1059 réponses à ce sujet

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
What evidence do we have for the Quarians being "well-prepared" for a chemical attack?

The fact that they're a futuristic, technological society.  If Britain can do it in the late 1930s, the quarians can do it even better.

[justafan]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
How long did it take for Rannoch to be repaired? What if the chemical weapons only targeted Quarians? The fact that they have been reparing the biosphere, could also mean that the Geth no longer think chemical weapons are the best thing to use. Even if they're very effective.

Several hundred years.  But the fact that it was hundreds and not hundreds of thousands means that the biosphere wasn't massively damaged.  At the same time, the fact that the geth have been cleaning up the biosphere indicates that whatever they used wasn't tailored to only damage quarians.

Also consider the Quarians never had strong immune systems to begin with.  It wouldn't take much either, Turian common cold is probably lethal without proper treatment.

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Yes, and where were the combatants holed up? Did they keep themselves away from the civillians? What makes you think the civillians were targeted?

Because of the enormous death rate.  I get the concept of collateral damage, but you don't exterminate over 99% of a huge population of sapients by accident.

Besides, the geth are the villains in ME games.  They were the goons in ME1, they were a supporting cast of  villains in ME2, and they're working with the Reapers again in ME3.  Is is so hard to believe that they're the bad guys, when they've been the bad guys for the whole trilogy?

You do if you're using a weapon that kills everyone just the same.. chemical weapons for example.

I think you're overestimating the effectiveness of chemical weapons against a well-prepared adversary.  In fact, given proper NBC precautions, which the quarians almost certainly had, then the only point of chemical weapons is to cause civilian casualties.

Explains where the suits first came from.

Food for thought.

Explains how the 17 million survived?
Food for thought?

Makes sense, but we know that not all the initial survivors were military. The codex for Quarian government (or is it military? one of them) says there weren't many constables to police the population when they first fled from the Geth. Their military tactics evolved accordingly, acting more like a police force aboard the fleet.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
What evidence do we have for the Quarians being "well-prepared" for a chemical attack?

The fact that they're a futuristic, technological society.  If Britain can do it in the late 1930s, the quarians can do it even better.

Britain was expecting the war and the resulting chemical attacks for a while. The Quarians were not.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
What evidence do we have for the Quarians being "well-prepared" for a chemical attack?

The fact that they're a futuristic, technological society.  If Britain can do it in the late 1930s, the quarians can do it even better.

Britain was expecting the war and the resulting chemical attacks for a while. The Quarians were not.

Would help explain why only 17 million out of billions survived now wouldn't it?

[KingZayd]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Yes, and where were the combatants holed up? Did they keep themselves away from the civillians? What makes you think the civillians were targeted?

Because of the enormous death rate.  I get the concept of collateral damage, but you don't exterminate over 99% of a huge population of sapients by accident.

Besides, the geth are the villains in ME games.  They were the goons in ME1, they were a supporting cast of  villains in ME2, and they're working with the Reapers again in ME3.  Is is so hard to believe that they're the bad guys, when they've been the bad guys for the whole trilogy?

You do if you're using a weapon that kills everyone just the same.. chemical weapons for example.

I think you're overestimating the effectiveness of chemical weapons against a well-prepared adversary.  In fact, given proper NBC precautions, which the quarians almost certainly had, then the only point of chemical weapons is to cause civilian casualties.

Explains where the suits first came from.

Food for thought.

Explains how the 17 million survived?
Food for thought?

Makes sense, but we know that not all the initial survivors were military. The codex for Quarian government (or is it military? one of them) says there weren't many constables to police the population when they first fled from the Geth.

Quite possible the limited supplies of protection weren't reserved exclusively for the millitary. No point fighting to protect your civillians if they're all dead.

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
What evidence do we have for the Quarians being "well-prepared" for a chemical attack?

The fact that they're a futuristic, technological society.  If Britain can do it in the late 1930s, the quarians can do it even better.

Britain was expecting the war and the resulting chemical attacks for a while. The Quarians were not.

Would help explain why only 17 million out of billions survived now wouldn't it?

I think that makes sense.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Am I the only one who actually wishes we had the actual details of the Morning War? I feel like the fact that we're all guessing is a big part of the reason for the differing opinions.

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
Britain was expecting the war and the resulting chemical attacks for a while. The Quarians were not.

Doesn't matter.  Those sorts of things can be set up rather quickly, just as they were during the Great War.  Moreover, we already know that the quarians had extensive experience with their envirosuits prior to the Morning War, which makes sense for a spaceflight society.  In fact, aren't the quarians we see in the geth memories suited?

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Britain was expecting the war and the resulting chemical attacks for a while. The Quarians were not.

Doesn't matter.  Those sorts of things can be set up rather quickly, just as they were during the Great War.  Moreover, we already know that the quarians had extensive experience with their envirosuits prior to the Morning War, which makes sense for a spaceflight society.  In fact, aren't the quarians we see in the geth memories suited?

Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Legion explains why we see them as suited.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[goose2989]

Pantanplan wrote...

I choose peace everytime in Rannoch, and I like Legion's character, but you can't deny the fact that the geth slaughtered billions of innocents. They are presented as innocent and looking for guidance, and that the quarians are 100% responsible, but really, only 17 million quarians were left after the Morning War. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies such slaughter. To all of you who support the geth and Legion's version of their history: how are the geth innocent and lost children, while the quarians the aggressive instigators who deserve genocide?
Beforethe Reaper code upload the geth were indvidual VI-like programs who only gained intelligence by grouping together. The quarians have families, children, civilians while the geth have none of this. When peace isn't an option, why do some save the geth and let the quarians die?

I am completely with you OP.

[justafan]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Am I the only one who actually wishes we had the actual details of the Morning War? I feel like the fact that we're all guessing is a big part of the reason for the differing opinions.

Agreed, the vagueness is the reason the Morning War can sustain two threads of hundreds of posts at the same time.

If they did clarify it we wouldn't have all this fun speculating 

Modifié par justafan, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:27 .

[DeinonSlayer]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Am I the only one who actually wishes we had the actual details of the Morning War? I feel like the fact that we're all guessing is a big part of the reason for the differing opinions.

*raises hand*

Though if I remember correctly, a writer who came on here and commented on the subject once said that they deliberately obfuscated the history there so as to promote debate.

Speculations, and all. They're not limited to the last ten minutes.

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Am I the only one who actually wishes we had the actual details of the Morning War? I feel like the fact that we're all guessing is a big part of the reason for the differing opinions.

Agreed, the vagueness is the reason the Morning War can sustain two threads of hundreds of posts at the same time.

But if they did clarify it we wouldn't have all this fun arguing 

exactly.

It's been interesting trying to figure out exactly what happened. It's a bit annoying that we can't be sure though..

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

[DeinonSlayer]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

Uh... because suits were limited and the ones without suits would have been vulnerable to the chemical attacks?

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

They didn't necessarily. Those are the ones that survived.

[sw04ca]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

Uh... because suits were limited and the ones without suits would have been vulnerable to the chemical attacks?

That's not the question.  The question is how did the geth kill those who were wearing the suits.

Also, remember that the quarians are a spacefaring race familiar with Mass Effect technology.  Armoured spacesuits aren't super rare, and seem like they're something that isn't uncommon in the wider galaxy.

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
They didn't necessarily. Those are the ones that survived.

They definitely did.  Otherwise, the war doesn't last anywhere close to a year.

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

Uh... because suits were limited and the ones without suits would have been vulnerable to the chemical attacks?

That's not the question.  The question is how did the geth kill those who were wearing the suits.

Also, remember that the quarians are a spacefaring race familiar with Mass Effect technology.  Armoured spacesuits aren't super rare, and seem like they're something that isn't uncommon in the wider galaxy.

What makes you think the ones wearing the suits died?
But okay lets say some Quarians were wearing the suits and were still fighting. Then I guess with bullets and explosives that would have compromised the integrity of said suits.

[sw04ca]

I'll come back later. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
They didn't necessarily. Those are the ones that survived.

They definitely did.  Otherwise, the war doesn't last anywhere close to a year.

And do we know the Geth  started using chemical weapons from the very beginning? They weren't very intelligent to begin with and they were still learning.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
What makes you think the ones wearing the suits died?
But okay lets say some Quarians were wearing the suits and were still fighting. Then I guess with bullets and explosives that would have compromised the integrity of said suits.

And then they kill the civilians.  We know from Eden Prime that geth do that sort of thing.

[DeinonSlayer]

sw04ca wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Which is why at least 17 million units were created. Nowhere near enough for everyone though.

The war was over within a year wasn't it?

Now we're getting somewhere.  So, we're agreed that the quarians would have had some protection from chemical weapons, and that both civilians and soldiers would have enjoyed that protection.  So, how did the geth manage to kill those who were protected?

Uh... because suits were limited and the ones without suits would have been vulnerable to the chemical attacks?

That's not the question.  The question is how did the geth kill those who were wearing the suits.

Also, remember that the quarians are a spacefaring race familiar with Mass Effect technology.  Armoured spacesuits aren't super rare, and seem like they're something that isn't uncommon in the wider galaxy.

Guns. Lots of guns. The codex (entry on Heretics) says they'd throw thousands of mobile platforms at entrenched Quarian positions - losing them meant nothing, because they'd just download themselves into a new body.

Plus, as software, they could hypothetically take over anything run by a computer. The "technological apocalypse" Gavin Archer describes. Picture a city like Nos Astra with ten thousand air cars falling from the sky all at once.

[Col.Aurion]

I'm gonna go with the Le Cruset opinion, they were all guilty.