JBPBRC wrote...
The entire Geth-Quarian conflict boils down to a series of questions applicable to both sides.
1. Why did you do that?
2. Why did you do that?
3. ...and so forth.
This is why I think Rannoch is overrated. Both sides are complete idiots.
Solmanian wrote...
JBPBRC wrote...
The entire Geth-Quarian conflict boils down to a series of questions applicable to both sides.
1. Why did you do that?
2. Why did you do that?
3. ...and so forth.
This is why I think Rannoch is overrated. Both sides are complete idiots.
Huh, that's not realy true... Everything both sides did is understnadble, just not always excusable. We know why they did that...
Well, I'd like to hear why they figured that "during a full scale Reaper invasion" is a good time to start another war with the geth. I literally cannot think of a worse time to do that.Huh, that's not realy true
cause those quarian infants were such a threat...SNascimento wrote...
The Geth were only doing what was expect of them, ie, killing an enemy that was trying to wipe them out from existence.
No civilization in the history of mankind won a war by sacrificing it's
capital, quite the opposite. Many times the battle for the capital was
the defining moment of the war.
moater boat wrote...
Of course the Geth committed Genocide. They slaughtered not only quarian military, but civilians. There is absolutely no way that Quarian in-fighting accounts for the deaths of billions.
The Geth apologists just need to accept that their favorite race
murdered infants by the boatload. Probably simply by stomping on their
soft little heads to conserve ammo.
Furthermore the fact that Geth don't die means that the Geth that killed all those innocent people are the very same ones that the Quarians are fighting in ME3.
Modifié par JBPBRC, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:29 .
Palavan was overrun.Solmanian wrote...
m2iCodeJockey wrote...
It may have been just dialog mistakes but, they failed to show strategic importance in the Sol system:
-Was that most of the Reaper fleet?
If so, I'd have considered blowing Sol if I had confidence it would knock out half or more at once.
The galaxy has BILLIONS of planets. Rannoch and Earth? Hmm...
Stratigic impotenct? how about the billions of people on it. You lose earth, and the human race is effectively extinct. 95%+ of humans still live on earth.
Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:42 .
If the words "paragon" or "renegade" enter one's reasoning, they're letting the game think for them. I refuse to do that.Solmanian wrote...
csmokey wrote...
dam you sheppard how could you kill those reapers, they were just doing there job
That's why I choose control... The detroy ending is just this, the ultimate renegade. Caling out "let the galaxy burn, as long as I get to kill them all!". Frankly, destroy sheperd is not that much better than the reapers. And the fact is most players choose it only cause it gives you a chance that shepard lives. I don't see the breathing at that point as a reward, more as a punishment.
Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:49 .
csmokey wrote...
dam you sheppard how could you kill those reapers, they were just doing there job
That's why I choose control... The detroy ending is just this, the ultimate renegade. Caling out "let the galaxy burn, as long as I get to kill them all!". Frankly, destroy sheperd is not that much better than the reapers. And the fact is most players choose it only cause it gives you a chance that shepard lives. I don't see the breathing at that point as a reward, more as a punishment.
Modifié par Nerevar-as, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:21 .
The flotila consists of 17 million quarians. This flotila is the same flotila that the survivng quarians used when they were exiled from Rannoch (although it has been expanded). Thus, it's logical to assume they were the only survivors. Pre-geth, Rannoch's population consisted of billions of quarians. Do the math, the geth slaughered nearly 99% of the quarian race.JBPBRC wrote...
moater boat wrote...
Of course the Geth committed Genocide. They slaughtered not only quarian military, but civilians. There is absolutely no way that Quarian in-fighting accounts for the deaths of billions.
Please, point to where its shown that Geth 100% killed 99% of the Quarian population. Facts please, not opinion.The Geth apologists just need to accept that their favorite race
murdered infants by the boatload. Probably simply by stomping on their
soft little heads to conserve ammo.
Aside from this being silly maliciousness, this doesn't make sense given that ammo wasn't a concern pre-ME2.Furthermore the fact that Geth don't die means that the Geth that killed all those innocent people are the very same ones that the Quarians are fighting in ME3.
Geth die. Geth die alot.
What Mass Effect games have you been playing? Surely it can't have been the ones where Geth have been dying left and right. Does yours have a better ending?
Modifié par Solmanian, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:27 .
JBPBRC wrote...
Geth: Am I a real boy?
Quarians: KILL IT WITH FIRE!
--Why?
JBPBRC wrote...
*war ends*
Quarians: We're totally leaving! We're not even gonna attempt to make peace!
--Why?
JBPBRC wrote...
Sovereign: Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!
Heretics: Okay.
Geth: THAT'S NOT TRUE! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
*Heretics leave, Geth do nothing*
--Why?
JBPBRC wrote...
Quarians go LEEROY JENKINS on the Geth in the middle of the Reaper conflict (if for no other reason than to have it be a plot point in ME3, and not in say...ME2)
Pantanplan wrote...
The flotila consists of 17 million quarians. This flotila is the same flotila that the survivng quarians used when they were exiled from Rannoch (although it has been expanded). Thus, it's logical to assume they were the only survivors. Pre-geth, Rannoch's population consisted of billions of quarians. Do the math, the geth slaughered nearly 99% of the quarian race.
Modifié par JBPBRC, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:39 .
Solmanian wrote...
JBPBRC wrote...
Geth: Am I a real boy?
Quarians: KILL IT WITH FIRE!
--Why?
I'll assume you mean the original geth/quarian conflict 300 years ago. A.I. development is illegal by citadel law. Were the quarian discovered they would've been sanctioned according to the law.
Best case scenario: geth are excepted as a new species recieve equal rights as quarians, and perhaps even an embassy. The geth and quarian become partner races, like hanar&drell, Turian&vulos.
Worst case scenario: A turian fleet comes to exterminate the geth. Means to said end range from dreadnaughts glassing all quarian worlds (extremely unlikely) to Turian ground forces going house to house dismanteling geth (similar to what the quarian military was doing). Considerable quarian lives lost inevitable. Resentment from the council over Turian lives lost "cleaning the quarian mess".
Most probable scenario: Economic and political sanctions. Council treatment of the geth is anybody guess, but unkikely that they would've recieved equality. Since the geth at this point were passive, it's likely any reprecutions would've been similar to human biotic activists and turian successionist: Civil rights movement would protest this treatment, while a few fringe groups would simply take geth to the terminus (beyond council juridstiction) and live in harmony.
Leaders frequently have to follow the old "hope for the best, assume the worst". The quarian leadership decided to sweep the geth under the rug, instead of facing the council wrath.
The quarians also state that sentients wouldn't have agreed to live as slaves like the geth were treated. That's somewhat correct, though the fact that those quarians justify exterminating the geth instead of simply stop using them as slaves is not.
Are their motives understandable, yes. Is their choice to wipe out a new setnient race, to avoid political sanction excusable? No.JBPBRC wrote...
*war ends*
Quarians: We're totally leaving! We're not even gonna attempt to make peace!
--Why?
Probably because 300 years of technophobic indoctrination (the educational kind) had the quarian convinced that the only way to deal with the geth, is to wipe them out.
In all the ME series, no quarian has ever said "it was a mistake trying to wipe the geth out". They're all just convinced that the only thing they did wrong was not succeeding in wiping them out. That by itself is areason to wipe those genocidal quarians out.JBPBRC wrote...
Sovereign: Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!
Heretics: Okay.
Geth: THAT'S NOT TRUE! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
*Heretics leave, Geth do nothing*
--Why?
What exactly were the geth suppose to do? Launch a crusade to annihilate the heretics? Is it the geth fault for not believing that they should kill somebody simply because they have a different opinion? The true geth don't agree with the heretics, but they respect their belief. If only organics would've been able to treat eachoder the same...JBPBRC wrote...
Quarians go LEEROY JENKINS on the Geth in the middle of the Reaper conflict (if for no other reason than to have it be a plot point in ME3, and not in say...ME2)
It isn't realy clear when the new conflict began. It could be that the fighting began before the reaper invasion. But more importently, the quarian developed a weapon that would finaly allow them to wipe out the geth (they were winning until the reaper intervention). Being unrepentent genocidal morons, they wanted to use as soon as possible, in fear that the geth would adapt to it.
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, I'd like to hear why they figured that "during a full scale Reaper invasion" is a good time to start another war with the geth. I literally cannot think of a worse time to do that.Huh, that's not realy true
thehomeworld wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, I'd like to hear why they figured that "during a full scale Reaper invasion" is a good time to start another war with the geth. I literally cannot think of a worse time to do that.Huh, that's not realy true
They were forceably evicting the squatters from Rannoch who have no good reason of being there other then to spite the Quarians for 300+ years.
Modifié par JBPBRC, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .
SNascimento wrote...
"You cannot play god, than wash your hands of the things you have created. Sooner or later the day comes, when you can't hide from the things you have done anymore".
The Quarian genocide was their responsability. The Geth were only doing what was expect of them, ie, killing an enemy that was trying to wipe them out from existence. It's a valid conclusion given the circustance that the only response to that is wipe them out in return.
The Geth, if anything, were merciful.
m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Palavan was overrun.
Thessia was also overrun.
Earth is not strategically more important than the other two while the Reapers are attacking the galaxy as a whole.
-A paragon says: "Save our families!!"
-A pragmatist says: "Is that where the Reapers are?! GET 'EM!!!"
So, Hackett, a pragmatist, says something that does not make sense if the audience hasn't been told 90%+ of Sovereign class are currently at Earth.
Before entering TIM's base: "Attacking Cerberus' Base is essentially the first step to retaking Earth." Why? You don't yet know the Citadel is important nor do you know the Citadel has been moved.
-Is there some military resource on Earth beside people that can't be moved since there aren't enough ships?
-Is there some counter offensive advantage to having control of the Charon relay?
Having no idea of the nature of the Crucible discharge ahead of time, he didn't know if they'd have ended up boxed into the Sol system with no way to resupply the non-levo troops.
It's setting up the remaining military force in a kill box.
Solmanian wrote...
m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Palavan was overrun.
Thessia was also overrun.
Earth is not strategically more important than the other two while the Reapers are attacking the galaxy as a whole.
-A paragon says: "Save our families!!"
-A pragmatist says: "Is that where the Reapers are?! GET 'EM!!!"
So, Hackett, a pragmatist, says something that does not make sense if the audience hasn't been told 90%+ of Sovereign class are currently at Earth.
Before entering TIM's base: "Attacking Cerberus' Base is essentially the first step to retaking Earth." Why? You don't yet know the Citadel is important nor do you know the Citadel has been moved.
-Is there some military resource on Earth beside people that can't be moved since there aren't enough ships?
-Is there some counter offensive advantage to having control of the Charon relay?
Having no idea of the nature of the Crucible discharge ahead of time, he didn't know if they'd have ended up boxed into the Sol system with no way to resupply the non-levo troops.
It's setting up the remaining military force in a kill box.
I'm not saying earth is more importent the the other homeworlds, but that it is as importent. And I doubt that the human soldiers of the alliance, and shepard (being human) would even agree to that.
What you're describing is not pragmatism. That's being a sociopath.
Lets say you're a police chief, and there's an armed terrorist holding a family as hostages. You can send SWAT team in to rescue them, but there's risk that he might shoot, or might even have a bomb. So you decide to blow up the house, to be on the safe side. Do you think anyone would consider you as a GOOD police chief?
But realy, if I can't convince you, that wiping out your own species is a bad idea all around, I'm not even going argue about this.
thehomeworld wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, I'd like to hear why they figured that "during a full scale Reaper invasion" is a good time to start another war with the geth. I literally cannot think of a worse time to do that.Huh, that's not realy true
They were forceably evicting the squatters from Rannoch who have no good reason of being there other then to spite the Quarians for 300+ years.
bobobo878 wrote...
In other news, a horde of synthetics operating under the contral of a rogue aritificial artificial intelligence rampaged across Rannoch today, wiping out 99.83% of the planet's indigenous population. Mercifuly, nothing of value was lost.
JBPBRC wrote...
Its not being a sociopath, its pure pragmatism. More commonly known is ME as being renegade, but pragmatism is the better-fitting word. A hostage scenario with a SWAT team is one thing, an all-out war where losing means you and everything in the galaxy become extinct calls for different tactics.
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