1059 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

JesseLee202 wrote...

I don't think pro-geth people actually understand how many "billions" is.

America has a population around 312,780,968. There are around 4.5 million people across all branches of the US Armed Service.

Loosing 99% of the total population (a much smaller number than the Quarian's) requires the death toll to include millions upon millions of civilians.

The Geth are a collective entity. Their definition of "sefl-defense" does not match that of organics. If they viewed the Quarians as a collective in the beginning, like themselves, a 99% genocide would be self-defense in their understanding. From the individual organic perspective, it is anything but.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

As I told you before, the civilian ships were already armed for defense against pirate attack long before the second war. And they weren't on ships during the Morning War. How would the same situation apply in a ground war?

Seems to me you just don't want to believe the Geth were capable of doing wrong, and will latch on to any impractical theory that puts a rifle in the hands of everyone they killed just to justify the act of killing them.

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Geth shot down anyone and anything that entered their territory for centuries, on sight, without making any communications. The question then becomes, when did they stop communicating with organics? If this happened during the war itself, it would mean that any attempt by the Quarians to surrender would have been ignored.

You can't judge the situation based on what Legion tells you. His is a new perspective gained only in the last two years. The Geth VI better represents their thought process at that time - and in the end, when it has the advantage, it offers the Quarians no quarter.

I don't think they trusted organics. Apparently they were investigating organics for a while, first through the extranet, and then through Legion. I suspect the Geth wouldn't initiate contact  without carefully analysing the best approach.

You're right. And the Geth VI says as much if you side against it: "We were right to distrust organics. Uploading the code!"

This comes right after it delivers an ultimatum, that it will help you if you let it kill off the Quarians.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[sw04ca]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Again, a baby on Rannoch can't hold a rifle

[Giantdeathrobot]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

As I told you before, the civilian ships were already armed for defense against pirate attack long before the second war. And they weren't on ships during the Morning War. How would the same situation apply in a ground war?

Seems to me you just don't want to believe the Geth were capable of doing wrong, and will latch on to any impractical theory that puts a rifle in the hands of everyone they killed just to justify the act of killing them.

The Geth are not the 'bad guys' as you are led to believe.   They were brutal yes. They might have gone too far but it's completely understandable.

[DeinonSlayer]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

As I told you before, the civilian ships were already armed for defense against pirate attack long before the second war. And they weren't on ships during the Morning War. How would the same situation apply in a ground war?

Seems to me you just don't want to believe the Geth were capable of doing wrong, and will latch on to any impractical theory that puts a rifle in the hands of everyone they killed just to justify the act of killing them.

The Geth are not the 'bad guys' as you are led to believe.   They were brutal yes. They might have gone too far but it's completely understandable.

I understand why they did it (see the top of the page). In my judgement, they did go too far, and I'm not willing to make excuses for them or pretend otherwise. The Geth should be held to account for their actions like anyone else.

I make peace when Legion makes it possible. Otherwise, I kill the Geth. I view Legion as a reformed killer who has earned a second chance. The VI is an unapologetic one.

[Giantdeathrobot]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Doesn't mean they had to add Thanix cannons to their liveships, or make the civilians the linchpin of their defense. As I have also pointed out earlier, they could very well have landed on another planet, it's not like the Council doesn't have much more important things to worry about as of now. The entire assault on Rannoch is an extraordinarily poor idea, and another reason why I have some trouble pitying the Quarians. Yeah, they suffered tremendously, but sometimes you wonder if they're not asking for it.

[justafan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Someone a little while ago went into the logistics of the Migrant Fleet (can't remember if it was you or not Deinon).  Basically, there are 3 liveships that produce the majority of the food for the fleet.  Two of the three fleets are military, Heavy and Patrol, both would be needed for the war with the Geth.  It takes thousands of ships going to and from the Liveships every day to supply the fleet with food, and by splitting the fleet in two, you would never be able to keep that system going.  Without the military fleet, wheatever civilians are left would have little to no food, and be sitting ducks for whatever pirates or reapers happen to come by.  Similarly, the military would not be able to effectively distribute the food from the liveships without the civilians.  The MIgrant Fleet has no choice but to stay together.  It's not just a cultural thing, its simple logistics.

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Someone a little while ago went into the logistics of the Migrant Fleet (can't remember if it was you or not Deinon).  Basically, there are 3 liveships that produce the majority of the food for the fleet.  Two of the three fleets are military, Heavy and Patrol, both would be needed for the war with the Geth.  It takes thousands of ships going to and from the Liveships every day to supply the fleet with food, and by splitting the fleet in two, you would never be able to keep that system going.  Without the military fleet, wheatever civilians are left would have little to no food, and be sitting ducks for whatever pirates or reapers happen to come by.  Similarly, the military would not be able to effectively distribute the food from the liveships without the civilians.  The MIgrant Fleet has no choice but to stay together.  It's not just a cultural thing, its simple logistics.

Exactly. Their mistake wasn't HOW they went to war. It's the going to war.

[DeinonSlayer]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Doesn't mean they had to add Thanix cannons to their liveships, or make the civilians the linchpin of their defense. As I have also pointed out earlier, they could very well have landed on another planet, it's not like the Council doesn't have much more important things to worry about as of now. The entire assault on Rannoch is an extraordinarily poor idea, and another reason why I have some trouble pitying the Quarians. Yeah, they suffered tremendously, but sometimes you wonder if they're not asking for it.

Landing on a planet that can't feed them has the same problems as staying out in space. Their dependency pn the liveships forces them to stay together. No Turian colony would be able or willing to accept an influx of millions of refugees with finicky diets. Rannoch is the only world they can offload their civilians on where they could expect to survive long-term in the event that the Migrant Fleet never came back for them.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:07 .

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

justafan wrote...

Someone a little while ago went into the logistics of the Migrant Fleet (can't remember if it was you or not Deinon).  Basically, there are 3 liveships that produce the majority of the food for the fleet.  Two of the three fleets are military, Heavy and Patrol, both would be needed for the war with the Geth.  It takes thousands of ships going to and from the Liveships every day to supply the fleet with food, and by splitting the fleet in two, you would never be able to keep that system going.  Without the military fleet, wheatever civilians are left would have little to no food, and be sitting ducks for whatever pirates or reapers happen to come by.  Similarly, the military would not be able to effectively distribute the food from the liveships without the civilians.  The MIgrant Fleet has no choice but to stay together.  It's not just a cultural thing, its simple logistics.

Exactly. Their mistake wasn't HOW they went to war. It's the going to war.

Look at their situation.  You stay in space and get everyone killed when the reapers show up, or you take back the homeworld so the mlitary has no baggage attached when they engage the reapers.  Gerrel tells you as much in ME2 when he was still rational.  The Quarians literally have no other place to put their civilians.  Its civilians vs. reapers, or civilians vs. Geth.  They stand a heck of a lot better chance against the Geth.

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

justafan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Considering that they were under martial law, if their attitude towards war was similar to what it is now (Arming civilian ships and **** like that) then there were no civilians any more.

But of course, that's only speculations.

Let's not forget that, too. The Quarians had absolutely no qualms attacking with their entire fleet, civilians be damned. It would not surprise that during the Morning War, as they started to lose and their armed forces were thinning, that they pressed civilians into fighting, more or less willingly. Hell, they potentially faced extinction, so mass conscription is nothing far-fetched. Still doesn't explain nor justify the death toll, but Quarian leadership has shown to absolutely lose their **** when the Geth are involved.

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Someone a little while ago went into the logistics of the Migrant Fleet (can't remember if it was you or not Deinon).  Basically, there are 3 liveships that produce the majority of the food for the fleet.  Two of the three fleets are military, Heavy and Patrol, both would be needed for the war with the Geth.  It takes thousands of ships going to and from the Liveships every day to supply the fleet with food, and by splitting the fleet in two, you would never be able to keep that system going.  Without the military fleet, wheatever civilians are left would have little to no food, and be sitting ducks for whatever pirates or reapers happen to come by.  Similarly, the military would not be able to effectively distribute the food from the liveships without the civilians.  The MIgrant Fleet has no choice but to stay together.  It's not just a cultural thing, its simple logistics.

Exactly. Their mistake wasn't HOW they went to war. It's the going to war.

Also remember they only have a few hundred dedicated military ships. Out of a fleet of 50,000 vessels. The military can't split off with a liveship without dragging a third of their civilians with them, and leaving the other two-thirds unprotected.

[Giantdeathrobot]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

You can't split the fleet and keep everyone fed at the same time. Where they go, they have no choice but to go as a whole. Most of their civilian ships were armed to begin with (anti-piracy). The Geth shot down everything entering their space for centuries, regardless of armament or intent. If they're going to be targeted anyway, they might as well be armed and able to fight back.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's the rationale. They were in a bad situation.

Doesn't mean they had to add Thanix cannons to their liveships, or make the civilians the linchpin of their defense. As I have also pointed out earlier, they could very well have landed on another planet, it's not like the Council doesn't have much more important things to worry about as of now. The entire assault on Rannoch is an extraordinarily poor idea, and another reason why I have some trouble pitying the Quarians. Yeah, they suffered tremendously, but sometimes you wonder if they're not asking for it.

Landing on a planet that can't feed them has the same problems as staying out in space. Their dependency pn the liveships forces them to stay together. No Turian colony would be able or willing to accept an influx of millions of refugees with finicky diets. Rannoch is the only world they can offload their civilians on where they could expect to survive long-term in the event that the Migrant Fleet never came back for them.

Didn't they find a suitable planet, only to be kicked out by the Council? That's not so much of a problem now. They also won't need to scuttle the Liveships or anything, keep them in orbit pumping out food. Lend a portion of the Fleet to the War Effort to gain brownie points with the Council and also try to avert the whole galactic extermination thingie. It's not a perfect scenario, but it's much smarter that starting a war with your entire fleet at rist and pushing the Geth into the Reaper's loving tentacles. Again, if Shepard hadn't bailed their asses, they would have been exterminated.

EDIT: you also won't make me believe that a galaxy of billions of planets has only one or two that can host the Quarians, or that in three centuries of searching they haven't found a replacement. Even then, it needs not be a permanent settlement; dump the Civilians on an acceptable planet, help solve the Reaper problems, use the positive fallout to help gain Rannoch back. Or attack if you really want to. Just not during the Reaper War, for christsake.

Modifié par Giantdeathrobot, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[justafan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Didn't they find a suitable planet, only to be kicked out by the Council? That's not so much of a problem now. They also won't need to scuttle the Liveships or anything, keep them in orbit pumping out food. Lend a portion of the Fleet to the War Effort to gain brownie points with the Council and also try to avert the whole galactic extermination thingie. It's not a perfect scenario, but it's much smarter that starting a war with your entire fleet at rist and pushing the Geth into the Reaper's loving tentacles. Again, if Shepard hadn't bailed their asses, they would have been exterminated.

Well, lets look at Ekuna.   A second tier habitable world with an average temperature that is below freezing and a gravity over 4 times that of Earth.  Not exactly what I'd call enticing, and it shows how desperate the Quarians were even before the reapers came to find a place to put their people.

Modifié par justafan, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

justafan wrote...

Someone a little while ago went into the logistics of the Migrant Fleet (can't remember if it was you or not Deinon).  Basically, there are 3 liveships that produce the majority of the food for the fleet.  Two of the three fleets are military, Heavy and Patrol, both would be needed for the war with the Geth.  It takes thousands of ships going to and from the Liveships every day to supply the fleet with food, and by splitting the fleet in two, you would never be able to keep that system going.  Without the military fleet, wheatever civilians are left would have little to no food, and be sitting ducks for whatever pirates or reapers happen to come by.  Similarly, the military would not be able to effectively distribute the food from the liveships without the civilians.  The MIgrant Fleet has no choice but to stay together.  It's not just a cultural thing, its simple logistics.

Exactly. Their mistake wasn't HOW they went to war. It's the going to war.

Look at their situation.  You stay in space and get everyone killed when the reapers show up, or you take back the homeworld so the mlitary has no baggage attached when they engage the reapers.  Gerrel tells you as much in ME2 when he was still rational.  The Quarians literally have no other place to put their civilians.  Its civilians vs. reapers, or civilians vs. Geth.  They stand a heck of a lot better chance against the Geth.

1 war would endanger their civillians, so clearly the solution must be 2 wars?

Tali had been in contact with Legion over the years. Why not use that connection to 
try and make some arrangements for atleast one planet to keep their civillians on?

Also, the Council races wouldn't do anything to the Quarians if their civillians were to temporarily settle on another planet. Sure it might not be as comfortable  or symbolic as Rannoch, but they'd still be able to live there in relative safety.

Also you do realise that no matter where the civillians stay, they will still be baggage as the military will still have to protect them?

[DeinonSlayer]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Landing on a planet that can't feed them has the same problems as staying out in space. Their dependency pn the liveships forces them to stay together. No Turian colony would be able or willing to accept an influx of millions of refugees with finicky diets. Rannoch is the only world they can offload their civilians on where they could expect to survive long-term in the event that the Migrant Fleet never came back for them.

Didn't they find a suitable planet, only to be kicked out by the Council? That's not so much of a problem now. They also won't need to scuttle the Liveships or anything, keep them in orbit pumping out food. Lend a portion of the Fleet to the War Effort to gain brownie points with the Council and also try to avert the whole galactic extermination thingie. It's not a perfect scenario, but it's much smarter that starting a war with your entire fleet at rist and pushing the Geth into the Reaper's loving tentacles. Again, if Shepard hadn't bailed their asses, they would have been exterminated.

EDIT: you also won't make me believe that a galaxy of billions of planets has only one or two that can host the Quarians, or that in three centuries of searching they haven't found a replacement. Even then, it needs not be a permanent settlement; dump the Civilians on an acceptable planet, help solve the Reaper problems, use the positive fallout to help gain Rannoch back. Or attack if you really want to. Just not during the Reaper War, for christsake.

Where is this miraculous unclaimed dextro planet supposed to come from? The military ships are just as dependent on the liveships as everyone else. Unless there's somewhere to put the civvies with a local food source, the liveships can't produce a surplus to stock the military ships for a long voyage. They need it all just to keep their heads above water.

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

justafan wrote...


Look at their situation.  You stay in space and get everyone killed when the reapers show up, or you take back the homeworld so the mlitary has no baggage attached when they engage the reapers.  Gerrel tells you as much in ME2 when he was still rational.  The Quarians literally have no other place to put their civilians.  Its civilians vs. reapers, or civilians vs. Geth.  They stand a heck of a lot better chance against the Geth.

1 war would endanger their civillians, so clearly the solution must be 2 wars?

Tali had been in contact with Legion over the years. Why not use that connection to 
try and make some arrangements for atleast one planet to keep their civillians on?

Also, the Council races wouldn't do anything to the Quarians if their civillians were to temporarily settle on another planet. Sure it might not be as comfortable  or symbolic as Rannoch, but they'd still be able to live there in relative safety.

Also you do realise that no matter where the civillians stay, they will still be baggage as the military will still have to protect them?

War with the Geth would allow them to engage the Reapers.  Xen's devices made victory a lot more attainable.

Tali had been in contact until Legion abruptly stopped communicating.

The Salarians were perfectly willing to backstab the Krogan and possibly open another front.  To Quote Padok Wiks "please restrain you colleague".... "Then you'll have another war on your hands commander".  And the Turians have never been all that inviting to Quarians in the first place.  Add to that the Quarians need a very specific diet tailored to the Liveships, I doubt there is any Turian world capable of sustaining 17 million refugees of that kind, or any planet capable of copying that diet other than Rannoch.

And there is a difference between having your civilians on a gigantic solid planet, versus having them all in tin cans in the vaccuum of space versus Thanix firing cuttlefish.

[Steelcan]

First of all the Turians probably have dibs on any dextro worlds.

Secondly, why was the council giving the world the quarians tried to settle to the Elcor? One is dextro the other levo. So either the world was useless to the quarians, or it was useless to the Elcor.

[mjh417]

You make an excellent point OP, and I'll admit I never really considered it, but that being said, I've earned peace between the two species (though sadly temporary since all Geth die once I choose Destroy) and that was only because and through learning to see Legion and their story as reasonable and truthful on some level.

But overall you are right, the Geth killed billions in their war of self defense. Its really not about who's right and wrong, just that the violence needs to stop because from either side its unreasonable.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'm not saying there won't be logistical problems. But it has got to beat risking your entire people at once in a war.

And again, there has got to be an acceptable planet somewhere. Not ideal ,just enough to house the civilians and, say, 2 of 3 Liveships. The third can join a Heavy Fleet task force to assist the war effort. Something like that. Out of billions of planet, surely there's one that can acceptably house them for a period of time. They've waited 300 years to retake Rannoch, they can wait a few years more.

Hell, even if they DO retake Rannoch, the Fleet is still a War Asset, meaning it's still out there fighting, not sitting around the planet. And Rannoch is not yet capable of providing them all the food they need, per Tali in ME2 their immune system needs to readapt. There's really no urgency to retake their homeworld right now, they just were short-sighted and figured they should do it immediately now that they have Xan's countermeasure and the rest of the galaxy is too busy being turned into paste to care.

[justafan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

I'm not saying there won't be logistical problems. But it has got to beat risking your entire people at once in a war.

And again, there has got to be an acceptable planet somewhere. Not ideal ,just enough to house the civilians and, say, 2 of 3 Liveships. The third can join a Heavy Fleet task force to assist the war effort. Something like that. Out of billions of planet, surely there's one that can acceptably house them for a period of time. They've waited 300 years to retake Rannoch, they can wait a few years more.

Hell, even if they DO retake Rannoch, the Fleet is still a War Asset, meaning it's still out there fighting, not sitting around the planet. And Rannoch is not yet capable of providing them all the food they need, per Tali in ME2 their immune system needs to readapt. There's really no urgency to retake their homeworld right now, they just were short-sighted and figured they should do it immediately now that they have Xan's countermeasure and the rest of the galaxy is too busy being turned into paste to care.

I think the appeal of Rannoch is that in such a war-tuned state, Rannoch is the only planet that WONT kill them outright when they through all their resources into fighting the Reapers.  It's the only planet that will be perfect for the crops they need, its ecosystem is such that the innevitable exposure won't kill a person outright, and they won't need to cannibalize the fleet to make living possible for the duration of the war.

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

justafan wrote...


Look at their situation.  You stay in space and get everyone killed when the reapers show up, or you take back the homeworld so the mlitary has no baggage attached when they engage the reapers.  Gerrel tells you as much in ME2 when he was still rational.  The Quarians literally have no other place to put their civilians.  Its civilians vs. reapers, or civilians vs. Geth.  They stand a heck of a lot better chance against the Geth.

1 war would endanger their civillians, so clearly the solution must be 2 wars?

Tali had been in contact with Legion over the years. Why not use that connection to 
try and make some arrangements for atleast one planet to keep their civillians on?

Also, the Council races wouldn't do anything to the Quarians if their civillians were to temporarily settle on another planet. Sure it might not be as comfortable  or symbolic as Rannoch, but they'd still be able to live there in relative safety.

Also you do realise that no matter where the civillians stay, they will still be baggage as the military will still have to protect them?

War with the Geth would allow them to engage the Reapers.  Xen's devices made victory a lot more attainable.

Tali had been in contact until Legion abruptly stopped communicating.

The Salarians were perfectly willing to backstab the Krogan and possibly open another front.  To Quote Padok Wiks "please restrain you colleague".... "Then you'll have another war on your hands commander".  And the Turians have never been all that inviting to Quarians in the first place.  Add to that the Quarians need a very specific diet tailored to the Liveships, I doubt there is any Turian world capable of sustaining 17 million refugees of that kind, or any planet capable of copying that diet other than Rannoch.

And there is a difference between having your civilians on a gigantic solid planet, versus having them all in tin cans in the vaccuum of space versus Thanix firing cuttlefish.

The Salarians were willing to backstab the Krogan because they figured the return of the Krogan would be dangerous for them in the long run. The Salarians were also relatively untouched by the Reapers.

The Turians would be too busy fighting for their own survival to worry about the Quarians taking a planet.

If Tali can survive on the Normandy, I don't think her dietary restrictions are quite as difficult as you seem to believe.

You do realise that having a solid planet hasn't really done much to help the other races when the Reapers attacked? Being mobile is actually more of an advantage.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:41 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

justafan wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

I'm not saying there won't be logistical problems. But it has got to beat risking your entire people at once in a war.

And again, there has got to be an acceptable planet somewhere. Not ideal ,just enough to house the civilians and, say, 2 of 3 Liveships. The third can join a Heavy Fleet task force to assist the war effort. Something like that. Out of billions of planet, surely there's one that can acceptably house them for a period of time. They've waited 300 years to retake Rannoch, they can wait a few years more.

Hell, even if they DO retake Rannoch, the Fleet is still a War Asset, meaning it's still out there fighting, not sitting around the planet. And Rannoch is not yet capable of providing them all the food they need, per Tali in ME2 their immune system needs to readapt. There's really no urgency to retake their homeworld right now, they just were short-sighted and figured they should do it immediately now that they have Xan's countermeasure and the rest of the galaxy is too busy being turned into paste to care.

I think the appeal of Rannoch is that in such a war-tuned state, Rannoch is the only planet that WONT kill them outright when they through all their resources into fighting the Reapers.  It's the only planet that will be perfect for the crops they need, its ecosystem is such that the innevitable exposure won't kill a person outright, and they won't need to cannibalize the fleet to make living possible for the duration of the war.

Meh. They still need to divide their forces in order to leave people on the planet and participate in the war effort, the planet that cannot sustain them yet. Without the Geth, it will take years before they can eat Rannoch's food directly or take off their suit.

As others have said, staying with the Fleet was probably the best idea. Having a planet doesn't mean much with the Reapers around, I mean Palaven was the most fortified planet in the galaxy and it still got trashed, not even mentionning Earth or Thessia, and any Quarian planet is altogether more vulnerable without any infrastructure. Plus, mobility is a precious advantage