1059 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

Curse you, double post <_<

Modifié par Giantdeathrobot, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:42 .

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

The Salarians were willing to backstab the Krogan because they figured the return of the Krogan would be dangerous for them.

The Turians would be too busy fighting for their own survival to worry about the Quarians taking a planet.

If Tali can survive on the Normandy, I don't think her dietary restrictions are quite as difficult as you seem to believe.

You do realise that having a solid planet hasn't really done much to help the other races when the Reapers attacked? Being mobile is actually more of an advantage.

And the Geth were any less dangerous?  This is the same species that teamed up with Sovereign and killed 99% of the Quarians.  The galaxy probably sees the geth as collectors 2.0 at best.

There is a difference between keeping a single Quarians supplied on a state of the art ship than keeping millions of refugees fed and sanitary.  The Quarians would run any colony's supply of nutrient paste dry in no time.

There are still survivors on Earth arn't there?  you can hide much better on a giant planet, and once a ship get destroyed in space, thats it for everyone aboard.  If you want to fight the reapers, you need the fleet, and if you need the fleet, you need the liveships, and with those liveships come civilians if there is nowhere else for them to go.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Steelcan wrote...

First of all the Turians probably have dibs on any dextro worlds.

Secondly, why was the council giving the world the quarians tried to settle to the Elcor? One is dextro the other levo. So either the world was useless to the quarians, or it was useless to the Elcor.

The Council said the Quarians did not file the proper documents and ask the proper permission before settling. Thus gave it to the Elcor, and told the Quarians to leave. The Quarians refused, then the Council threatened war, and the Quarians left.

Basically this left them with no choice but to try and take back Rannoch or take their civilian population into battle against the Reapers. Caught between a rock and a hard place.

I still have to ask the Geth question -- they can use any system in the galaxy. Why that system? Why build their structure there? oh because... war.... yes.... must be idiots like creators.

Now some of this next part is going to depend upon your character's psych profile, and I really hope you guys role play your Shepard's profile....

* Who is Shepard to judge? Who is the Butcher of Torfan to judge the Quarians? Who is the one who killed 300,000 Batarians to judge either side? War hero? You still carry baggage of the 300,000. Sole survivor? You can hear the screams of the Quarians dying on their home world, probably where you are standing. And you also carry the baggage of the 300,000. Who are you to judge?

I think the choice is going to come down to: Peace, or failing that, you're going to follow your orders.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:59 .

[DeinonSlayer]

If they stay in space, their dependency on the liveships forces them to stay together. If the Reapers find them in space, they're dead. The Reapers would do what they have always done - what they have their Geth thralls do. Block Relay access, and attrit them down to nothing. The Quarians could try to fight them, but they'd lose. They could run out-system, but they'd just run out of fuel without getting anywhere and inevitably get picked off.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:48 .

[justafan]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

justafan wrote...

I think the appeal of Rannoch is that in such a war-tuned state, Rannoch is the only planet that WONT kill them outright when they through all their resources into fighting the Reapers.  It's the only planet that will be perfect for the crops they need, its ecosystem is such that the innevitable exposure won't kill a person outright, and they won't need to cannibalize the fleet to make living possible for the duration of the war.

Meh. They still need to divide their forces in order to leave people on the planet and participate in the war effort, the planet that cannot sustain them yet. Without the Geth, it will take years before they can eat Rannoch's food directly or take off their suit.

As others have said, staying with the Fleet was probably the best idea. Having a planet doesn't mean much with the Reapers around, I mean Palaven was the most fortified planet in the galaxy and it still got trashed, not even mentionning Earth or Thessia, and any Quarian planet is altogether more vulnerable without any infrastructure. Plus, mobility is a precious advantage

It's still a better situation than the alternatives.  The fleet still would need to supply, the Quarians are not entirely self sufficient.  Not to mention the Migrant Fleet is already in a terrible state.  Keep in mind that the fleet has 70 year max before it all but rusts to death.

[justafan]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

First of all the Turians probably have dibs on any dextro worlds.

Secondly, why was the council giving the world the quarians tried to settle to the Elcor? One is dextro the other levo. So either the world was useless to the quarians, or it was useless to the Elcor.

The Council said the Quarians did not file the proper documents and ask the proper permission before settling. Thus gave it to the Elcor, and told the Quarians to leave. The Quarians refused, then the Council threatened war, and the Quarians left.

The Quarians did file the paperwork.  It's just that a few settlers jumped the gun. The Council used that as an excuse to threaten orbital bombardment and then gave it to the Elcor as an afterthought to save face.

Modifié par justafan, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:48 .

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Salarians were willing to backstab the Krogan because they figured the return of the Krogan would be dangerous for them.

The Turians would be too busy fighting for their own survival to worry about the Quarians taking a planet.

If Tali can survive on the Normandy, I don't think her dietary restrictions are quite as difficult as you seem to believe.

You do realise that having a solid planet hasn't really done much to help the other races when the Reapers attacked? Being mobile is actually more of an advantage.

And the Geth were any less dangerous?  This is the same species that teamed up with Sovereign and killed 99% of the Quarians.  The galaxy probably sees the geth as collectors 2.0 at best.

There is a difference between keeping a single Quarians supplied on a state of the art ship than keeping millions of refugees fed and sanitary.  The Quarians would run any colony's supply of nutrient paste dry in no time.

There are still survivors on Earth arn't there?  you can hide much better on a giant planet, and once a ship get destroyed in space, thats it for everyone aboard.  If you want to fight the reapers, you need the fleet, and if you need the fleet, you need the liveships, and with those liveships come civilians if there is nowhere else for them to go.

Using that logic, the Humans are as viable a target. The same species that exploited the threat of the Reapers to conduct horrific experiments, AND to rob those seeking shelter. And that's only one example from recent events.

Creating more of that state of the art tech is probably cheaper than an extra war.

There are, and how much hope did they have without a Crucible (which the Quarians weren't counting on?) basically zero.

You can hide much better mobile in the big wide open space that is Space, than you can on a planet with a known position.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

Using that logic, the Humans are as viable a target. The same species that exploited the threat of the Reapers to conduct horrific experiments, AND to rob those seeking shelter. And that's only one example from recent events.

Creating more of that state of the art tech is probably cheaper than an extra war.

There are, and how much hope did they have without a Crucible (which the Quarians weren't counting on?) basically zero.

You can hide much better mobile in the big wide open space that is Space, than you can on a planet with a known position.

You're talking about Cerberus, and they never helped the reapers (until the very end).  The Heretics openly sided with the Reapers without indoctrination, and the Orthodox geth were complacent.  Not to mention the Heretics could still be alive and part of the greater geth consensus.

And how would they create such tech?  The Normandy costs billions of credits, and the Quarians have no industrial capacity or natural resources.  You need a planet for that remember.

As for staying in the fleet.  You either use the fleet and fight, or you run and hide.  In the former case, you need a place to keep the civilians or risk them getting all killed by reaper lasers.  In the latter case, you then either get found and slaughtered, or you slowly die when life support fails and there is nowhere to resupply or refuel.

Modifié par justafan, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Using that logic, the Humans are as viable a target. The same species that exploited the threat of the Reapers to conduct horrific experiments, AND to rob those seeking shelter. And that's only one example from recent events.

Creating more of that state of the art tech is probably cheaper than an extra war.

There are, and how much hope did they have without a Crucible (which the Quarians weren't counting on?) basically zero.

You can hide much better mobile in the big wide open space that is Space, than you can on a planet with a known position.

You're talking about Cerberus, and they never helped the reapers (until the very end).  The Heretics openly sided with the Reapers without indoctrination, and the Orthodox geth were complacent.  Not to mention the Heretics could still be alive and part of the greater geth consensus.

And how would they create such tech?  The Normandy costs billions of credits, and the Quarians have no industrial capacity or natural resources.  You need a planet for that remember.

As for staying in the fleet.  You either use the fleet and fight, or you run and hide.  In the former case, you need a place to keep the civilians or risk them getting all killed by reaper lasers.  In the latter case, you then either get found and slaughtered, or you slowly die when life support fails and there is nowhere to resupply or refuel.

The Orthodox Geth were not involved in the Heretics' actions. Why is it their responsibility to moderate the others?
How'd they build the tech in the first place?They bought tons of weaponry for the wars. They can buy whatever parts they need for the food production tech. The Quarians strip mine the systems they pass through for resources.

The planet doesn't stop the civillians from getting killed by Reaper lasers, as we have seen throughout the game. No evidence that their life support will fail, and that they'll be unable to resupply or refuel. They might get found, but trying to stay hidden is their best hope for survival.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[Steelcan]

The regular geth killed any ship that came near them, regardless of armament or intent.

[justafan]

KingZayd wrote...

The Orthodox Geth were not involved in the Heretics' actions. Why is it their responsibility to moderate the others?
How'd they build the tech in the first place?They bought tons of weaponry for the wars. They can buy whatever parts they need for the food production tech. The Quarians strip mine the systems they pass through for resources.

The planet doesn't stop the civillians from getting killed by Reaper lasers, as we have seen throughout the game. No evidence that their life support will fail, and that they'll be unable to resupply or refuel. They might get found, but trying to stay hidden is their best hope for survival.

The Orthodox did nothing when their kin went out to commit galactic genocide.  At least the alliance publicly condemns cerberus.  The Orthodox Geth let the Heretics represent their species to the organic community and are somehow surprised everyone hates them.

The Quarians got all their tech for the war by raiding Korlus and kicking out the Blue Suns.  They are not using state of the art tech.  They are using repurposed scrap.  Tali may be able to make precision FTL jumps with a motherboard, circuits and eezo, but you can't really build a high tech warship with clean rooms and food processors the same way.  And you can't refuel 50,000 ships when the reapers control every known refuelling station in the galaxy.

[KingZayd]

justafan wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Orthodox Geth were not involved in the Heretics' actions. Why is it their responsibility to moderate the others?
How'd they build the tech in the first place?They bought tons of weaponry for the wars. They can buy whatever parts they need for the food production tech. The Quarians strip mine the systems they pass through for resources.

The planet doesn't stop the civillians from getting killed by Reaper lasers, as we have seen throughout the game. No evidence that their life support will fail, and that they'll be unable to resupply or refuel. They might get found, but trying to stay hidden is their best hope for survival.

The Orthodox did nothing when their kin went out to commit galactic genocide.  At least the alliance publicly condemns cerberus.  The Orthodox Geth let the Heretics represent their species to the organic community and are somehow surprised everyone hates them.

The Quarians got all their tech for the war by raiding Korlus and kicking out the Blue Suns.  They are not using state of the art tech.  They are using repurposed scrap.  Tali may be able to make precision FTL jumps with a motherboard, circuits and eezo, but you can't really build a high tech warship with clean rooms and food processors the same way.  And you can't refuel 50,000 ships when the reapers control every known refuelling station in the galaxy.

Did Organics say anything to prevent the Quarians from wiping out the Geth? Why should the Geth give more consideration to Organics than Organics give consideration to the Geth?

The extra food processors are only needed if the Quarian civillians are being dropped off on another world. From what I've seen the Reapers don't control every known refuelling station in the galaxy. If the fleet is focused on hiding, they should focus on parts that help them stay hidden.

[sw04ca]

Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

[KingZayd]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Even if you find a planet, how are you going to feed 17 million people with very specific diets?

By investing in the tech to produce that food, rather than weaponry.

Besides Tali is able to live on the Normandy, so it seems the Normandy can produce food she can eat. Suggests their diets aren't that difficult to accommodate.

[DeinonSlayer]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Even if you find a planet, how are you going to feed 17 million people with very specific diets?

They can eat the food grown on Rannoch. It takes the pressure off of the liveships, and lets them grow food which can be stockpiled on the warships which then go out to fight or provide logistical support to other species. If you read the map description of the Migrant Fleet after Priority: Rannoch, it says the civvies stay with some of the patrol fleet for protection.

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

I guess the Geth would be doing us a favour by wiping out the Quarians then, since clearly the Quarians cannot stand up to the Reapers. Clearly by destroying them, the Geth would be doing the galaxy a service?

I'm not sure how your reasoning makes sense, but I decided to trust your logic and apply it in a different way.

[136th]

sw04ca wrote...

Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

Indeed, the Geth will do anything for survival no matter how short-termed it is.
Killing them makes sure that they won't betray us again just to live a few more years.

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Even if you find a planet, how are you going to feed 17 million people with very specific diets?

By investing in the tech to produce that food, rather than weaponry.

Besides Tali is able to live on the Normandy, so it seems the Normandy can produce food she can eat. Suggests their diets aren't that difficult to accommodate.

Again, they were already armed well before the second war to defend themselves against pirate attack. Tali either brings nutrient paste with her from the fleet or has to sterilize Turian food.

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...
Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

I guess the Geth would be doing us a favour by wiping out the Quarians then, since clearly the Quarians cannot stand up to the Reapers. Clearly by destroying them, the Geth would be doing the galaxy a service?

I'm not sure how your reasoning makes sense, but I decided to trust your logic and apply it in a different way.

The quarians are organic, and so are unlikely to side with the Reapers.  It seems that the synthetic geth cannot resist obeying the Reapers.

[DeinonSlayer]

sw04ca wrote...

Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

That... doesn't make sense. I'd think the part where they sided with the Reapers multiple times is what you're trying to get at.

[sw04ca]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

That... doesn't make sense. I'd think the part where they sided with the Reapers multiple times is what you're trying to get at.

'Stand up to' in the sense of saying 'Go away, Reapers.  We don' want to participate in your crazy plans', as opposed to defeating the Reapers in combat.

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...
Actually, the quarians are doing us a favour by trying to wipe out the geth. The geth simply can not stand up to the Reapers, and so by destroying them, the quarians are doing the galaxy a service.

"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

I guess the Geth would be doing us a favour by wiping out the Quarians then, since clearly the Quarians cannot stand up to the Reapers. Clearly by destroying them, the Geth would be doing the galaxy a service?

I'm not sure how your reasoning makes sense, but I decided to trust your logic and apply it in a different way.

The quarians are organic, and so are unlikely to side with the Reapers.  It seems that the synthetic geth cannot resist obeying the Reapers.

Seems the Geth can, since not all of them did so before ME1. And the ones that didn't  only chose to do so after the Quarians started attacking them. Clearly the Quarians who caused both situations (by creating the Geth, and then backing them into a corner), are colossal liablities. They keep giving the Reapers allies.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[KingZayd]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Even if you find a planet, how are you going to feed 17 million people with very specific diets?

By investing in the tech to produce that food, rather than weaponry.

Besides Tali is able to live on the Normandy, so it seems the Normandy can produce food she can eat. Suggests their diets aren't that difficult to accommodate.

Again, they were already armed well before the second war to defend themselves against pirate attack. Tali either brings nutrient paste with her from the fleet or has to sterilize Turian food.

We hear at the start of ME3 that they invested heavily in armaments in preparation for their war to reclaim Rannoch.

Tali must bring a lot of nutrient paste then! What's wrong with sterilizing the food? It seems to work just fine, doesn't it?

[D4rkSektor]

If organics can be indoctrinated, I'd assume it'd be even easier to take control the Geth. Remember what Legion said about the Heretics in ME2?