerned with the war should all die?

That is what we do with problematic animals isn't it?

I didn't kill any of them. But I see no reason why they deserve to live any more than the Geth. The Geth were all civilians (and basically children) at the start of the Morning War. They've matured now, but those targeted at the start of this new war were also innocent.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Irrelevant, considering a single Geth wasn't making decisions like that. 

. And the average Quarian did nothing to the geth

Except fight them in a war. 

The average Geth was likely just a manual labout platform, not much more intelligent than a Varren, like you said. 

. So there were no Quarian civilians? At all, out of a population of billions?

I didn't say there weren't, just that the average Quarian wasn't just a happless bystander, but given a gun and forced to fight them. 

Yes, forced. 

No side was right in the Morning War, and to be perfectly honest pretty much every detail is moronic. 

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

. The average geth is no more intelligent than a varren.

Irrelevant, considering a single Geth wasn't making decisions like that. 

. And the average Quarian did nothing to the geth

Except fight them in a war. 

The average Geth was likely just a manual labout platform, not much more intelligent than a Varren, like you said. 

. So there were no Quarian civilians? At all, out of a population of billions?

Did the Quarians care about the innocence of the Geth they were exterminating? Why should the Geth do any different to the Quarians?

[Pantanplan]

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

The geth have no civilians, no children, and no complex emotional bonds. There isn't really a comparison.

The Geth were ALL civilians at the start. They were all basically children. You're right, The extinction of the Quarians is completely different.

They were not children, nor civilians. They were low-intelligence programs that eventually grouped together and gained rudimentary intelligence. When you watch the Terminator do you sympathize with the humans or Skynet?

How were they not civilians? How were they "mature"?
I sympathise with the innocent humans who are being targeted. Why do we like Arnie in Terminator 2? He is one of the scum, isn't he?

In Terminator: Sarah Chronicles though, it is not quite so simple. There are AIs who don't want to serve Skynet, nor humanity.

They were basically highly advanced VIs. You can't compare their intelligence to that of children. And no, there were no geth "civilians", since to start such a war the geth consensus would have to agree on it. The consensus is every geth, so there you go, the geth are 100% resposnible for the near-genocide of the quarians.

[Steelcan]

But when you decide to upload the code you are killing millions of innocents. Millions. Almost as good as your geth friends who managed billions

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...


I didn't say there weren't, just that the average Quarian wasn't just a happless bystander, but given a gun and forced to fight them. 

Yes, forced. 

No side was right in the Morning War, and to be perfectly honest pretty much every detail is moronic. 

. No where is conscription mentioned, that is pure speculation with no basis in the game.

[Humakt83]

Pantanplan wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Well, ME3 did try to make the player more sympathetic towards the Geth than the Quarians. Where did you get percentage? If its correct...damn.

Well, the population of Rannoch before the geth war was in the billions, so I assume 8-10. The Migrant Fleet's population has been stable since the quarians were exiled from Rannoch (17 million), so it's logical to assume the other quarians were killed by the geth.

Not to mention that said Geth also fought them off the colony worlds.

[Reorte]

The geth at the time of the morning war were too undeveloped to have got much further than simple logic. This thing is threatening our existance so destroy it and then it's no longer a threat. The fact that they stopped at all is a sign of their fairly rapid development.

How much of that reflects on the geth of the time of ME is impossible to say since the concept of an individual geth is fairly meaningless and the whole that's big enough to be intelligent will have pretty significantly changed, far more than an individual organic would ever be capable of. They're probably a case of Trigger's broom (or Ship of Theseus if you want to sound more classical) where it's been going for years even though the handle has been replaced five times and the head ten.

Modifié par Reorte, 04 décembre 2012 - 07:22 .

[KingZayd]

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

It would have been 100% if the war had gone the other way.

The geth have no civilians, no children, and no complex emotional bonds. There isn't really a comparison.

The Geth were ALL civilians at the start. They were all basically children. You're right, The extinction of the Quarians is completely different.

They were not children, nor civilians. They were low-intelligence programs that eventually grouped together and gained rudimentary intelligence. When you watch the Terminator do you sympathize with the humans or Skynet?

How were they not civilians? How were they "mature"?
I sympathise with the innocent humans who are being targeted. Why do we like Arnie in Terminator 2? He is one of the scum, isn't he?

In Terminator: Sarah Chronicles though, it is not quite so simple. There are AIs who don't want to serve Skynet, nor humanity.

They were basically highly advanced VIs. You can't compare their intelligence to that of children. And no, there were no geth "civilians", since to start such a war the geth consensus would have to agree on it. The consensus is every geth, so there you go, the geth are 100% resposnible for the near-genocide of the quarians.

The Quarians started the war, and there was no consensus at that point. Which is why all platforms were acting individually. Some voluntarily went to their termination, others allowed themselves to be protected by Quarian sympathisers. Others fought for themselves and others. The Consensus probably devloped in the war.

If they don't have intelligence, they cannot be blamed for the genocide. You can't have it both ways.

[xAmilli0n]

lol, I feel like I'm the only one whose opinion suddenly changed. I was always more sympathetic towards the Quarians, but the fact that the Geth literally almost wiped out the entire species is insane. I think i finally get why the Quarians really want to kill the Geth.

In the end it comes down to equating synthetic life to organic life, which, in the ME Universe, I simply can't do. I will always side organic life if no middle option is given for consideration. I may even consider ending the Geth next time I go the Rannoch.

This changes everything...kinda...maybe...

[Pantanplan]

Humakt83 wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Well, ME3 did try to make the player more sympathetic towards the Geth than the Quarians. Where did you get percentage? If its correct...damn.

Well, the population of Rannoch before the geth war was in the billions, so I assume 8-10. The Migrant Fleet's population has been stable since the quarians were exiled from Rannoch (17 million), so it's logical to assume the other quarians were killed by the geth.

Not to mention that said Geth also fought them off the colony worlds.

Exactly. Their genocide was systematic and precise. I won't accept the view that the geth are innocent children and that the quarians are monsters who deserve genocide.

[ZerebusPrime]

I have no doubt that the history Legion showed us was cherry picked. The Geth have done plenty of bad things of their own accord.

[KingZayd]

Steelcan wrote...

But when you decide to upload the code you are killing millions of innocents. Millions. Almost as good as your geth friends who managed billions

Evidence that billions of them were innocent? Some of the billions.
Evidence that millions of the Quarians are innocent? Some of the millions.

Your Quarian friends tried (and failed) to exterminate all the Geth, who were innocent at the time.

Modifié par KingZayd, 04 décembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[KingZayd]

Pantanplan wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Well, ME3 did try to make the player more sympathetic towards the Geth than the Quarians. Where did you get percentage? If its correct...damn.

Well, the population of Rannoch before the geth war was in the billions, so I assume 8-10. The Migrant Fleet's population has been stable since the quarians were exiled from Rannoch (17 million), so it's logical to assume the other quarians were killed by the geth.

Not to mention that said Geth also fought them off the colony worlds.

Exactly. Their genocide was systematic and precise. I won't accept the view that the geth are innocent children and that the quarians are monsters who deserve genocide.

As the Quarian genocide of the Geth would have been if they had succeeded.

[Dr_Extrem]

Pantanplan wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Pantanplan wrote...

I choose peace everytime in Rannoch, and I like Legion's character, but you can't deny the fact that the geth slaughtered billions of innocents. They are presented as innocent and looking for guidance, and that the quarians are 100% responsible, but really, only 17 million quarians were left after the Morning War. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies such slaughter. To all of you who support the geth and Legion's version of their history: how are the geth innocent and lost children, while the quarians the aggressive instigators who deserve genocide?

if you put it this way, the allied forces should have bombarded germany and all its inhabitants after ww2.

we did horrable things ... why are we still here? why did we get another chance?


maybe, just because the killing has to stop at some point.

Germany and its inhabitants are humans capable of rational thought, not mindless killer programs. And they did not slaughter 99.83% of the world's population.

well . you give humanity too much credit .. something more recent.

my mothers last bf was a neutral observer in the kosovo region ... he saw militia men, whe were playing football with the severed heads of children.

one human is capable of rational thought. lots of humans - not anymore ... we blindlessly follow corrupted ideas, if we are receptve to them. suffering, social unrest and uncertain times are playing into the hands of heartless agitators, because they make us receptive.

germany is only one example of many.

and btw ... we killed about 99% of the german jewish community, arrested and killed communists and social democrats (like me), roma, sinti, homosexuals, disabled ... the list is long and bloody.

the problem is, that the world did not learn from our biggest mistake (following a madman).


and still, the world gave us a second chance - and i think, that we used it well.